Re: Morata is finished

by InteristAli Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:00 am

I've had my doubts but Morata is a big game player

by sportsczy Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:07 am

Until Morata scores 20 goals for a big club in a season, he's nothing... So far, he has 6 goals total this season. His career high was 13 last season.

He's 23 years old and will turn 24 in October. It's cool that he plays well in the bigger games mostly. But that doesn't make a good striker, let alone a great one. It just makes you a good role player.

by McAgger Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:16 am

He's got 8 goals and 8 assists this season and he had 15 goals and 7 assists last season. I'd say for a 22-23 year old it's a good return given that he doesn't play that many minutes. He's either coming off the bench or getting subbed out often when he starts.

For example he's played 2042 minutes this season in all competitions so far, per 90 that's only 22.7 matches. 8 goals and 8 assists is impressive when you look at it that way.

He needs to be trusted with more game time and his production will increase accordingly.

by McAgger Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:24 am

In 13-14 for Madrid he only played 968 minutes all season. Per 90 minutes that's roughly 11 matches and he had 9 goals and 2 assists.

In 14-15 for Juve he played 2295 minutes all season. Per 90 that's that's 25 matches. He had 15 goals and 7 assists.

Both seasons he had fantastic production given his limited minutes.

by rincon Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:35 am

No to all of that James. I don't know what kinda stats you are looking at but he has the second most minutes of Juve's strikers (after Dybala). And we play with 2 strikers.

Don't call me James wrote:He needs to be trusted with more game time and his production will increase accordingly.

Morata has been trusted 100% and played FAR more than his production warranted. He doesn't just get minutes here and there, he was our 1st choice forward the second half of last season and the first half of the current one. He started the season well, then he went 20 games in a row without scoring.

No quality forward can go 20 appereances without a goal and demand minutes or make excuses about trust. 4 of his 8 goals came in just 1 week in January. Thats his season right there, he has had 1 good week.

He was above Mandzukic and Dybala in the pecking order and he threw it away. The man clearly has talent, but he needs to get his head in the game and perform regularly. He only tends to perform well in the big matches. Then he sucks against every other team.

All he is right now is a less talented Balotelli with a clearer head. He'll be huge if he starts acting like a full time player, but right now he is not in the game and sure as hell not better than Mandzukic and Dybala.

Dybala has 2500min vs Morata's 2000min and he has 10 more goals.
Zaza with 700 minutes has 7 goals
Mandzukic has less minutes than Morata (1800) and he has 1 more goal plus better play in every way.

Those 3 deserve the spots much more than Alvaro, and Zaza desperately needs more minutes than him.

by Hapless_Hans Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:56 am

Huge game yesterday. Our defense couldn't deal with him at all, kept practically all of our defenders occupied.

Of course, looking at our performance yesterday, using the words 'defense' and 'defenders' might be a bit of a stretch Laughing

by Andrew Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:02 am

The problem with Morata is inconsistency. If he could maintain last night's levels of performance through-out the season he could become a really great center-forward.

by rincon Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:12 am

I'm fine with keeping him and letting him develop. He can turn it around and be consistent as he is still young. But not if it means playing him all the time over better strikers.

If he leaves for Madrid for 30mill its no crisis. We could invest that and improve the team. If he stays then he should stay on the bench and learn from Mandzukic.

by Andrew Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:18 am

rincon wrote:I'm fine with keeping him and letting him develop. He can turn it around and be consistent as he is still young. But not if it means playing him all the time over better strikers.

If he leaves for Madrid for 30mill its no crisis. We could invest that and improve the team. If he stays then he should stay on the bench and learn from Mandzukic.

Definitely. Until he reaches a certain level of performance and maintains it for a considerable period of time he should be behind Mandzukic in the pecking order. And as you said there will be no crisis if he leaves, same goes for Pogba if you ask me. This season taught us that with the great management we have, none is irreplaceable. Perhaps only Gigi.

by rincon Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:26 am

Pogba worries me more. He is just a monster. We'd get crazy money for him so it can work out. But its a very delicate market. Not many midfielders can replace him. How the management spend the Pogba money would be a make or break money for Juve.

Gigi, Marchisio, Bonucci and Chiellini are the most irreplaceable for me. Dybala looks like he will join that crowd as well.

by Adit Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:38 pm

What a player. I don't care how less skilled he is in link up but on effect to the game... He impacts big games as much as Benzema imo.

by Winter is Coming Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:06 am

Will be joining Pep in City according to Jamie Carragher Molenation

by halamadrid2 Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:39 am

Carragher

by BarcaLearning Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:20 pm

Seem to have improved a lot this season, reminds me of more of an impact player rather than consistent starter though, a bit like Ole Gunnar S...... how ever u spell his name Razz

by dronte Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:22 pm

Actually he was much better last season, he played a huge part in our CL run. But now he is picking up his form as well. Promising in the last few matches.

by rincon Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:18 pm

dronte wrote:Actually he was much better last season, he played a huge part in our CL run. But now he is picking up his form as well. Promising in the last few matches.

Yeah.

Adit wrote:What a player. I don't care how less skilled he is in link up but on effect to the game... He impacts big games as much as Benzema imo.

Also his link up play has basically been his only/best asset this season. His decision making and work ethic has been the issue.

by Adit Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:46 am

@Surag @Hapless_Hans @Nick09

looks like i was right. Juventus can do nothing about Morata with out striking a further deal with Real Madrid. The buy back is actually a full ownership clause and with in that period only thing Juventus can do is pray perez decides to sell Morata.

Marotta wrote:“The fact of Morata staying or not isn’t totally down to Juventus,” the director acknowledged.

“The clause? It’s the sword of Damocles hanging over the player’s stay. It was the only condition in taking him to Turin.

"First there must be an agreement between Madrid and Juventus, I can only reiterate that our choice was targeting a young promising player who has fulfilled that.

"We're proud, and we're proud of him. We'll open up a dialogue with Real Madrid as soon as possible, to keep him here with us if we can."

AND GUESS WHAT?

Morata dont even have any say in the buy back clause. He cant reject a return to Madrid, basically this is an ownership caluse.

MORATA wrote:“Next year is difficult for me because I don’t have the certainty of knowing where I’m going to be and it’s a weird situation. I’d like the buy-back situation to be sorted out as soon as possible. I’m happy where I am but I want to know where I need to buy a house, so I need to know where I’m going to be. I’m happy at Juventus but I want this to be over.”

Return to Madrid: “It’s a thing that exists and it is a real possibility because it’s in the contract, there is paperwork. I’d like it to be resolved quickly.”

wish i could dig that thread for the lulz

by Adit Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:00 am

Its time some people change their theories about buy back clause. The theory that Juventuz can sell Morata when ever they want when there is a buy back option until 2019 made absolutely no sense at all.

Also it looks like Players really dont have any say. Damn all those theories.

by rincon Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:06 am

Let Madrid buy and sell Morata then. Terrible treatment of the player, tells you something about the club.

Hope we use that money for Berardi and be much better set.

by Doc Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:23 pm

On one side of the coin, good on Adit to feel vindicated on this matter, you really fought a good fight. On the more depressing side, that is honestly unfair to Morata and I must wonder why did Juventus agree to such stipulations?!

by futbol_bill Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:31 pm

Doc wrote:On one side of the coin, good on Adit to feel vindicated on this matter, you really fought a good fight. On the more depressing side, that is honestly unfair to Morata and I must wonder why did Juventus agree to such stipulations?!

Simple the Italian clubs were practically broke and desperate to get talent on the cheap. Can't remember how many Madrid players, milan wanted, " on loan". When you don't have money, you take what you can get.

I know you guys get all emotional about players, but this is a business afterall. Madrid simply have preserved value in their asset.

by dronte Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:59 pm

I think it was clear from the very first moment if they have a buy-back clause they can activate it. This was the actual agreement, Marotta sometimes tried to downplay Madrid rumors with the Morata-has-a-say in it, but obviously RM wouldn't be that stupid to clinch such huge amounts of money on a player's mood. And I'm quite sure I've posted this before.

edit: found it one page back lmao

by Robespierre Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:01 am

I fear this thread confirms many don't follow Serie A abroad. He was average this year , yet he was great against Bayern (:

by Mr Nick09 Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:19 pm

Adit acting like he won the wwe belt lol, i never disagreed to the points you made up there. Looks like u dont remember what we were discussing abt, sit yo ass down

Its Surag that was always convinced Morata could say no and not return.

by The Demon of Carthage Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:07 pm

Robespierre wrote:I fear this thread confirms many don't follow Serie A abroad. He was average this year , yet he was great against Bayern (:

This is exactly it. I'd even go as far as to say that he was never great, just an average player with scattered and scarce moments of brilliance, massively hyped by some biased Madrid and Juventus fans. Don't want him back.

by Adit Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:29 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Adit acting like he won the wwe belt lol, i never disagreed to the points you made up there. Looks like u dont remember what we were discussing abt, sit yo ass down

Its Surag that was always convinced Morata could say no and not return.

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Adit wrote:
S wrote:Juventus have rejected a €60m offer from Liverpool for Alvaro Morata, according to Gazzetta's @carlolaudisa.

Bs

Juventus can't sell him as long as there is buy back option for real Madrid.
THat's not true Adit. We have SOLD Morata to Juventus, they are free to do anything they want, providing that we do not activate our buy back clause. He is not on loan.

So for example, they can give him a new contract, as they did, whereas if he was on loan, they couldnt have.

Buy Back Clause is just a provision that allows us in the period defined by the selling contract to come in and to put in a bid at a price defined in advance to sign the player back without any negotiation whatsoever, regardless of what Juventus was planning. It's an obligation to sell to us exclusively at a specific price.

So if they are about to sell him for 60 mil, we can step in, put 35 mil on the table and cockblock them. They wont have any choice but to disregard any other offer and to accept the offer.

No i have not read his contract details, but this is what common sense tells me.

Adit wrote:

The contract of buy back runs until 2018.

Juventus can't sell him with out permission from real before 2018 because it contradicts the first contact.

Simple as that. They can sell only if Madrid permits them ( by asking for money) or simply has to wait until the buy back period is over.

Adit wrote:The thing is he himself contradicts. He said buy back is obligation to sell at a certain price. How can the obligation to sell to us in 2018 can be kept if they sell him in 2015?

Read with that Bayern getting compensation for selling in buy back period. It all makes sense. The parent club has a say in buy back period.

Mr Nick09 wrote:
I am not contradicting myself, it's you that do not understand. There is no obligation to sell to us by a certain date.

We negotiated a buy back clause in Morata's contract for summer 2016, and summer 2017, respectively 2 and 3 years after his sell to take advantage of his development. Iirc the buy back amount for 2016 is at 30 millions, and then 35 millions for 2017. If we miss those windows juve can sell back to us at 90 millions if they want.

If we activate his clause during summer 2016 or 2017, Juve have the obligation to sell to us in accordance with the terms of sale and the amount quoted. For all we care Morata is a juventus player and they can keep him. We only have that clause if he is developping faster than expected and we feel we can use him.

This is the reason why 1) there is so much talk in the italian press about how Morata has the final word as he might not agree to be bought back, can refuse the move, Juve know they have no say; 2) There have been talks of Juve paying us a fee to get rid of the clause as we can block any sale they attempt in the next two years. they have a limited earning potential on any sale in that timeframe.

if pool have 60 mil to spend on him, we step him, buy him back at 30 mil, make a 30 mil profit. Juve are left holding their dicks. Between what they paid for him and what they got back, 30 mil -18 mil = 12 mil they made on him - wages. As for us, 18 mil + 60 mil - 30mil = 48 mil and no wages. Flo laughing in his office

Adit wrote:
Thing in bold. Isn't that I have been saying from the start?

That juventus can't sell him with out Real's permission during the buy back period.

If you are saying we can only block by bidding then you are wrong. Regardless of the bid they will have to compensate us during those period, because that is why there is certain dates in contracts.

Mr Nick09 wrote:
they did not need our permission to offer him a better contract, they dont need our permission to sell him.

I am in fact saying that we can only block any sale by bidding ourselves and using that clause. They dont have to compensate us at all, in the event of a sale, they would negotiate something with us, solely because of the fact we can step in (unless it's written in the terms of sale as for Martial's that we stand to make a profit in case of a sale)

All that has been reported is that we have a buy back clause for two summers, 2016 and 2017. We can speculate as for the rest but we dont know. What i explained above is simply how buy backs work

Adit wrote:

Your theory that there is no date constraints for selling has two problems.

1.We sold Morata in 2014 July.
2.We have buy back in 2016 and 2017

Now if Real Had no say in time period of transfer of Morata Juventus could easily sell him in 2015 summer when Real has no buy back option. Err That doesnt make sense does it?

Real has agreed a contract until 2017 means that upto that year Juventus can only sell if they can compensate Real Madrid.

Now Your second theory that Juventus will compensate Real just to stop their bidding.

Why should they do that when they can convince player to reject Madrid's offer?. See, if City offer Juventus 60 million and morata wants to go why should they pay Madrid any compensation when the player himself will reject.

Only way the compensation works is when the parent club has some kind of leverage on the transfer and in this case the transfer contract with the parent club for certain duration.

Last post lol

Yeah what ever. Still thinks your theory that Juventus can sell him when ever they wants holds water? Laughing

they should have done it in 2015 when there was no buy back clause then rofl

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