Re: LA DECIMMAAAAAA REAL MADRID 4-1 ATLETICO

by RealGunner Thu May 01, 2014 12:15 pm

Illarra is more of a CM than a DLP. Closer to Koke/Modric than to Alonso/Pirlo.

In any case that doesn't matter. Carlo needs to use the last 3 matches in La Liga to find that right balance for the final.

by halamadrid2 Thu May 01, 2014 2:14 pm

We struggled at the start of the season because we couldn't find the right balance. Imagine having to start Khedira-Illarra-Modric/Isco together. It was never going to work, Khedira is too slow and can't pass a ball, Illarra does alot of sideways and backpasses with Khedira and Pepe around him that was never going to work. Alonso came in and the ball never stayed in the midfield, the moment he got it he sent it straight to our wingers (kind of like under Mou) and the moment we met a good team that kept the ball we got exposed. Fast forward and Illarra has looked solid in his appearances in place of Alonso but the problem is none of the teams have been big teams so we don't know how he will look then. The only big team he played in Alonso's position was against Barca in the second half and he did absolutely fantastic

His movement is great and he participates in our attacks something Alonso never does and his ball retention is just brilliant. The only thing he lacks that Alonso has are those long pinpointing balls (frankly with Ramos in our backline I don't think we are in desperate need of that) and leadership ability apart from those he is just as good or better than Alonso in some aspects especially when players press him, he gets out of those situations very well

Atleti are going to sit back and send long balls like they usually do against us and as long as Coentrao is focused and doesn't get into fights with Raul Garcia this should be our game to lose. We used to defend with nearly no players and Atleti only managed one or 2 goals in 4 games while we have scored 7. Simeone is also tactically not very flexible so he will play the usual way with no plan b if we score first. If we manage to keep them from scoring going into half time it's going to be very hard for them because they usually get tired around the 60th minute

by Freeza Thu May 01, 2014 2:56 pm

Illarra is much better to have in midfield than Alonso against Atletico, he is more suited to our style, when we are going to be pressed and have about 60% of the ball. Alonso is def the best we have, when we are going to play on the counter against possession teams. Illarra is better at defending, his ball retention and tackling is much better than Alonso's. He's also more physical, in term of agility and speed which helps him significantly against a team like Atletico. Ilarra is also great at reading the game. Alonso is in my opinion only superior to Ilarra in leadership and long passing.
The average simpleton football fan has some sort of hate for Illarra, due to him not playing the spectacular long pass. Which is why the popularity of Khedira amazes me, since he doesn't have ANY strength other than Stamina, he can't read the game, he can barely pass, and his agility and accelleration is non existant.

by FalcaoPunch Thu May 01, 2014 3:03 pm

Freeza wrote:Illarra is much better to have in midfield than Alonso against Atletico, he is more suited to our style, when we are going to be pressed and have about 60% of the ball. Alonso is def the best we have, when we are going to play on the counter against possession teams. Illarra is better at defending, his ball retention and tackling is much better than Alonso's. He's also more physical, in term of agility and speed which helps him significantly against a team like Atletico. Ilarra is also great at reading the game. Alonso is in my opinion only superior to Ilarra in leadership and long passing.
The average simpleton football fan has some sort of hate for Illarra, due to him not playing the spectacular long pass. Which is why the popularity of Khedira amazes me, since he doesn't have ANY strength other than Stamina, he can't read the game, he can barely pass, and his agility and accelleration is non existant.

Illara better on paper but ever since that BVB performance I'm a bit weary of how he'll do against Atletico in a final they'll want to win just as much if not more than us.

by halamadrid2 Thu May 01, 2014 4:26 pm

Did anyone play good that game??? Even Pepe who has been hands down our most consistent performer this season had a stinker in the first half. before gifting them the first goal we were just passing the ball around, then both Illarra and Pepe made those two unforced errors that blew life into Dortmund and they could've score 3 or 4 more goals after that if it wasn't for Mikithariyan

I agree with everything Freeza said and didn't we buy Illarra to REPLACE Alonso?? What's with the sudden pessimism???? I have full confidence he will be great and a CL final is exactly what he needs, perhaps it could be where Alonso hands the torch to him similar to the Iker case hmm

by Rebaño Sagrado Thu May 01, 2014 5:13 pm

Freeza wrote:Illarra is much better to have in midfield than Alonso against Atletico, he is more suited to our style, when we are going to be pressed and have about 60% of the ball. Alonso is def the best we have, when we are going to play on the counter against possession teams. Illarra is better at defending, his ball retention and tackling is much better than Alonso's. He's also more physical, in term of agility and speed which helps him significantly against a team like Atletico. Ilarra is also great at reading the game. Alonso is in my opinion only superior to Ilarra in leadership and long passing.
The average simpleton football fan has some sort of hate for Illarra, due to him not playing the spectacular long pass. Which is why the popularity of Khedira amazes me, since he doesn't have ANY strength other than Stamina, he can't read the game, he can barely pass, and his agility and accelleration is non existant.

Ma man

by Le Samourai Thu May 01, 2014 7:31 pm

You guys underestimate the value of experience.

There are a bunch of footballing reasons why Alonso is slightly better for the game. It's a bit of a joke, but the fact is, he knows how to handle a referee. They respect him and for it he usually gets an extra tackle or two.

But the more important thing is he's very willing to put his body on the line and is accustomed to physical play. He's not going to be affected by Diego Costa clipping his heels or the Atletico mids bracing him every now and again.

I'm indifferent to Illara. I like him, but I think there were better people out there, or at least better fits. I'm especially not sure how he will respond to pressure of the occasion and Atletico's annoying physical play.

But if the other option is Khedira...then yea, he's our best bet.

by chad4401 Thu May 01, 2014 9:04 pm

how long do you guys plan to hold that mistake against illarra? if that was isco half of you wouldn't even mention it or care, illarra recovers faster and defends better than xabi, he simply lacks experience stop acting like he is a scrub, i think he can handle the game but the lack of confidence being shown in madrid (marca polls) won't help him step up to the plate, if its not him then khedira who just came back from injury, and we can't use casemiro even tho he is alright carlo clearly doesn't trust him, so more are likely its gonna be illarra, ain't no way in hell a di maria-isco-modric is playing in the final Laughing

by Zealous Fri May 02, 2014 6:56 am

If Sami is fit I would start him.

Having said that Illarra is not a bad option to have.

by Adit Fri May 02, 2014 8:43 am

Zealous wrote:If Sami is fit I would start him.

Having said that Illarra is not a bad option to have.

No he doesnt deserve to start. Him not playing is actually one of the big reason we are in the finals Laughing

by halamadrid2 Fri May 02, 2014 9:03 am

Adit wrote:
Zealous wrote:If Sami is fit I would start him.

Having said that Illarra is not a bad option to have.

No he doesnt deserve to start. Him not playing is actually one of the big reason we are in the finals

This lmao

I have enjoyed seing good passers in the midfield, Khedira is going to ruin all that

by Valkyrja Fri May 02, 2014 9:48 am

We were playing better even b4 Sami got injured u pos. stop acting like he's a scrub.

by Mamad Fri May 02, 2014 9:54 am

He's no scurb and is very good at what he does but our midfield is better without him. changing Di Maria's position and Khedira's absence was the key for us.

i really like the guy but he has no place in starting 11 when everybody is fit. and now that Xabi is suspended Illara is a better option for that position.

by halamadrid2 Fri May 02, 2014 10:23 am

Valkyrja wrote:We were playing better even b4 Sami got injured u pos. stop acting like he's a scrub.

He is not a scrub no. He has his qualities such as Stamina et al but he is a b2b without posessing any qualities of a b2b apart from joining in the attack sometimes. He is great but not for our team unfortunately, He would do brilliant in Chelsea next to Matic who is more mobile than Alonso. But if he is willing to stay but be on the bench most times then that's just better because we wouldn't need to buy a replacement. The reason I don't think Khedira should start is the same reason I don't want Vidal, although Vidal scores alot he has the same deficiencies as Khedira(some more as well) and would not fit into our team.

Our midfield is good as it is, we just need to replace Alonso with Illarra and we are set for next season. There is no better game to test Illarra in that midfield role against Atleti who press alot in a CL final, absolutely perfect test for him to showcase his qualities and show that he is ready to start. I agree with LeSam though, Illarra isn't as experienced as Alonso against physical teams but I disagree with the notion that Alonso puts his body on the line and not Illarra, both do it, both read the game excellently and are the ideal CDMs this team should have. We should have patience and let him flourish

by Zealous Fri May 02, 2014 3:02 pm

Adit wrote:
Zealous wrote:If Sami is fit I would start him.

Having said that Illarra is not a bad option to have.

No he doesnt deserve to start. Him not playing is actually one of the big reason we are in the finals

There is literally no way that you can prove this lol

I trust Sami against Atleti btw. He isn't scared of them when they get physical and he definitely can run just as much as they can.

My fear is that against Atleti, Modric and Di Maria will get overwhelmed like they did at the Calderon in the league. Plus Sami has always played well against Atletico.

by Onyx Fri May 02, 2014 3:39 pm

Yeh got a feeling that could happen with Modric and Di Maria. Only thing is where would Khedira play? Would he play RCM and Modric moves to Alonso's position? Not sure whether that would work.

by Zealous Fri May 02, 2014 7:13 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Yeh got a feeling that could happen with Modric and Di Maria. Only thing is where would Khedira play? Would he play RCM and Modric moves to Alonso's position? Not sure whether that would work.

Maybe something like this;

--------------Iker----------------
Dani---Pepe----Ramos---Coentrao/Marcelo
Bale-----Sami-----Modric----Di Maria/Isco
--------Benzema------Ronaldo-------

I'm not saying Sami HAS to play btw, just that he is an option if he can regain his fitness (not a given).

Our other options are Isco, Casemiro and Illarra. If we want to continue using the 4-4-2 then Casemiro would be the natural choice.

Illarra is at his best in a 4-3-3 imo, something like this

----------------Iker-------------------
Dani------Pepe---Ramos--Coentrao/Marcelo
----------------Illarra------------------
---------Modric-------Isco/Di Maria------
Bale------------------------Ronaldo-----
-------------Benzema-------------------

Atleti are going to want to make this game a scrappy affair. It's important for us to keep calm and let our quality shine through, this is why I think Sami is an option. He's a naturally calm influence on the team.

by sportsczy Fri May 02, 2014 7:35 pm

There is zero chance Casemiro gets any consideration and rightfully so... what is this Morata and Casemiro obssession around these parts?

by Zealous Fri May 02, 2014 7:50 pm

I wouldn't say it's an obsession lol

They both have good qualities despite being so young. Casemiro put in a great shift against Dortmund for example when our backs were against the wall.

I'm not saying they should start either, if anything it's justification for starting Sami if he's at 100% so we wouldn't have to play a rookie in a CL final.

I think Illarra is capable of doing a good job btw but his best games have come in a 4-3-3 formation and I'm not sure we should look to altering our 4-4-2 atm.

by Onyx Fri May 02, 2014 7:54 pm

We still play a 4-3-3 imo, it's just when we're defending it's a 4-4-2.

by Onyx Sat May 03, 2014 8:09 pm

Ancelotti on Alonso/Illarramendi:

Replacement for Alonso in the Champions League final

“The most obvious replacement is Illarra because he has that ability and habit of playing in that position. The candidate is Illarra, but we’re going to appeal against Xabi Alonso’s card and we hope they’ll withdraw it.”

http://www.realmadrid.com/en/news/2014/05/ancelotti-well-fight-to-the-end-for-the-liga

by halamadrid2 Sun May 04, 2014 10:54 am

Yohan Modric wrote:We still play a 4-3-3 imo, it's just when we're defending it's a 4-4-2.

This, and this is how it should have been for the entire season not just now

If Valencia were unsuccessful in getting Paco's weird yellow card rescinded how do they think we will??? it doesn't hurt to try I suppose

by terrance511 Sun May 04, 2014 2:40 pm

illara as replacement is not that bad, his mobility will come in handy against tight def and high energy team like athetico.

just afraid he will choke in big match.

if not isco should be next candidate

not casem or khedira.

by raulmadrid4vr Sun May 04, 2014 6:53 pm

I just dont see Atletico beating us. I am pretty sure we will win the treble.

by Onyx Thu May 08, 2014 5:14 am

Real Madrid defensive midfielder, Xabi Alonso will miss the Champions League final against Atletico Madrid on 24th May, after his appeal over a ban due to yellow card accumulation was denied by UEFA.

Alonso was booked for the 3rd time in Real Madrid’s 2nd leg Champions League semi-final rout over Bayern Munich, which will ban the playmaker from the Derby final.

UEFA’s Control and Disciplinary Body upheld the ban, as they felt the appeal was inadmissable.

Real Madrid’s next, and only, course of action is to lodge an appeal with the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), just as they did when Cristiano Ronaldo was handed a four-match ban for head-butting Ander Iturraspe several months ago.

It will be CAS who have the final say and quite possibly hold Real Madrid’s Champions League fate in their hands.

http://www.insidespanishfootball.com/107289/cristiano-ronaldo-injury-fears-return-in-valladolid/

by Nedved Thu May 08, 2014 10:57 pm

Ancelloti says team is a bit exhausted Mentally. I hope the players pick themselves up for the CL Final. Ancelloti has lot of talking to do to the team.

It will be an extremely physical game - like it or not. We need the midfield to be combative otherwise they can easily overrun Modric & Illara. Honestly I wouldn't play Khedira against less physical teams but in this one - HELL Yes. I will play him or Casemiro in 4-4-2.

--------------Iker----------------
Dani---Pepe----Ramos---Coentrao
Bale-----Sami/Casemiro-----Modric----Di Maria
--------Benzema------Ronaldo

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