Re: Qatar World Cup Scandals Thread

[The_Badger]

Your despicable defence of Qatar certainly seems to be suggesting it's okay to overlook the issues people raise, as well as your shameless diversions towards questions asked.

This is not about the USA. Trying to dodge around the points people make by constantly mentioning another nation is unnecessary and cowardly.

Nowhere is Zealous defending the actions of Qatar as he has stated that to you.

Yet his actual posts suggest otherwise.

He asks why does Qatar receive such latent criticism while the others are consistently exempt from their own ? Pure case of stones being thrown in a glass house.

It is a highly skewed and hypocritical debate.

They're not exempt from criticism are they though? And there is nothing hypocritical about it.

Perhaps you need to be reminded that this is a thread about scandals relating to Qatar's hosting of the World Cup 2022. It is not about US foreign policy, or employment rights at Foxconn factories, or the use of sweatshops in Honduras.

I'm pretty sure this forum has a very strict outlook on debating off-topic issues.

[DeletedUser#1]

Have already served a 3 month ban discussing this, so I won't get too much into it. I've lived in Dubai and the indian slavery there is slightly better than Qatar's.

These slaves are paid so badly for standards of living there, it boggles the mind. Now everyone knows I am not a fan of the west. Hell, I am the most anti-Capitalist poster on the site, but at least they aren't that obvious ffs.

Plus, Qatar, seriously ?! Watch AFC Champions league games live now. they are on. Qatari teams (Al Sadd, Al Jeish, and some other teams if I ain't mistaken) are playing. The stadium is 5% full. Disgusting atmosphere. Nowhere for tourists to roam either, it's not like the country has any history or culture or anything either. Terrible choice

[Zealous]

Your despicable defence of Qatar certainly seems to be suggesting it's okay to overlook the issues people raise, as well as your shameless diversions towards questions asked.

This is not about the USA. Trying to dodge around the points people make by constantly mentioning another nation is unnecessary and cowardly.

I'm not dodging shit, you're the one who refuses to see the bigger picture. Not once did I say or suggest that any of this was OK, I'm not defending anything that sees people suffer. If that makes me a coward in your eyes then fine but in my eyes a coward is someone who just pretends to be outraged so he can feel better about himself while other people actually act and try to solve the problem.

While my point is clear your point is not. Is it that Qatar should straighten out a lot of it's social labour issues? If it is then I agree with you. Is your point that Qatar shouldn't hold the world cup? If it is then what do you propose as an alternative? If the World Cup should only be held in countries where there are no bad stuff happening we may as well host the world cup on the moon.

[sportsczy]

Neither did Dubai 10 years ago... or Abu Dhabi 5 years ago. Qatar is going to get there come 2022.

[Zealous]

Have already served a 3 month ban discussing this, so I won't get too much into it. I've lived in Dubai and the indian slavery there is slightly better than Qatar's.

These slaves are paid so badly for standards of living there, it boggles the mind. Now everyone knows I am not a fan of the west. Hell, I am the most anti-Capitalist poster on the site, but at least they aren't that obvious ffs.

Plus, Qatar, seriously ?! Watch AFC Champions league games live now. they are on. Qatari teams (Al Sadd, Al Jeish, and some other teams if I ain't mistaken) are playing. The stadium is 5% full. Disgusting atmosphere. Nowhere for tourists to roam either, it's not like the country has any history or culture or anything either. Terrible choice

Please tell me more about the superior history and culture of other countries.

[sportsczy]

I want to add this too: If the WC was being held in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait or a couple of other places... fine. I would understand some of the outrage. But Qatar? Heck, not only are they modernizing the country, they're also looking to modernize the government. They're looking to get a legislature in place... it's delayed because they want to get some of the large infratructure done before handing stuff off to a new legislature which will invariably start off as a cluster f**k until it figures itself out. But they're trying.

Qatar is one of the countries that deserves the least amount of criticsm in the region imo.

[The_Badger]

I think it's difficult to host such an event in perfect world that doesn't exist. However, hosting it in one that enforces such discriminatory, homophobic and racist legal policies deserves scrutiny and criticism.

[farfan]

Plus, Qatar, seriously ?! Watch AFC Champions league games live now. they are on. Qatari teams (Al Sadd, Al Jeish, and some other teams if I ain't mistaken) are playing. The stadium is 5% full. Disgusting atmosphere. Nowhere for tourists to roam either, it's not like the country has any history or culture or anything either. Terrible choice

why is this such an issue ? since when world cup attendance is predominantly composed of local fans ?  stadiums will be full  in every single game in 2022 , just like in every world cup .
the US didn't even have a football league when it hosted the world cup in 1994. yet that WC broke the attendance record , and still holds it to this day.

and i'd still take the atmosphere you described over an atmosphere where monkey chants are regulary sung and bananas are thrown in the filed .

[che]

I don't want the world cup to be hosted by a country who operates a prison such as Guantanamo Bay and starts wars in countries half the world away just to further it's own economic interests.

neither do i... australia had a bid

Guess what, you don't live in Utopia, where you live isn't any cleaner than anywhere else in the world

well, in slovakia we're not allowed to have slaves and being gay isn't illegal so we've got that going for us, which is nice

anyone who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist or a blind fanatic. None of the above has any bearing on whether or not Qatar or Russia can host a world cup btw, if anything they will be decent tournaments and people will enjoy themselves.

The only reason this is news is because the USA and England lost out to Qatar and Russia.

The media campaign against this world cup has been sad

10/10 self-awareness, as usual

[BarrileteCosmico]

Yes because these "slaves" have been in the region for decades and it's only relevant now apparently. Never mind they are actually in better conditions than the would have been if they were back home and yet amazingly human right activists like Che don't give a flying fook about the unbelievably bad conditions some people are forced to live in on the Indian sub continent.

It's only relevant now because Qatar have put themselves on the spotlight. Previous to their WC bidding most people would not have been able to place them on a map. And there's a huge difference between living badly in a place where you have rights and living badly in a place where you are retained against your will, forced to work in the desert without access to water, where pay is withheld seemingly at whim and with a likelihood of death by exhaustion.

The working conditions for migrant workers in the Gulf are terrible, you don't need to tell me about it. I'm more than confident that I am the only poster on this entire forum who has actually seen it btw. Any work related death is one death too many imo but stuff like this unfortunately isn't new and if you ask me the countries where these workers come from share the blame because they let it happen to their citizens without so much as a formal complaint.

Don't disagree with any of this, but your attitude seems to be one of 'oh well, it's a shame but it's nothing new and there is nothing we can do about it'.

Unfortunately cheap labour is cheap labour, back in the industrial revolution children in places like Manchester worked till they got terminally ill. It's obviously not the same but there are countless of examples of horrific conditions in countries experiences rapid growth.

Qatar just want to grow as fast as possible, they are playing catch up. A lot of the West have gotten past the point where they need to do horrific things to grow and expand. It's not right but Qatar are just following the beaten track.

It's not cheap labor, it's modern day slave labor. There is a world of difference between a Foxconn worker who might face bad working conditions, but if you talk to them they seem fairly optimistic about the future and can leave foxconn at any time, and one where the passport is withheld from him. And if Qatar were doing this for development they would not be investing their wealth into financing football clubs (which have a terrible business model) and spending it on pharaonic projects.

[mr-r34]

They are sending it to a people, not to a desert you clown.

Hahahahahahahah

[Abramovich]

Am posting right now from Doha... Airport though   

[chinomaster182]

If the World Cup should only be held in countries where there are no bad stuff happening we may as well host the world cup on the moon.

Really? Countries like sweden, canada, denmark, switzerland, germany, uk and holland are first world democracies that have very high standards of living, they respect human rights and treat minorities well. They also have first world installations and infrastructure. Their history is certainly not spotless, but we can say that in the last couple of decades these countries havnt invaded other countries just for the funsies (notable exception with the uk invading iraq).

In fact i'm more disgusted with the upcoming world cup in Russia, a country that has a leader whose daily agenda is asking himself "how can i make the world a shittier place today?". If Putin can get a world cup then i say all standards are off and we might as well host it in north korea next time.

[poolsupporter]

Zealous are you seriously brushing off over 500 deaths I  construction sites and slave labor-like conditions as a smear campaign?

Yes because these "slaves" have been in the region for decades and it's only relevant now apparently. Never mind they are actually in better conditions than the would have been if they were back home and yet amazingly human right activists like Che don't give a flying fook about the unbelievably bad conditions some people are forced to live in on the Indian sub continent.    

The working conditions for migrant workers in the Gulf are terrible, you don't need to tell me about it. I'm more than confident that I am the only poster on this entire forum who has actually seen it btw. Any work related death is one death too many imo but stuff like this unfortunately isn't new and if you ask me the countries where these workers come from share the blame because they let it happen to their citizens without so much as a formal complaint.

Unfortunately cheap labour is cheap labour, back in the industrial revolution children in places like Manchester worked till they got terminally ill. It's obviously not the same but there are countless of examples of horrific conditions in countries experiences rapid growth.

Qatar just want to grow as fast as possible, they are playing catch up. A lot of the West have gotten past the point where they need to do horrific things to grow and expand. It's not right but Qatar are just following the beaten track.

Point 1 : I (of Indian ethnicity) have lived in Oman for 18 years straight and have seen as much if not more of this than you. (IIRC we both lived there at the same time and know a couple of the same people)

Point 2 : I'm not sure if you're aware of the amount of work the Indian embassy (I have personal experience here) does to try and help the Indians out. People all the way from your construction workers to lower middle class Indians out there are constantly treated like shit. Besides, I don't think formal complaints would do much. In my time there, if a local feels like doing something, they do it. I've seen the way locals abuse maids, beat house boys, the shitty conditions a low-mid-level accountant lives in, for example.

And the minute these people try to get out of the country because they figured out this fantasy of making a ton of money in the Gulf was a big sham, they hit a brick wall as far as their sponsors go. No passports, no communication, nothing. As a result, everyday in the newspaper, you'll have at least 2 people under the "absconding" list.

[Lord Spencer]

First of all, the "Kafala" system the Gulf employs is a disgusting system that at once locks the basic rights of anyone employed with it.

There is simply no shittier system in place for workers in almost anywhere in the world. People like bringing up China's sweatshop's ignoring two facts:

1- Those workers can leave more easily.
2- Those are Chinese workers working in China, not cut-off from any form of familiar support.

Second, Qatar is not worried about their human rights violations as much as they are worried about angering the much wealthier and much more powerful Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Not only have every political maneuver of Qatar backfired in their face, but now they are accused of both harboring the now proclaimed Terrorist organization (Mulsim Brotherhood) and funding terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda.

Third, Qatar is a country "invented" by English Colonials in the region and was never a historic site at all. Unlike the Bahrain region, Oman, Yemen, and Hijaz. Qatar is a conglomeration of tribes that one time did the bidding of the English against the Ottoman Empire. Pretending they have any unique "culture" is reinventing history.

Finally, Zealous is right in saying no place is free of corruption. Pointing at Russi is easy, but when you understand how Russian money is basically laundered in England, France, Switzerland, under the EU noses without any complaint from them, you realize that the bankrupt EU does not care as much about Russian human rights violations as much as they do about the money going through their lands.

[Guest]

If the World Cup should only be held in countries where there are no bad stuff happening we may as well host the world cup on the moon.

Really? Countries like sweden, canada, denmark, switzerland, germany, uk and holland are first world democracies that have very high standards of living, they respect human rights and treat minorities well. They also have first world installations and infrastructure. Their history is certainly not spotless, but we can say that in the last couple of decades these countries havnt invaded other countries just for the funsies (notable exception with the uk invading iraq).

In fact i'm more disgusted with the upcoming world cup in Russia, a country that has a leader whose daily agenda is asking himself "how can i make the world a shittier place today?". If Putin can get a world cup then i say all standards are off and we might as well host it in north korea next time.

Pretty close-minded view of Putin. I dont see him signing off on droning weddings in Yemen like certain countries.

He isnt worse than any other leader of a big country.

[chinomaster182]

If the World Cup should only be held in countries where there are no bad stuff happening we may as well host the world cup on the moon.

Really? Countries like sweden, canada, denmark, switzerland, germany, uk and holland are first world democracies that have very high standards of living, they respect human rights and treat minorities well. They also have first world installations and infrastructure. Their history is certainly not spotless, but we can say that in the last couple of decades these countries havnt invaded other countries just for the funsies (notable exception with the uk invading iraq).

In fact i'm more disgusted with the upcoming world cup in Russia, a country that has a leader whose daily agenda is asking himself "how can i make the world a shittier place today?". If Putin can get a world cup then i say all standards are off and we might as well host it in north korea next time.

Pretty close-minded view of Putin. I dont see him signing off on droning weddings in Yemen like certain countries.

He isnt worse than any other leader of a big country.

Like whom? I see no other big leaders regularly invading sovereign countries and annexing their territories, disregarding human rights for its citizens, getting reelected under real shady circumstances and overall leading a corrupt governent.

Yes,some big leaders have some of these traits, i see no other big leader which gathers them all.

[BeautifulGame]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2583721/MARTIN-SAMUEL-The-World-Cup-hosts-bed-terrorists.html

[Kaladin]

First of all, the "Kafala" system the Gulf employs is a disgusting system that at once locks the basic rights of anyone employed with it.

There is simply no shittier system in place for workers in almost anywhere in the world. People like bringing up China's sweatshop's ignoring two facts:

1- Those workers can leave more easily.
2- Those are Chinese workers working in China, not cut-off from any form of familiar support.

Second, Qatar is not worried about their human rights violations as much as they are worried about angering the much wealthier and much more powerful Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Not only have every political maneuver of Qatar backfired in their face, but now they are accused of both harboring the now proclaimed Terrorist organization (Mulsim Brotherhood) and funding terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda.

Third, Qatar is a country "invented" by English Colonials in the region and was never a historic site at all. Unlike the Bahrain region, Oman, Yemen, and Hijaz. Qatar is a conglomeration of tribes that one time did the bidding of the English against the Ottoman Empire. Pretending they have any unique "culture" is reinventing history.

Finally, Zealous is right in saying no place is free of corruption. Pointing at Russi is easy, but when you understand how Russian money is basically laundered in England, France, Switzerland, under the EU noses without any complaint from them, you realize that the bankrupt EU does not care as much about Russian human rights violations as much as they do about the money going through their lands.

What is this? The Middle East as a whole share similarties in terms of culture.The culture is very much based on Islamic tradition. Islam is the dominant influence inn day to day life. From clothing, to customs, to food, to almost bloody everything. The only major difference within the GCC countries is how they conservative/liberal they are when it comes to Islam.

No 'Unique Culture'? I beg to differ, remnants from old battles such as Zubara fortress, to one of the oldest man made markets in the form of Souq Waqif. Not to mention the rich history in Pearl Diving.

The only point that i can agree with in your post is the Kefala system. The rest is just bs, i just roflcoptered at the Al Qaeda part, we house the main US military HQ in Middle East. And we're hiding Al Qaeda from them? pls calm down JFK.

[Lord Spencer]

First of all, the "Kafala" system the Gulf employs is a disgusting system that at once locks the basic rights of anyone employed with it.

There is simply no shittier system in place for workers in almost anywhere in the world. People like bringing up China's sweatshop's ignoring two facts:

1- Those workers can leave more easily.
2- Those are Chinese workers working in China, not cut-off from any form of familiar support.

Second, Qatar is not worried about their human rights violations as much as they are worried about angering the much wealthier and much more powerful Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Not only have every political maneuver of Qatar backfired in their face, but now they are accused of both harboring the now proclaimed Terrorist organization (Mulsim Brotherhood) and funding terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda.

Third, Qatar is a country "invented" by English Colonials in the region and was never a historic site at all. Unlike the Bahrain region, Oman, Yemen, and Hijaz. Qatar is a conglomeration of tribes that one time did the bidding of the English against the Ottoman Empire. Pretending they have any unique "culture" is reinventing history.

Finally, Zealous is right in saying no place is free of corruption. Pointing at Russi is easy, but when you understand how Russian money is basically laundered in England, France, Switzerland, under the EU noses without any complaint from them, you realize that the bankrupt EU does not care as much about Russian human rights violations as much as they do about the money going through their lands.

What is this? The Middle East as a whole share similarties in terms of culture.The culture is very much based on Islamic tradition. Islam is the dominant influence inn day to day life. From clothing, to customs, to food, to almost bloody everything. The only major difference within the GCC countries is how they conservative/liberal they are when it comes to Islam.

No 'Unique Culture'? I beg to differ, remnants from old battles such as Zubara fortress, to one of the oldest man made markets in the form of Souq Waqif. Not to mention the rich history in Pearl Diving.

The only point that i can agree with in your post is the Kefala system. The rest is just bs, i just roflcoptered at the Al Qaeda part, we house the main US military HQ in Middle East. And we're hiding Al Qaeda from them? pls calm down JFK.

Souq Waqef existed in Qatif more than 2000 years ago. Pearl diving and such is a characteristic of Bahrain region, which consists of the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia. Qatar was never a well known region, or even a named region in the province until England charted their borders. None for that matter were the U.A.E and Kuwait (which is a part of Iraq historically). Qatar is not unique in Culture from Bahrain or U.A.E for instance.

Also, I was not saying the allegations are true, but the Saudi Arabian press and government are basically claiming Qatar is funding terrorist organizations, and that they are harboring The Muslim Brotherhood (not Al-Qaeda). These might not be true, but what is true that Qatar is currently in a very isoated political position with Saudi basically accusing them of assassination attempts against Saudi officials, as well as "interfering" with the governments of the gulf. Three gulf countries pulled their ambassadors from Qatar now.

[Guest]

Really? Countries like sweden, canada, denmark, switzerland, germany, uk and holland are first world democracies that have very high standards of living, they respect human rights and treat minorities well. They also have first world installations and infrastructure. Their history is certainly not spotless, but we can say that in the last couple of decades these countries havnt invaded other countries just for the funsies (notable exception with the uk invading iraq).

In fact i'm more disgusted with the upcoming world cup in Russia, a country that has a leader whose daily agenda is asking himself "how can i make the world a shittier place today?". If Putin can get a world cup then i say all standards are off and we might as well host it in north korea next time.

Pretty close-minded view of Putin. I dont see him signing off on droning weddings in Yemen like certain countries.

He isnt worse than any other leader of a big country.

Like whom? I see no other big leaders regularly invading sovereign countries and annexing their territories, disregarding human rights for its citizens, getting reelected under real shady circumstances and overall leading a corrupt governent.

Yes,some big leaders have some of these traits, i see no other big leader which gathers them all.

Crimea wanted to be a part of Russia though, and it has historically been a part of them.

It was the neonazis who were trespassing on the civil rights of russians in Crimea.

[che]

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/over-900-workers-have-already-died-building-qatars-world-cup-facilities-180950088/?no-ist

more good news

please zealous tell us more about how having a projected construction death toll in the thousands is acceptable for a world cup bid

[Lord Spencer]

FFS, people didn't die in this number while constructing projects since the bloody Crusades.

[sportsczy]

You haven't seen Chinese construction projects...  they just leave them.  Pour concrete over the bodies and it becomes part of the building foundation.  I'll never forget checking out a potential building site along the river in Macau and seeing a body washed up ashore...  it was unbelievable.  This was in 2006.

When the US was modernizing itself in the 20s and 30s, i hope i don't have to tell you 1000s of people that died in the coal mines and the building projects in large cities.  Even when slavery was abolished in the US...  it never went away until the civil rights movement of the 60s brought the issue to light.

The UK... should i bring up the plight of the Irish?

How about the white terror in Spain?

The colonial impact on Africa how it has led to the current atrocities is well documented as well.

Are the living conditions and mortality rates better in the favelas all across South America?

So before you point the finger at someone else, point it at yourself first.  None of it is excusable.  But the hypocrisy is unreal here... Qatar is going through its industrial revolution and there have always been issues with a hyper rate of growth.

[mr-r34]

Some of the peoples defense of Qatar here is a bloody joke, were in the 21st century not early 1900's.

[Adit]

This...all others did it before so we are doing it now mentality is pathetic and any one who trying to justifying it are pathetic too.

Guess back in the day pedophilia was normal thing does that mean it is ok to practice it now? what a barbaric mentality some are showing here.

We are in 2014 ,end off. Anything happening should be measured according to the current time not some 60 years ago BS.

90% of the countries provide better living condition to their Imigrant workers than Qatar...that is the real problem.

900 people dead.. .inbefore everybody did it before so we are doing now mentality LOL..absolutely hilarious way to justify that shit country's wrong doings.

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