i have been hearing that for years

That's probably because Löw doesn't seem to be able to learn things.

That being said, in 2008 we genuinely had a not very good team, not much any coach could've done back then. 2010 you can argue that we lacked experience, though the team was obviously instructed to sit deep.
In 2012 everything was going for us, except our tactically inept coach.

two glaring weaknesses for Germany NT:
- Literally no decent CF
- Low trying to emulate Barca

I think the later is helped since Pep is running Bayern now. But there are nuances he needs to implement tactically in big games that he just doesn't seem to get...

We got tons of decent CFs, we just don't use them as such.

VivaStPauli wrote:We got tons of decent CFs, we just don't use them as such.

Like who?

sportsczy wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:We got tons of decent CFs, we just don't use them as such.

 Like who?

Gomez, Kruse and Klose.

Qu: Can anyone stop Germany from winning the WC this summer?
A: Yes. But will anyone? Maybe in the semi's.

VivaStPauli wrote:That's probably because Löw doesn't seem to be able to learn things.

That being said, in 2008 we genuinely had a not very good team, not much any coach could've done back then. 2010 you can argue that we lacked experience, though the team was obviously instructed to sit deep.
In 2012 everything was going for us, except our tactically inept coach.

I think these are points that people tend to miss, that in reality Germany have only really fallen short once in 2012. Despite close results in the two previous tournaments, it was only ever really argued in hindsight that Germany had much of a chance.

Gil's argument that Italy were able to get the better of Germany was simply due to Hummel's presence is over simplistic and meant only to excuse Löw. The failure against Italy was tactical not individual, including Kroos in place of a genuine wide threat in the hopes of stifling Pirlo yet failing to physically harass Italy's talisman, meaning that Italy's strengths were not stifled whilst Italy's weakness on the flanks was not exploited as Löw robbed Germany of their incredible strength out wide.

I don't believe that the lack of a decent CF is a fair criticism. A world class centre forward perhaps, however Klose and Gomez are both fine forwards in their own right, whilst Keissling but for Löw's stubborn nature. In any case, Italy demonstrated in 2006 that the tournament could be won without a dominant goal scorer, with the team boasting 10 goal scorers with only Materazzi and Toni hitting the back of the net multiple times.

Löw's tactical dependence on others and his lack of courage in big moments represents a major obstacle to overcome, however in answer to the thread, there are also quite simply other squads of equal or greater quality who can win the tournament. Brazil are devastating in their home country, Spain are capable of matching Germany's depth, whilst Argentina have proven to be quite a capable side despite the lack of balance in their squad. Not to mention the likelihood of Löw having another psychological breakdown if faced with Italy again.

Ignoring the odd hyperbole of this thread:

I've said it for 2 years now, Germany are long overdue to triumph within a major competition as after the 2006 World Cup, 2008 Euros, 2010 World Cup, and the Euro 2012, I find it inevitable that they will reach the final within Brazil, this summer. Why? Loew despite being the coward he is I surmise has found congruence in the know how to leading this talent bursting side, very far into the competition, I predict that they will go on to win it.

Brazil is my equal prediction to see them winning, Scolari has rediscovered his footing within the Seleccao, the momentum leading from their recent performances and the home ground advantage, I surmise will have them mount a tremendous challenge to which hypothetically should see them win it.

Summary: I see a Germany-Brazil final.

España? Vicente Del Bosque recently was contracted with Lippilism to which has reached a now terminal stage, I fear we will have a disappointing tourney due to the staleness of what we have become and the fact that Lippilist Del Bosque's increasingly baffling squad selection and use of the players will cost us dearly.

Count us out.

Gil wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:We got tons of decent CFs, we just don't use them as such.

 Like who?

Gomez, Kruse and Klose.

Klose is 35 and has a grand total of 5 goals for club this season. Gomez is perma-injured. Kruse? As in Max Kruse?? Stop trolling Gil

stay calm, Gotze will play false 9 for Germany and they will probably win the WC thnx to him

@Dostoevsky. In 2006, Italy had proven goalscorers Del Piero, Inzaghi and Luca Toni. Germany have literally none that are serviceable at this point unless Gomez recovers and gets back to form... which seems very unlikely at this point since he's been battling long term injuries for a while now.

We do have tons of players that played CF well, like Reus, Götze, Schürrle, and Müller. Granted, they're not traditional strikers, but even there we got Klose and Gomez in the narrow sense (though with both, fitness will be an issue), as well as Podolski in the broader sense, who did play as a striker a lot for Köln and Bayern, just not for Germany from 2010 on.

And let's not forget we got Kruse now, who did okay in his few matches. The best option as a traditional striker would no doubt be Kießling, but, again: Löw.

Other than that I agree 100% with Dostoevsky. He put in more elaborate form what I meant to express with my rather short remark.

Arquitescu wrote:Ignoring the odd hyperbole of this thread:

I've said it for 2 years now, Germany are long overdue to triumph within a major competition as after the 2006 World Cup, 2008 Euros, 2010 World Cup, and the Euro 2012, I find it inevitable that they will reach the final within Brazil, this summer. Why? Loew despite being the coward he is I surmise has found congruence in the know how to leading this talent bursting side, very far into the competition, I predict that they will go on to win it.

Brazil is my equal prediction to see them winning, Scolari has rediscovered his footing within the Seleccao, the momentum leading from their recent performances and the home ground advantage, I surmise will have them mount a tremendous challenge to which hypothetically should see them win it.

Summary: I see a Germany-Brazil final.

España? Vicente Del Bosque recently was contracted with Lippilism to which has reached a now terminal stage, I fear we will have a disappointing tourney due to the staleness of what we have become and the fact that Lippilist Del Bosque's increasingly baffling squad selection and use of the players will cost us dearly.

Count us out.

Arq, unless Germany or Brazil finish second, they will meet at semi-finals.

I will go with a suprise-less WC and say we will have  Brazil-Germany and Spain-Argentina semis with Brazil vs Spain in the final

I expect Spain to only do 2nd in their group, though.

They have the best chance to win the WC from all teams imo.
Still less than 20%.

sportsczy wrote:@Dostoevsky.  In 2006, Italy had proven goalscorers Del Piero, Inzaghi and Luca Toni.  Germany have literally none that are serviceable at this point unless Gomez recovers and gets back to form...  which seems very unlikely at this point since he's been battling long term injuries for a while now.

I certainly see your point, however I feel that such pessimism isn't justified at this point whilst there remains ample time for players to recover from injury and regain form. If Germany had their current selection available with a month to go then I'd share your feelings. Klose despite his age may very well benefit from having played very little football in the first half of the season. Rather than battling the fatigue of a full season at his age, he will have a few months to regain sharpness and build up to the World Cup, whilst Gomez is on the brink of returning to training and will surely not be rushed back prematurely by such a patient coach as Montella.

It is quite odd given our illustrious strike force that Lippi barely rotated up top, using Inzaghi only once as a substitute given their rocky relationship and similarly using Del Piero sparingly. I personally feel that if Klose is fit he need not start but rather play an impact role, using his superb poacher's instincts and sharpness in the air. I feel that as long as they have a front man who can do his job with regards to holding up the play and creating space, the likes of Reus, Goetze, Mueller, Oezil, Schurrle or even Podolski can fill any void in terms of goal scoring. One of those players may even suit to play up front in a mobile role.

The depth that Germany has in attack, if not at centre forward, should also stand them in good stead with regards to rotation which I believe may be key given the brutal climate. The Confederations Cup demonstrated that a winning team must first of all be a very fit team and having the option to cycle such talent through the flanks may be the difference against sides reliant on a group of 15 or 16 players, particularly if games start to go to extra time. Fresh, pacey wide players and a wise old poacher coming off the bench is the perfect recipe to finish off a tight game in Brazil I feel.

That being said, I remain of the opinion that Brazil should be considered favourites in their homeland and if Gomez and Klose can not gain fitness in these last few months then I would share your concerns. For the moment though I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, as I'm sure Loew will wait as long as possible to include them.

Being perennial chokers will stop them, as usual.

Thank goodness that also prevented Bayern from putting Europe to the sword. Oh wait.

Spain, Brazil and Germany don't really have an elite CF. All 3 have someone who can still do a job though. Like Fred, Klose, Negredo etc.

dostoevsky wrote:Thank goodness that also prevented Bayern from putting Europe to the sword. Oh wait.

The same Bayern whose key players in that glory also included (and were a significant part of) Ribery, Robben, Martinez and Mandzukic.

Yes, Ribery and Robben, not to mention Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Lahm and others who were continually mocked as perpetual chokers, the same way Spain were in 2008. The idea that a team that has fallen short in the past won't win because they have fallen short in the past is absurd.

You can try and ignore the point I was making by trying to claim that Bayern were able to spend to improve but it's also painfully obvious that this Germany side is much better than the side of 2008 and 2010 when they "choked" despite being barely rated as capable of winning in the first place. Goetze, Reus, Mueller, Oezil, Kroos, Gundogan, the Benders, Hummels, Mertesacker, Boateng, Neuer. This side has been pretty obviously improving over time and anyone who writes them off on the basis of mentality is playing a fool's game.

The issue for Germany won't be the mental strength of their players, it will be the mental strength of the coach and the sheer quality of their equally strong opponents such as Brazil, Spain and Argentina.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Being perennial chokers will stop them, as usual.

Where is that myth even coming from? Is it because we lost a lot of finals? I want to see other teams get squads like the ones in 2002 or 2008 near any final.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Being perennial chokers will stop them, as usual.

I bet teams like England would love to choke as badly as Germany usually do

Wow, I can't believe this thread is 3 pages long and the obvious stat hasn't been stated.

Brasil hasn't lost a competitive home match since 1975. Yes, that's right, 1975.

And this isn't one of those weird statistics it's because when you mix the selection the Brasil coach can pull from with the crowd and the weather it's basically impossible to beat them at home.

Not to mention I believe Brasil have a better team and a better coach. Germany has a great mix of wonderful players with excellent skills and fundamentals but Brasil has that is spades as well plus a huge, physical and insanely fast team too.

That game vs Spain in Confederations Cup final should scare the crap out of these European teams.

Messi, Agüero and Gago will sort Brazil out.