OT: Madrid's Transfer Policy

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:39 am

I really don't understand it. They buy players but these do not fill neither depth, nor new qualities, nor prove to be a major improvement on any position?

ATTN Madrid fans: as always, you are welcomed here to dialogue with us, and present us with your insight, but not to troll. Post wisely.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:44 am

what do you want to know?
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Post by the xcx Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:49 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I really don't understand it. They buy players but these do not fill neither depth, nor new qualities, nor prove to be a major improvement on any position?

ATTN Madrid fans: as always, you are welcomed here to dialogue with us, and present us with your insight, but not to troll. Post wisely.
Im a bit confused here, so help me out. You want to know why we buy so many players who have qualities and talent or we sign players who have neither of those aspects. confused
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Post by the xcx Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:54 am

@The xcx wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:I really don't understand it. They buy players but these do not fill neither depth, nor new qualities, nor prove to be a major improvement on any position?

ATTN Madrid fans: as always, you are welcomed here to dialogue with us, and present us with your insight, but not to troll. Post wisely.
Im a bit confused here, so help me out. You want to know why we buy so many players who have qualities and talent or we sign players who have neither of those aspects. confused
And why is this thread in barcas section?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:00 am

Because Barca's transfer policy is 'buy a forward and Cesc' Rolling Eyes

I'm confused as to what exactly players of the caliber of Sahin and Coentrao bring to the squad that they didn't have before.
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Post by the xcx Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:05 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Because Barca's transfer policy is 'buy a forward and Cesc' Rolling Eyes

I'm confused as to what exactly players of the caliber of Sahin and Coentrao bring to the squad that they didn't have before.
Well, you kinda forgot to wrote that, atleast when it comes to transfers, we dont troll around Cool
Oh yea and the word Caliber is wrong to describe Sahin and Coentrao. Just sayin, bro.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:05 am

Well, Alfred, a lot of what we did this season was replacing players with others with a different or wider skillset, and actually adding depth to the liking of mourinho.

It's nothing revolutionary. for ex, Leon is getting replaced by Callejon, because he is more versatile he is and more skillful.

Let's say Altintop is going to take Canales role in the rotation; his experience, versatility, professionalism, commitment etc, all come into play. He is more a mourinho like player, and we avoid hurting Canales' development.

Gago is self explanatory, and Sahin is coming into play not only as a better player, but also as a natural successor to Xabi down the line. Sahin is a freak player, he is more of a midfield general than Gago can dream of, and will bring that advanced playmaking we lacked in the double pivot (risky) or trivote. Tremendous passer and leader from the middle, always thinking aheadim glad, we signed a player like that.

Only Coentrao is puzzling. if he is gonna play as RB, it's a pretty big gamble, but if he is competing with Marcelo, it's very stupid.

Varane is coming in because we had to make a defensive signing by next season regardless, i still question putting him in the first team right now. with Lass leaving, it gives options to play Pepe as a DM more often if we need. Varane also can play DM and CB.

For a long while i thought Mourinho would try to replace Benzema with Kun, but i havent heard much about it since.

Neymar is more a caprice from Florentino, who is seeing a exceptional young talent and dont want to miss out on the next best thing. Barca did inherit luckily, two of the greatest players of all time in succession, quite rare, but it took you pretty high. I couldnt call it the most useful transfer but if it does happen, Benzema can also find himself on the losing end, with Ronaldo being used a lot more like a CF, which is actually what mourinho prefers.

you cant tell we arent adding quality. Whether it's Callejon, Varane, Sahin, Kun/Neymar, Coentrao, they all bring a lot of versatility. One aspect of our recruitment was to look for very hardworking and ballsy players, and we got that covered as well.

hope it gives you somewhat of a response.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:13 am

That's interesting Nick. Thanks for your thoughts. So in your opinion it is (mostly) replacing players? As a transfer policy I suppose replacing depth players with better depth players makes sense. What I'm now wondering is whether these signings add significantly enough quality to this Madrid side in order to compete, and possibly snatch, more titles from Barca?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:18 am

@The xcx wrote:
Oh yea and the word Caliber is wrong to describe Sahin and Coentrao. Just sayin, bro.

Why not?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caliber?show=0&t=1310282233
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:26 am

Yes, it's a lot of replacing. some of the most sensible signings, are those of Sahin and Coentrao for example. IF the later adapts on the right, he has the skillset to run back and forth all game long on the wing, specially on counter to bring the ball up in a couple of seconds. Sahin can help the build up play and help us retain the ball in the middle while picking up runs into space, he excels at it. It's less muscle, but still an enormous amount of work rate from Sahin and Coentrao alike. They are all a bunch of work horses (Callejon and Altintop inlcuded), that's why i think Team pressure will be even more crucial for us this time around. Kun is known to give nightmares to barca back line, you guys know why his skillset is such an issue for barca, i thought mourinho was on that wavelength, and wouldnt mind replacing Benzema at all.

Well, beating you is more of a mental thing for us at first. then there is the football, the way you play etc.., stringing passes, retaining possession a bit more to have you back off, those kind of things. We still have work to do on those things. Reports from our camp are telling us that mou never really tried to develop the attacking game so much, but focused on the structure, gave the guidelines and discipline, and let the players work it out on the pitch. Explains the lack of rotation in the first couple of month and that kind of things.

Pipe dreams or not, i do think we can still make significant improvement about our pressing game, the way we defend and try to choke spaces. We toyed a little with it against Sevilla, Villarreal etc... There is room for a lot of things to improve, that much im convinced off. Improving the build up and linking game can take us a long way, we have the countering game down already.

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Post by Omniscient Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:46 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:fill neither depth

Varane, Altintop

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:new qualities

Coentrao, Callejon

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:major improvement

Sahin

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Post by Albiceleste Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:20 pm

Sahin is a deep lying playmaker, you have Gago for that, which was hardly ever on the pitch, why should Sahin be any different?

Coentrao and Callejon, you have Kaka Canales and Marcelo for that.

Altintop I have no idea why he was bought, is that your 7th midfielder?

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Post by guest7 Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:37 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:Sahin is a deep lying playmaker, you have Gago for that, which was hardly ever on the pitch, why should Sahin be any different?

Coentrao and Callejon, you have Kaka Canales and Marcelo for that.

Altintop I have no idea why he was bought, is that your 7th midfielder?

You do know all the posts above you are answering your questions?
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Post by Guest Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:42 pm

Gago would get hurt brushing his teeth for Madrid and he's nowhere near the player Sahin is, even at this current level of development.

Also keep in mind the age of the players we're bringing in: very, very young. We are putting together a young core of players that we hope will play together for several years. Coentrao, Marcelo, Ramos, Sahin, Benzema, Varane, Di Maria, Khedira, Ozil, Higuain, etc. are all 24 years or younger.

Quite different recruitment for Madrid. It actually makes sense for us fans, except for Coentrao... Mou must really feel supremely confident that either Marcelo or Ceontrao can move to RB. Ramos to CB is a no brainer.

As far as how we match up with Barca with these changes:
- Sahin creates a 3rd creative passer on the field. Alonso and Ozil were not enough and Barca just had to bracket those guys to disrupt everything for us. That's no longer possible.
- With Coentrao/Di Maria on the right, we are no longer a left dominant team. You could tilt you defense a bit to cover for Marcelo and CR7. That's no longer possible either. The extra passer in Sahin makes this tilt even less plausible.
- Most of our players can play all across the field now. And we have great depth in case someone gets hurt.

Neymar is not going to come in until January or next year. Not even worth mentioning right now. He's that uber talent the Uncle Flo feels he needs to get. We'll see.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:01 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:Sahin is a deep lying playmaker, you have Gago for that, which was hardly ever on the pitch, why should Sahin be any different?

Coentrao and Callejon, you have Kaka Canales and Marcelo for that.

Altintop I have no idea why he was bought, is that your 7th midfielder?

please, dont compare gago and sahin, lol. Gago isnt a playmaker per say, he has more things in common with Busquets than he has with Xabi. difference is, he has better playmaking skills. That's how far the comparison goes, he isnt in the same class of talent as Sahin, unfortunately for him. The club has grown tired of not being able to count on him, he is stagnating in his progress, and i dont think mourinho sees him as someone that can help him win.

our objective is to have 20 feld players + 3 gk, simple. trying to double each position, and have as many versatile players as we can. we have a couple of injury prone guys, so it helps.
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Post by free_cat Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:53 pm

It's a bit puzzling, I agree.

Callejon is a bad player. Not even good as a Madrid sub.
Altintop is average, IMO doesn't improve their bench either (P. Leon).
Varane, never heard of him before they signed him. I doubt that if he is good enough for Madrid if he escaped the radar of all other european clubs.
Coentrao is a stupid signing as a LB, and a big gamble if they signed him to play as RB or in the wings (RB untested, in the wings he failed at Zaragoza).
Sahin is the only player that looks like a very good signing, but we'll see.
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Post by the xcx Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:46 am

@free_cat wrote:It's a bit puzzling, I agree.

Callejon is a bad player. Not even good as a Madrid sub.
Callejon is better, faster, more versatile than Leon ever going to be.
Altintop is average, IMO doesn't improve their bench either (P. Leon).
He was brought because of versatility, he can play as defender to midfielder.
Varane, never heard of him before they signed him. I doubt that if he is good enough for Madrid if he escaped the radar of all other european clubs.
Lool, nice one, you just showed how little you know outside barcelona, He was linked with Manchester United and Chelsea.
Coentrao is a stupid signing as a LB, and a big gamble if they signed him to play as RB or in the wings (RB untested, in the wings he failed at Zaragoza).
Ever heard a word of a improvement?, I call this one "wait and see", he can surprise us.
Sahin is the only player that looks like a very good signing, but we'll see.
We shall see indeed.
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Post by Albiceleste Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:52 am

Aren't these the same people that said Marcelo was supposed to be the 'best LB in the world'?

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Post by the xcx Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:54 am

Lionel Messi wrote:Aren't these the same people that said Marcelo was supposed to be the 'best LB in the world'?
What do you mean by that? Explain.
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Post by Albiceleste Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:10 am

@The xcx wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:Aren't these the same people that said Marcelo was supposed to be the 'best LB in the world'?
What do you mean by that? Explain.
I've seen people on this forum call Marcelo the best LB in the world

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Post by the xcx Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:13 am

Lionel Messi wrote:
@The xcx wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:Aren't these the same people that said Marcelo was supposed to be the 'best LB in the world'?
What do you mean by that? Explain.
I've seen people on this forum call Marcelo the best LB in the world
Well everyone likes to rate their own players high, nothing wrong with that. Marcelo isint the best LB in the world, he still has thing or two to improve, defensive capabilities in big games are questionable.
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Post by ChollaVille Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:43 am

We have better players in our B team than Callejon, Altintop and Varane LOL.

Coentrao is good signing, now they have Marcelo and Coentrao on the LB. For club it is good to have 2 very good players on one position, for players it is not, becouse they will play less. €30M is to much for the bench player if you ask me, but if they have money, well better for them. Even we are going to pay €30M or moe for the bench player (Fabregas, Sanchez, Rossi).

Same thing for Sahin, he is bought like Mascherano, for bench.

It is new era of football, before top teams had 11 A class players + few B class players and other were C class. Now top teams tend to have 15+ A class players, and B class other players.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:58 am

You dont have better player than Callejon, varane or Altintop in your B team.

Nowadays, way too often we make the mistake of rating players against each other, even against players that have proven themselves already, by talent alone. Im sure your B team is very good, then again, it's the adelante division, far from what la primera offers. Top dogs in adelante become bottom feeder in primera.

Let's not make the same mistake here, while the kids in your academy are very talented, and doing well down there, i cant compare them to a player like Callejon that is already a much better rounded professional and experienced footballer. Maybe some of those kids will go higher in football than Callejon, but i remember how good Espnyol is, and how important Callejon is in their team, and i make no illusion here. For the moment they clearly arent. It's so easy to flop nowadays, talent isnt everything.

Same thing with Altintop, it's not even a discussion at this point. I realize how many here dont know who Varane is, it's ok if you dont follow La ligue 1. He started playing in ligue 1 at just 17 yo, and turn out such mature performances than he caught the eye of the some of the best talent spotter in europe. I feel good about knowing that Fergusson was taking a lot if interest, but we beat them to him. Im sure the likes of bartra and all are talented, but Varane, even for half a season, beasted a defensively stronger league in france, and played up to par to the likes of Sakho, arguably the best CB in france.

You couldnt be more wrong about Sahin...

I feel good about some of our signings, we did a great job on adding intangibles. Things like work rate, competitiveness, discipline, fighting spirit, commitment etc... not easy to weight on youtube, but then again, i look at a man utd side that accomplished so much with so little talent, and i realize the full effect of such things.
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Post by Albiceleste Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:43 am

Why is Varane better than Muniesa or Fontas?

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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:11 am

Lionel Messi wrote:Why is Varane better than Muniesa or Fontas?

why are muniesa or fontas better than varane?

Look, it's my own opinion, they are all kids, i have hardly ever seen fontas and muniesa, but even if we were talking kids of similar talent level, i would rate Varane higher. simply because he played top flight football in a very tough and physical league, and did more than standing out. Not because of his age, although it's impressive, but because of how well he was performing his tasks.

we can go back and forth with this, it's not gonna get us anywhere, you guys will be biased about your youth, and will be the same with Varane.

The point is, critics only arise on the issue because there is a lack of knowledge about the kid. I am only taking the time here to give my perspective, not to engage in a trench fight.

We bought Varane because our scouting department saw something very special in him. The combination of his athleticism, with his ability to read the game and keep his composure at all times, given his age, had us believe that he was a very unique boy, and we signed him. We were going to replace Carvalho by next year, we did it now.



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