cyberman wrote:Yes, we haven't won a title in 7 months, the sink is shipping

Yep, slowly reaching the murky depths of relegation and Phil Jones' locker, glad you can accept those facts

cyberman wrote:Actually comparing the 2 expectations of the clubs..

Indeed. We're fighting to win the league, you're fighting to stay in the top half of the table on MOTD

McLewis wrote:Agreed on Arteta, who has indeed been vastly overlooked.

As for Vermaelen. He's definitely a leader, he's just not a good footballer at the moment. That's his problem. He's shown that he can be much better than what he is now, but what good is a captain that can't lead with his feet as well as with his voice?

Arteta is MAYBE one, okay. But keep in mind he's never won anything in his career. He still doesn't have that composure needed when it's tough and you need to keep your feet on the ground as a squad to grind out results when it matters most. I personally don't think he can do that post January and City / Chelsea start catching up.

Vermaelen is actually a good footballer, he just can't defend which at the end of the day is his job. I agree with your point though. That was mainly one of the reasons people wanted to keep Reina at Liverpool, but I personally wanted him gone.

Lex wrote:What this is is an attempt to find something about the most in form team at the moment to criticize, so it's no surprise everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. It used to be that Arsenal had no English talent. When that myth got busted, the next fad critique was that Arsenal were a one man team with Henry, then Bergkamp, then Fabregas, then RVP. Once again, when that myth got bombed, the next one up was that we were afraid to get stuck in and lacked physical prowess. A few signings later and it's now come to "Arsenal are leaderless" :roll:Once that little tidbit is nipped in the bud, I wonder what the next reason to criticize Arsenal will be

Oh please.

If you open your eyes and take the Arsenal goggles off you'll see you don't have enough, if at all, leaders in your squad.

Who cares if Arsenal has leaders? Apparently it doesn't matter too much to them, 5 points at the top.

Overrated anyway IMO. They play a role certainly, but are nowhere near as important as they're made out to be.

Arteta = Leader
Wilshere = Leader although experiencing a dip in form right now so granted he is more focused right now on solidifying his spot in the squad
Mertesacker = Leader
Ramsey = Leader
Flamini = Leader
Importantly.. Wenger = Great leader

Leadership comes in many forms. John Terry is hailed for being a vocal leader, but he will also F your wife when your turned the other way.

All the evidence points to fantastic morale in the dressing room right now and everyone seems to be willing to bust a gut for one another - what's the basis for this criticism?

We have no less "universally touted leaders" than champions manYoo had last year.

Red Alert wrote:

McLewis wrote:Agreed on Arteta, who has indeed been vastly overlooked.

As for Vermaelen. He's definitely a leader, he's just not a good footballer at the moment. That's his problem. He's shown that he can be much better than what he is now, but what good is a captain that can't lead with his feet as well as with his voice?

Arteta is MAYBE one, okay. But keep in mind he's never won anything in his career. He still doesn't have that composure needed when it's tough and you need to keep your feet on the ground as a squad to grind out results when it matters most. I personally don't think he can do that post January and City / Chelsea start catching up.

Vermaelen is actually a good footballer, he just can't defend which at the end of the day is his job. I agree with your point though. That was mainly one of the reasons people wanted to keep Reina at Liverpool, but I personally wanted him gone.

Lex wrote:What this is is an attempt to find something about the most in form team at the moment to criticize, so it's no surprise everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. It used to be that Arsenal had no English talent. When that myth got busted, the next fad critique was that Arsenal were a one man team with Henry, then Bergkamp, then Fabregas, then RVP. Once again, when that myth got bombed, the next one up was that we were afraid to get stuck in and lacked physical prowess. A few signings later and it's now come to "Arsenal are leaderless" :roll:Once that little tidbit is nipped in the bud, I wonder what the next reason to criticize Arsenal will be

Oh please.

If you open your eyes and take the Arsenal goggles off you'll see you don't have enough, if at all, leaders in your squad.

For your response to McLewis, I don't see how winning something has to do with being a leader; Arteta played in an Everton side for most of his career and came to us when the rest of the squad wasn't good enough to win trophies yet. Are you saying that no footballer outside of a top team has leadership qualities? A person's personality and character are what is important. And on that note, what composure does Arteta lack, exactly? The guy is always calm, focused and doing his job to keep the rest of the squad that way (although the one fecking day he gets sent off we're having this conversation ).

There is no evidence at all to suggest that Arteta or any of our players will break down into wimps after winter - our best runs for the last couple of seasons have been post-January when we realize we need to compete if we want to achieve our goals; this is not the team of kids that we had a few years ago. On that note, is it already a forgone conclusion that Chelsea and Man City are going to become monsters in the second half of the season? If so, why don't we just give one of them the title since they clearly won't fall off the pace? Nope, only Arsenal will

For your response to Lex, see Peccadillo's comment. The important thing is everyone fighting for each other - football isn't a game of one guy inspiring an entire team; it's about a collective group coming together and accomplishing their goals, and right now our team spirit is as good as anyone's. I really don't know understand how it's proven in any way that leadership is a problem for us in a way that will cause our downfall while every other team will be perfectly fine. Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc all apparently have such great leaders but not us. Alright man...