Re: Roma vs Milan

by M99 Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:57 pm

Oh wow Taarabt...

by Kaladin Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:57 pm

These chances ffs

by M99 Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:03 pm

Pjanic nearly scored again.

by Kaladin Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:07 pm

Awful awful night for Balo, nothing going right for him

by M99 Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:09 pm

They are toying with us ffs.

by Kaladin Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:09 pm

Dida?

by M99 Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:10 pm

Gervinho scores 2-0. What a horror show this has been. Absolutely depressing.

by •MilanDevil• Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:27 pm

Kaka and Balotelli have been terrible in this game.

by M99 Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:30 pm

Taarabt's finishing :facepalm:

by •MilanDevil• Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:32 pm

If Kaka stays next season, he should play no more than once every 5 games.

by Kaladin Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:35 pm

I have a feeling that if Seedorf doesn't meet the management's requirement of getting EL, he'll get sacked

by Kaladin Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:39 pm

Hopefully the team will play better against Inter as i'll be attending hmm

by M99 Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:39 pm

FT 2-0.

Glad that the game is over. That was horrible.

Pls go with your streak ES.

by Arquitecto Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:11 pm

Not bothered by this loss at all. We knew that Roma in the cauldron of fire that is Olimpico would most definitely end our wonderful 5 game winning streak as this will provide reflection on what is needed to improve in order to prepare for next year, if not Derby della Madonnina.

Roma quite simply were and are too strong for us, our squad selection definitely could have been superior yet losing in this fashion has me no complaints aside from pointing out room for improvement.

-Honda CANNOT play on this wide right role. Get it through your head Seedorf as it costs' our right flank and Kaka's play.
-This peek-a-boo flash system of switching Muntari for Essien vice versa is small time thinking and does not do anything for a pivot that does not suit Montolivo
-Constant should not be playing in big games, no matter how handsome he is.
-Rami is a wall. Very proud of him.
-Bonera starting over Abate is just embarrassing. Not even hindsight.

by Rossonero23 Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:25 am

honda....cannnot....play. he should be benched, i'd rather see robinho out there. hell, even birsa!!!!
worst number 10 in ac milan history!!!

by Forza Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:42 am

I am bothered by this loss. Out team used to lift for big games, but now we've become whipping boys. We have no style and not much substance either. Sure, Roma is a great team this season, but seeing Milan like this is just sad.

* I know the 4-2-3-1 is progressive thinking for a Serie A team because of the inclusion of wide players, but the fact is that our wide players are not good enough to take advantage of the system.

* Nor can we rely on Balotelli as a consistent source of goals IF he plays as a lone striker.

* I am also of the opinion that the pivot in the 4-2-3-1 must include 2 DMs a la Chelsea in order for the team to be defensively solid, especially with our leaky defence.

* It is incredibly unfortunate that De Sciglio has been out for so much of this season because he makes a huge difference.

* As Arq said, Bonera over Abate is poor from Seedorf.

* Essien & Constant are of no use to Milan.

* We need a quality replacement for Abbiati.

I'm not going to sit here and just whine about the problems though. I think that we could solve these issues simply by giving our players an opportunity to play in their natural positions: E.g. not Bonera at RB, Honda at RAM, Balo as the lone striker. I think the 4-2-3-1 has forced many square pegs into round holes - too many for the team to compete at its full potential. I know our squad is not the best at the moment, but we should be better than what we showed against Roma.

The other thing is that our midfield struggles to maintain possession with the only players looking to hold onto the ball being those in the pivot. The wingers and Kaka are far too one dimensional and predictable in the current set-up - you know they are just going to go straight forward as soon as they receive the ball. Muntari & Montolivo got dominated by Pjanic, De Rossi and Nainggolan. Dominated. It was 2 vs 3 in midfield because Honda and Taarabt pretty much play as wide forwards and Kaka doesn't have the stamina to drop back often enough. Ok, so you can move one of our WBs up into midfield to try and remedy this, but so can Roma - and they did. And even then, it's not as if our WBs provide any quality moving forward either. Once again, Bonera at RB is a decision I just don't understand.

Kaka cannot be relied upon to back-up match after match and provide a spark every game. Sadly, he's past his prime and his role should really be limited to a super-sub from now on. We all know he's probably off to the MLS sometime soon, so we need some longer-term thinking here.

Taarabt is easily the better wide player over Honda and as soon as SES comes back, Taarabt is going to either be dropped to the bench or switch wings and take Honda's place because SES, unlike Taarabt, puts in a Herculean defensive effort on that wing whilst still taking and creating chances. Robinho is out of here come end of season, no doubt.

Honda and Saponara each should be given chances to start in Kaka's CAM position before the season is over and if this doesn't happen I will hold it against Seedorf because this is precisely the time to trial this setup.

The last problem that unfortunately cannot be fixed without a formation change is our striker. Balo is not a target man ST and never has been. He has always been at his best when dropping deep and making runs forward from there - i.e. false 9. If you want to attempt to fix this problem without changing formation, the solution is to start Pazzini as the lone striker, but then you will alienate Balotelli and that is unfair considering he is our top scorer and 2nd highest assist-maker.

I would be looking to Garcia's incorporation of width at Roma, which is a 4-3-3 (false 9) formation. It is similar to Allegri's 4-3-1-2 except with those 2 forwards being moved out from their central positions to the wings to create wide threats and space for the false 9 to run into.

I would really, really like to see something like this:

SES ------------ Taarabt
Balotelli
Poli -------------- Montolivo
De Jong
De Sciglio - Rami - CB - Abate
GK

Compare it to Roma:

Ljajic ------------ Gervinho
Totti
Strootman ----------- Pjanic
De Rossi
Balza - Castan - Benatia - Maicon
De Sanctis

My point is that we have the same types of players to be able to play this system really well, although admittedly Roma have higher quality players in some positions and this has contributed to their success. Worth a shot IMO.

by Guest Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:10 am

think this result was expected given's roma's superiority both in terms of quality and consistency, form and mentality they are having this season.

i think now we are better off finishing season trying to win our remaining games.

but this is my last straw, that mass revision is required in our squad.

fundamental areas like defense and midfield and goalkeeper should be improved. the attacking department for me is optional right now.

my biggest fear is that galliani comes out and says, we had wage cuts because the club didnt qualify in european games, but our squad is good to remain as it is for next season. that man can say anything!

i cant accept anything less than milan fighting for top 2 next season!!

by Guest Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:11 am

this game was really ugly to watch.. roma were playing with so much control, and easiness... i just felt like ROMA didnt even try hard to win this game...

by Guest Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:16 am

Forza wrote:I am bothered by this loss. Out team used to lift for big games, but now we've become whipping boys. We have no style and not much substance either. Sure, Roma is a great team this season, but seeing Milan like this is just sad.

* I know the 4-2-3-1 is progressive thinking for a Serie A team because of the inclusion of wide players, but the fact is that our wide players are not good enough to take advantage of the system.

* Nor can we rely on Balotelli as a consistent source of goals IF he plays as a lone striker.

* I am also of the opinion that the pivot in the 4-2-3-1 must include 2 DMs a la Chelsea in order for the team to be defensively solid, especially with our leaky defence.

* It is incredibly unfortunate that De Sciglio has been out for so much of this season because he makes a huge difference.

* As Arq said, Bonera over Abate is poor from Seedorf.

* Essien & Constant are of no use to Milan.

* We need a quality replacement for Abbiati.

I'm not going to sit here and just whine about the problems though. I think that we could solve these issues simply by giving our players an opportunity to play in their natural positions: E.g. not Bonera at RB, Honda at RAM, Balo as the lone striker. I think the 4-2-3-1 has forced many square pegs into round holes - too many for the team to compete at its full potential. I know our squad is not the best at the moment, but we should be better than what we showed against Roma.

The other thing is that our midfield struggles to maintain possession with the only players looking to hold onto the ball being those in the pivot. The wingers and Kaka are far too one dimensional and predictable in the current set-up - you know they are just going to go straight forward as soon as they receive the ball. Muntari & Montolivo got dominated by Pjanic, De Rossi and Nainggolan. Dominated. It was 2 vs 3 in midfield because Honda and Taarabt pretty much play as wide forwards and Kaka doesn't have the stamina to drop back often enough. Ok, so you can move one of our WBs up into midfield to try and remedy this, but so can Roma - and they did. And even then, it's not as if our WBs provide any quality moving forward either. Once again, Bonera at RB is a decision I just don't understand.

Kaka cannot be relied upon to back-up match after match and provide a spark every game. Sadly, he's past his prime and his role should really be limited to a super-sub from now on. We all know he's probably off to the MLS sometime soon, so we need some longer-term thinking here.

Taarabt is easily the better wide player over Honda and as soon as SES comes back, Taarabt is going to either be dropped to the bench or switch wings and take Honda's place because SES, unlike Taarabt, puts in a Herculean defensive effort on that wing whilst still taking and creating chances. Robinho is out of here come end of season, no doubt.

Honda and Saponara each should be given chances to start in Kaka's CAM position before the season is over and if this doesn't happen I will hold it against Seedorf because this is precisely the time to trial this setup.

The last problem that unfortunately cannot be fixed without a formation change is our striker. Balo is not a target man ST and never has been. He has always been at his best when dropping deep and making runs forward from there - i.e. false 9. If you want to attempt to fix this problem without changing formation, the solution is to start Pazzini as the lone striker, but then you will alienate Balotelli and that is unfair considering he is our top scorer and 2nd highest assist-maker.

I would be looking to Garcia's incorporation of width at Roma, which is a 4-3-3 (false 9) formation. It is similar to Allegri's 4-3-1-2 except with those 2 forwards being moved out from their central positions to the wings to create wide threats and space for the false 9 to run into.

I would really, really like to see something like this:

SES ------------ Taarabt
Balotelli
Poli -------------- Montolivo
De Jong
De Sciglio - Rami - CB - Abate
GK

SES ------------ Taarabt
Balotelli
Poli -------------- Montolivo
De Jong
De Sciglio - Rami - CB - Abate
GK

Compare it to Roma:

Ljajic ------------ Gervinho
Totti
Strootman ----------- Pjanic
De Rossi
Balza - Castan - Benatia - Maicon
De Sanctis

My point is that we have the same types of players to be able to play this system really well, although admittedly Roma have higher quality players in some positions and this has contributed to their success. Worth a shot IMO.

yea thats great point. yea its painful to see milan playing so bad! and just boring football. our team cant even play basic fundamental football. and it really frustrates me.

yea i think with ricky, i think he just lost really good years and fitness at real madrid, and all of sudden he is trying too hard and its not going well, or just age is catching on him. in dressing room ricky would be huge asset for sure, but i think long term, el sharawwy and all should take that step.

what bothers me is that with attitude that berlusconi and galliani has been showing, i really really fear that milan are going to stay the same as we are now, or even head to worse..

by Dante Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:00 pm

I like your post Forza . Some nice points , though i did disagree with a few details here and there , but still .. As for the game , oh well .

We would never going to win this game ; put aside Roma being the better team. Milan would never give everything to hand the scudetto to Juventus and that's the reality. You saw Milan like that because Roma was meant to win , either way .

Having said that , the game itself was far from very impressive from Milan's side. We should be better in such a big game , but like i said , the result would never change.

I wouldn't dwell too much into this game , really . dat Pjanic goal , amazing.

Good luck Roma , you can do it Proud

by Dante Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:04 pm

Oh and benching Kaka is a bad notion. If anything , we owe it to Kaka to play these last few games , he aims for the wc. Saponara and even Honda won't be any better in his stead anyway.

Be real , Kaka's the best we have for his role right now. Honda has a full season behind him and still hasn't fully adapted to italian football . Saponara needs to improve even more. anyway like i said , i wouldn't take this particular game to the heart.

There will be time for that in the derby . And i am very much positive when i say it will be quite the different Milan against Inter.

by Dante Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:12 pm

M99 wrote:FT 2-0.

Glad that the game is over. That was horrible.

Pls go with your streak ES.

by •MilanDevil• Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:29 am

@Forza, I think the formation you posted does suit our players. To emphasize your points, Balotelli is clearly much more dynamic in a role close to the midfield, we always see this when Pazzini is played as a Striker with Balotelli behind him. Balo is not a player that makes runs and this can sometimes limit the passing options of our midfield. A striker is supposed to make smart runs that can either result in a pass from a midfielder or the opening of spaces for other players. The false 9 position is very smart because it allows him to use his abilities to their best.

I hope we adopt the formation that you have suggested, it can offer more balance than the 4-2-3-1, simply because we lack the players to play 4-2-3-1. It is also possible to play Honda in Poli's position for rotation.

by •MilanDevil• Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:39 am

Look at Balo in his Inter days, he performed better as a supporting striker role because he had a more free role.

by Dante Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:16 pm

Milandevil , that Inter was a much better unit than this Milan is. Balo looks better there in the vid but in reality , he's twice the player than he was back then.

Here's my take on the matter , i don't think it has anything to do about his position on the field . That's details , one would say very important details and i would agree , but his role has to be decided on where his teammates would benefit more from him . In this Milan side , the CF role is what we need him to be , we don't have Eto and Milito of 2009 , Balo is the best we have in front of goal. They had better and that's why Balo played behind them , it's not about being better there. Tbh with you , Balo playing there week in week out in this Milan would turn out bad . Mourinho mostly played him as a substitute in that role , you can't have a dude walking around behind the strikers , not pressing , not dropping deep and stuff. Balo does that sometimes , but not out of instict , but out of necessity. Necessity won't force him to become good at this role , only what he enjoys doing on the field will improve him as a player. And he wants CF , a position we have no better other than Balo .

What's the case here , in my opinion .
It's about Balotelli not having faith in this team. It's common in football , players of higher talent , looking from above at teammates who they believe to be incompetent. We've had a whole season to make conclusions and that's mine on Balotelli.

That's what happens with Balo. People who have played football even at the most amateur form , may have witnessed it first hand , i've been in both sides of the same coin tbh. I get what it is. And when it happens , a player cannot give himself fully on the field. It's not only about this player or that player. It's about the whole team , a chain is always as strong as it's weakest link. And we have quite enough , weak links.

I'd say we would only see the real Balotelli if the "chiefs" at Milan decide to remember where Milan was and what was always meant to be. A winning , competitive side who plays hard for the win against any opponent on any ground in the world. When they bring some players who fit the real criteria of and qualifications for the job at hand , i am sure we would see Balotelli doing great on either role , be it CF or false 9 or winger , whatever.

Balotelli is a 23 years old italian international , who would have crazy money and silverware elsewhere , someone who won stuff before the age of 20 that many of our current players will never even come close to in their entire carreer , someone who one day is being praised as a prize for italian football and the next as a burden , the star of Milan and the next as the cancer of the team . Top that with being a father rescently , a dude like Balotelli , at 23 .. The least of factors that hold him back must be his role or his position.

And he is at Milan earning less , winning absolutely nothing for 2 years in a row , at his boyhood club who always knew had superstars and great players , the one which he always dreamt of playing for , only to witness one of it's most pathetic years with teammates that would normally wouldn't even make the bench. As if that all is not enough , he's expected to overcome all that and be the saviour. Yeah , he cannot. I don't know who would . On top of all that , as if that weren't enough , he has one of the worst kind of relationships with the press and they always strike for controversy about him.

So here's what i think . Balotelli is a player who makes the difference here or there. But he won't make the difference in a Milan side that won't improve . Simple as that , if you ask me. A forward always depends on others to be what he's supposed to be. And we have issues on every front , issues that Balotelli last of all will solve with his position or role.

by •MilanDevil• Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:30 pm

@Dante I agree with you but my proposition is only a temporarily solution. We know that Balo is a game changer and our team at the moment is not great compared to others; I find that placing him in a role close to the midfield allows him to use his abilities more. Like you have pointed out, the team is not a complete unit, which is why we need to depend on certain individuals to carry the team in the mean time, these include El Shaarawy, Taarabt, and Balo.

On the other hand, your proposition is a long term solution which would require the management to work better and provide us with a better team so that we are not dependent on certain individuals.

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