sportsczy wrote:Nobody mentions the Olympiakos are pretty amazing at home and have upset European powerhouses before and pretty often... it's never easy to go there and win.  

Pretty sure that was Olympiakos's first ever victory in a Champion's League knockout round. That doesn't exactly suggest that they're upset-kings when it comes to this stage of the competition.

i know moyes isn't doing a good job, but:

1) this was going to happen no matter what manager man utd got (ok not as bad, but still no top 4)
2) RVP was going to go downhill no matter what manager managed him

roy keane is 100% correct. though it's old news now. many of us were saying this 3 or 4 years ago

Dutch Football ‏@football_oranje
Van Persie, "My teammates are in some of the areas where I want to play. This makes it difficult for me." (NOS)

Van Persie "Then I have to change my tactics to suit my teammates, and play outside my zone. That's a pity

Who is he talking about, Rooney?

Seems like a dig at Moyes' tactics.

urbaNRoots wrote:Dutch Football ‏@football_oranje
Van Persie, "My teammates are in some of the areas where I want to play. This makes it difficult for me." (NOS)

Van Persie "Then I have to change my tactics to suit my teammates, and play outside my zone. That's a pity

Who is he talking about, Rooney?

I think he is. Look how close Rooney stands to RVP against Fulham. Open the pic in a new tab to see it all

"that's a pity"

he's not angry, just......disappointed

I think it was a dig to Moyes simply. moreover the rumours say there never was affinity between them, since the beginning

All you need to see is RVP's body language to know he has no regards for Moyes. He looks unhappy. And even his celebrations seem forced.

I bet he wasn't even injured for as long as he was, just needed a break from all the crapness. That's why when Mata was signed, viola, he declared himself fit on Twitter.

The writing was on the wall

urbaNRoots wrote:Dutch Football ‏@football_oranje
Van Persie, "My teammates are in some of the areas where I want to play. This makes it difficult for me." (NOS)

Van Persie "Then I have to change my tactics to suit my teammates, and play outside my zone. That's a pity

Who is he talking about, Rooney?

but but on fifa it works... like ramos at DM..... damn you real life   

They have RvP on 250k a week. They're going to struggle to get him off the wage bill as he's injury prone / past it.
They now have Rooney on 300k a week. (Which is probably deserved in a sense that United would never have been able to replaced him. With that said 5 years is far too long, he's going to be 33/34 and on 300k a week; they're not going to be able to get rid of him once he's past it/had enough of football.)
They have Mata on fairly high wages too. I think Nani also agreed a MASSIVE deal in the summer and for 5 years too. :lmao

They've spent 65m on Fellaini and Mata (THEY PLAY THE SAME POSITION FFS ) and NEED to continue to invest in the summer.

They need a WHOLE NEW defence as Rio, Vidic, Evra and I'm sure I'm missing some are leaving.
They need another midfielder too but I guess they have Cleverley.

They're going to miss out on CL this year so miss out on CL money.

And I'm certain they're in heavy debt.

And they have Moyes as manager of United.

Its just funny seeing people try to make excuses for Moyes. It reminds me of when they were trying to make excuses for AVB at Chelsea.

^ Two different situations.

Moyes is quite clearly out of his depth.
AVB wasn't really given a chance / backing from both players AND Roman Abramovich.

I pray for Jibers.

Red Alert wrote:^ Two different situations.

Moyes is quite clearly out of his depth.
AVB wasn't really given a chance / backing from both players AND Roman Abramovich.

I'm not sure you actually watched the matches he managed under Chelsea.

Blue Barrett wrote:Its just funny seeing people try to make excuses for Moyes. It reminds me of when they were trying to make excuses for AVB at Chelsea.

Playing a high line with ivanovic, terry and Alex

Don't give me that crap. lol

Moyes has been in the PL for over a decade and is at a mature age for a manager.

AVB came into a new country/new league, and at a very young age. He was inexperienced, and he still is to this day. Lampard + Terry ruined any chance of him being a success there because he tried to fade them out and build for the future.

Man Utd now need to win by 3 clear goals at home to progress.

The only time they've won with 3 clear goals at OT this season, was Norwich at COC (4-0)

Red Alert wrote:Don't give me that crap. lol

Moyes has been in the PL for over a decade and is at a mature age for a manager.

AVB came into a new country/new league, and at a very young age. He was inexperienced, and he still is to this day. Lampard + Terry ruined any chance of him being a success there because he tried to fade them out and build for the future.  

Chelsea won the freaking CL after sacking home

I'm sure they don't give two f*cks about the future after achieving such glory. they have limitless money, to "building: doesn't mean much.

fatman123 wrote:

Blue Barrett wrote:Its just funny seeing people try to make excuses for Moyes. It reminds me of when they were trying to make excuses for AVB at Chelsea.

Playing a high line with ivanovic, terry and Alex

A bloody ridiculous high line, at that.

Natalie Portman wrote:

Red Alert wrote:Don't give me that crap. lol

Moyes has been in the PL for over a decade and is at a mature age for a manager.

AVB came into a new country/new league, and at a very young age. He was inexperienced, and he still is to this day. Lampard + Terry ruined any chance of him being a success there because he tried to fade them out and build for the future.  

Chelsea won the freaking CL after sacking home

I'm sure they don't give two f*cks about the future after achieving such glory. they have limitless money, to "building: doesn't mean much.

That has nothing to do with what's being discussed.................

This is Moyes being compared to AVB's time at Chelsea. I'm certain AVB was in (or just out of the top 4 but he was always around a European spot) coming into a new league. RDM is lucky he won the CL for two reasons; A) being Bayern bottled the CL final and B) being they finished 6th!
Moyes has been mid-table ever since he's been there! The closest he's came to a "European spot" is from the media saying United has a strong second half season ffs.

Politics ruined AVBs time at Chelsea. Same can't be said with Moyes.

Red Alert wrote:Don't give me that crap. lol

Moyes has been in the PL for over a decade and is at a mature age for a manager.

AVB came into a new country/new league, and at a very young age. He was inexperienced, and he still is to this day. Lampard + Terry ruined any chance of him being a success there because he tried to fade them out and build for the future.  

1. There is no bloody proof(other than a bunch of journos making up nonsense stories) that the senior players hated AVB. They came out and backed him time and time again. Did they wish he was gone privately? I wouldn't blame them for thinking like that, considering how out of his depth AVB was. But I think I'd prefer to take into account the almost decade(as of that time) of professionalism the players displayed over one bad stretch that had Daily Fail and the likes digging up nonsense mirage stories. You really look at Frank Lampard of all people and think he'd be THAT petty of a human being? Get real.

2. New to the country blah blah blah, the fact still remains that he was out of his depth, incredibly naive and annoyingly stubborn. Refused to change his tactics to suit the players he had(imagine playing an almost center field high line with Terry, Alex & Ivanovic). Refused to adjust his tactics from game to game to suit the opposition(playing that god awful high line against Arsenal was where I lost it). Making the dumbest substitutions in games or not even making any at all when they were needed.

I can go on and on and on but the fact remains that getting rid of AVB when we did was the right decision. We could have given him 3 years and a blank cheque(not saying the funds weren't made available to him, he refused to buy beyond Mata & Meirelles - who was a panic deadline day buy btw)and all he would have done was lead us to more embarrassment and a faster downward spiral.

Ask Spurs how the "time and patience(and money)" thing went for them.

And btw, don't throw hypotheticals and baseless rumors around with nothing to back it up and then say "it was common knowledge" or something that vague.

AVB not given the backing LMAO RedAlert please. the guy under whom 100m was just spent in one summer and he still couldn't get to CL.

Blue Barrett wrote:
1. There is no bloody proof(other than a bunch of journos making up nonsense stories) that the senior players hated AVB. They came out and backed him time and time again. Did they wish he was gone privately? I wouldn't blame them for thinking like that, considering how out of his depth AVB was. But I think I'd prefer to take into account the almost decade(as of that time) of professionalism the players displayed over one bad stretch that had Daily Fail and the likes digging up nonsense mirage stories. You really look at Frank Lampard of all people and think he'd be THAT petty of a human being? Get real.

2. New to the country blah blah blah, the fact still remains that he was out of his depth, incredibly naive and annoyingly stubborn. Refused to change his tactics to suit the players he had(imagine playing an almost center field high line with Terry, Alex & Ivanovic). Refused to adjust his tactics from game to game to suit the opposition(playing that god awful high line against Arsenal was where I lost it). Making the dumbest substitutions in games or not even making any at all when they were needed.

I can go on and on and on but the fact remains that getting rid of AVB when we did was the right decision. We could have given him 3 years and a blank cheque(not saying the funds weren't made available to him, he refused to buy beyond Mata & Meirelles - who was a panic deadline day buy btw)and all he would have done was lead us to more embarrassment and a faster downward spiral.

Ask Spurs how the "time and patience(and money)" thing went for them.

1. The players and the manager never saw eye-to-eye. That may have been AVB being "stubborn" or whatever. It's clear Terry/Lampard were the main figures in the dressing room. Dressing room went to sh*t after Lampard got dropped. And this isn't on the Daily Fail, this is from Alex and his interview with the Telegraph. Tactics or whatnot, AVB was in the FA cup, CL, and fighting for a top 4 spot at the same time as now before he was sacked. Moyes is out of the FA cup, is almost kicked out of the CL, and doesn't even look like he's going to qualify for the Europa league ffs. You can't compare the two.

2. Yeah, let's just take out every factor to try and get your point across, fine. You're still strong. Moyes will fail at United because he's an average manager and ALWAYS HAS BEEN (and ask any Liverpool fan in the last 10 years they'd be saying the same thing). AVB has all the potential in the world to become a top European coach; same can't be said with Moyes. It obviously didn't work for him at Chelsea (and later Spurs) but whatever. He just needs time and patience at the right project (something he didn't get at Spurs so I'm not sure what you're implying).