Is Messi still the best ever?

Never was to begin with.

So, every one telling me I was romanticizing Diego Maradona and slow defenders, what now? Where do you go from here? What excuses do you keep telling yourselves? Because let me tell you, from someone who has seen them both, the gap is actually further than I initially thought it was.  

I told you all, to rank players at the end of their careers, not on their potential. Running through Getafe is an entirely different proposition to running through England's defense in the middle of a WC game. With your entire country depending on you, no less. Does this even need to be stressed??? Sadly, here, apparently!

Messi is fantastic, but he isn't Maradona... and never will be.

can't wait to see the "debate" from this thread

Haven't seen jihospi go full megalodon for a while :lotsofpopcorn:

Where have you been Vapotrini ?

Osvaldo Ardiles (teammate Maradona WC82) – "I've already said this that Messi is not only the best football player right now, but also the best football player ever in the history of football. I played with Maradona for 7 years. I thought I'd never see another player like that but I have to say Messi is better."

Cesar Menotti (coach Maradona WC82) - "Messi is the best player in the world. He's at the level of the best Maradona."

Jorge Valdano (teammate Maradona WC86) - "Messi is Maradona every day. It is June 1986 for 5 years now. The last 5 years, Messi is the Maradona of the World Cup in Mexico."

Diego Simeone (teammate Maradona Sevilla/WC94) - "Diego has filled us with emotions. But between the cracks, without doubt, Messi is better than Maradona." 

Francisco Carrasco (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "Messi is impressive, he does wonders. What he does in the last metres, Maradona couldn't do as often."

Bernd Schuster (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "Messi is the best player I have seen in my life."

Pichi Alonso (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "I played with Maradona, and Messi is a lot better, scores more, more of a team player, physically stronger..."

Julio Alberto (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "Messi is better than Diego. He's from another galaxy. Better than Pele or Maradona." 

Harmonica (fan of Maradona, and the most logical and rational human being, ever) - "I've seen Maradona at top of his game, but Messi is the better player."

Vapotrini wrote:Running through Getafe is an entirely different proposition to running through England's defense in the middle of a WC game.

Maradona @25 ran through nt-defence, which trained few times in a year. Messi @19 ran through the best defense in Spain, club-defense which trained every day. Not only that, Getafe eliminated Barcelona when Messi didn't play the 2nd leg. Not really great argument now is it?

Here's comparison of defenses in WC86 and WC14 of Belgium:



WC86 Semi-Final Argentina - Belgium 1:0 53 min, Maradona walks from the midfield unopposed to the edge of box, and full 10 seconds go by and there is still only 4 opponents under the ball. In fact you can see 5th lowest opponent actually walking the other way when Argentina starts the attack.

Never seen such defending in such supposedly "high" level in modern football.



Quite a farcry from Belgium WC14 playing 1:0 down at the same time:

Now, I would like to hear reasonable argument for Maradona, just so I can ask my pal truth and logic, is it even remotely proper one?

Soooooo...You are using 1 goal for your bias towards maradonna? Messi has done so much more. His 2010-2013 period was insane.

Harmonica, please stop posting 20.000 gif's in every topic.

Not a big fan of youtube proof, but this contains most of his best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeFKJY684bA

Uploaded end of 2013 - so his current passion and vision not even included.

Best player in the world in that period. Ever. Not the best player in the world atm.

Vapotrini wrote:I told you all, to rank players at the end of their careers

Vapotrini wrote:Messi is fantastic, but he isn't Maradona... and never will be.

Aren't you doing exactly what you said we shouldn't do?

Harmonica wrote:Osvaldo Ardiles (teammate Maradona WC82) – "I've already said this that Messi is not only the best football player right now, but also the best football player ever in the history of football. I played with Maradona for 7 years. I thought I'd never see another player like that but I have to say Messi is better."

Cesar Menotti (coach Maradona WC82) - "Messi is the best player in the world. He's at the level of the best Maradona."

Jorge Valdano (teammate Maradona WC86) - "Messi is Maradona every day. It is June 1986 for 5 years now. The last 5 years, Messi is the Maradona of the World Cup in Mexico."

Diego Simeone (teammate Maradona Sevilla/WC94) - "Diego has filled us with emotions. But between the cracks, without doubt, Messi is better than Maradona." 

Francisco Carrasco (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "Messi is impressive, he does wonders. What he does in the last metres, Maradona couldn't do as often."

Bernd Schuster (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "Messi is the best player I have seen in my life."

Pichi Alonso (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "I played with Maradona, and Messi is a lot better, scores more, more of a team player, physically stronger..."

Julio Alberto (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "Messi is better than Diego. He's from another galaxy. Better than Pele or Maradona." 

Harmonica (fan of Maradona, and the most logical and rational human being, ever) - "I've seen Maradona at top of his game, but Messi is the better player."

Vapotrini wrote:Running through Getafe is an entirely different proposition to running through England's defense in the middle of a WC game.

Maradona @25 ran through nt-defence, which trained few times in a year. Messi @19 ran through the best defense in Spain, club-defense which trained every day. Not only that, Getafe eliminated Barcelona when Messi didn't play the 2nd leg. Not really great argument now is it?

Here's comparison of defenses in WC86 and WC14 of Belgium:



WC86 Semi-Final Argentina - Belgium 1:0 53 min, Maradona walks from the midfield unopposed to the edge of box, and full 10 seconds go by and there is still only 4 opponents under the ball. In fact you can see 5th lowest opponent actually walking the other way when Argentina starts the attack.

Never seen such defending in such supposedly "high" level in modern football.



Quite a farcry from Belgium WC14 playing 1:0 down at the same time:

Now, I would like to hear reasonable argument for Maradona, just so I can ask my pal truth and logic, is it even remotely proper one?

Harmonica lmao.

Yes.

Yep

Yes.

no doubt....
now please take your pill and go back to sleeping mode again, make sure the alram does not wake you up before Messi's career ends

Cristiano Ronaldo is more complete tbh.

Fußball wrote:Cristiano Ronaldo is more complete tbh.

lol

Hate to say it but Messi has done enough to be called the best ever IMO.

Jiopsi owning vapotrini hard with those quotes from ex-maradona team-mates.
They both are basically at thesame level tbh, especially in terms of talent. But what seperates them is maradonas achievement was basically against the odds kind of stuff, which people and fans alike tend to really feel more sentimental towards (italian league, napoli, argentina, wc & EC), it also helps that el diego played in argentina with boca too making local fans all the more attached to him. Plus maradona had wc glory with argentina to put iceing on the cake. While messi is more consistent and has won more than diego generally thus making him the best club player ever but without any against the odds moments. Infact u can argue that messi had the luxury of playing in arguably the best team ever, which diego did not, plus being an underachiever in the NT colours at seniour level hasn't helped his cause either.
So, to cut the long story short, maradona was/is greater (which is basically sentiment, excitement and fasination), while messi is the better player (which logic backs tbh). Big difference there btw greater vs better.
It all depends on what values are more important to you. That being said, i choose maradona cause of those moments and emotions of against the odds stuff he made us enjoy, feelings that never go away, as nobody could deny that maradona was more exciting and more spontaneous in his presentation as opposed to the ruthlessly efficient messi.. This is my opinion.

Tbf I don't think you can compare consistency on an even playing field. If maradona had a technically gifted team, freedom from being kicked off a pitch (Edit: 1985 86 season he played 29 games and was fouled on average 13 times a game, ffs actually imagine trying to play getting fouled that often. The real number of fouls would have been bigger because he used to ride a lot of challenges in his prime), and also having decent pitches regularly, he would have ripped shit up on a weekly basis I'm fairly sure. We can talk also about other factors that go against messi but the bottom line and anyone that watched much of maradona with a logical mind knows this, is he didn't get the freedom of opportunity messi gets, that is to say he was not fed the ball as much on a consistent basis in positions to create danger and score. I mean there's really no serious way to deny that. He also had the same problem as xavi in terms of playing with chronic injuries, but his ankle instead of Achilles.

holy shit Bankz finally got an avatar

I'm sure some people will disagree with me on this, but I think a lot of us just want to be able to experience for ourselves, and be able to tell others in the future, that they witnessed the best football player of all time. It's always been like that, and I don't think it will ever change.

There's no arguing against the fact that having personally witnessed the best player of all time, in all his glory, through HD television or otherwise, is more fun and exciting than reading about them on the internet, or watching a limited amount of random clips on youtube that were salvaged from the Titanic and filmed with a high-end typewriter.

I predict that at least one "best player of all time" will emerge over the next ten to fifteen years, and I'm sure that Maradona, Pele, and other past greats will become increasingly insignificant as time passes by - because people don't care that they didn't actually watch them play. How can they compete against the fresh, shining stars of contemporary football, that have benefitted from the advancement in health and technology, and have yet to fade from peoples' memories?

It's impossible to compare players from different eras imo. The conditions they have are so different, and has a huge effect on how they develop etc.

Messi is the best attacking player I've ever seen though.

Thimmy wrote:I'm sure some people will disagree with me on this, but I think a lot of us just want to be able to experience for ourselves, and be able to tell others in the future, that they witnessed the best football player of all time. It's always been like that, and I don't think it will ever change.

There's no arguing against the fact that having personally witnessed the best player of all time, in all his glory, through HD television or otherwise, is more fun and exciting than reading about them on the internet, or watching a limited amount of random clips on youtube that were salvaged from the Titanic and filmed with a high-end typewriter.

I predict that at least one "best player of all time" will emerge over the next ten to fifteen years, and I'm sure that Maradona, Pele, and other past greats will become increasingly insignificant as time passes by - because people don't care that they didn't actually watch them play. How can they compete against the fresh, shining stars of contemporary football, that have benefitted from the advancement in health and technology, and have yet to fade from peoples' memories?

Agree with this.

Thimmy wrote:
I predict that at least one "best player of all time" will emerge over the next ten to fifteen years, and I'm sure that Maradona, Pele, and other past greats will become increasingly insignificant as time passes by - because people don't care that they didn't actually watch them play. How can they compete against the fresh, shining stars of contemporary football, that have benefitted from the advancement in health and technology, and have yet to fade from peoples' memories?

He's already here.

Nerman