[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

goonbrain wrote:

M99 wrote:Wow they showed RobbWind

Kinda surprised at no Lady Stoneheart.

Did you seriously expect them to bring Lady Stoneheart so early? Introducing her in the epilogue had a great effect for the readers. I would expect them to reveal her in the late episodes of season 4, preferably the finale. The viewers need time to completely let go of Robb and Cat. Bringing her this early would undo all the things that the RW had done on the viewers. They would totally forget them by the end of season 4 because of the introduction of new great characters and the uncountable wtf moments. Imagine the shock when one of the most impressive/hated characters in the show returns as a merciless zombie?

I am sure that the next season will be better

Weakest finale yet as there was no epic cliffhanger. Season 1 dragons. Season 2, white walker. Season 3...that's why I expected Lady Stoneheart. Or at least some hints or implications. The timeline fits and Season 4 will end with Jon being Lord Commander, Arya going to Braavos, Tyrion escaping, Dany ruling Meeren etc.

M99 wrote:

goonbrain wrote:

M99 wrote:Wow they showed RobbWind

Kinda surprised at no Lady Stoneheart.

Did you seriously expect them to bring Lady Stoneheart so early? Introducing her in the epilogue had a great effect for the readers. I would expect them to reveal her in the late episodes of season 4, preferably the finale. The viewers need time to completely let go of Robb and Cat. Bringing her this early would undo all the things that the RW had done on the viewers. They would totally forget them by the end of season 4 because of the introduction of new great characters and the uncountable wtf moments. Imagine the shock when one of the most impressive/hated characters in the show returns as a merciless zombie?

I am sure that the next season will be better

Weakest finale yet as there was no epic cliffhanger. Season 1 dragons. Season 2, white walker. Season 3...that's why I expected Lady Stoneheart. Or at least some hints or implications. The timeline fits and Season 4 will end with Jon being Lord Commander, Arya going to Braavos, Tyrion escaping, Dany ruling Meeren etc.

Honestly I didn't expect Lady Stoneheart but I did expect to see Coldhands meet with Bran and his crew in the final scene of the episode it would have left people with a lot more to talk about instead of that final scene which was in my opinion a huge disappointment.

http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/

made me upset all over again. i might've been more mad at GRRM for that scene than i was for the red wedding.

Re-reading the books makes you feel stupider and stupider by the minute. The amount of foreshadowing is ridiculous.

stevieg8 wrote:http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/

made me upset all over again. i might've been more mad at GRRM for that scene than i was for the red wedding.

And we have to wait 2 seasons for this scene

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

stevieg8 wrote:http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/

made me upset all over again. i might've been more mad at GRRM for that scene than i was for the red wedding.

And we have to wait 2 seasons for this scene

Should be next season.

Red Viper vs The Mountain is next season 100%. Martin said of new character, Oberyn Martell will be cast in season 4.

'Game of Thrones' casts major season 4 role: Oberyn the Red Viper



The most anticipated new role coming to the fourth season of Game of Thrones has been filled.

Prince Oberyn Martell will be played by Chilean actor Pedro Pascal, who has previously had arcs on CBS’ The Good Wife, ABC’s Red Widow and USA’s Graceland.

For those who haven’t read the books, here’s a spoiler-free description of the character: Oberyn is a brash, charming, cunning prince of Dorne (part of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros). His sister Elia was brutally murdered by the Lannister knight Gregor “The Mountain” Clegane when Mad King Aerys was overthrown by Robert Baratheon and the Lannisters. In season four, Oberyn comes to King’s Landing with revenge on his mind.

Also: Nearly every Thrones character has a nickname and Oberyn has one of the coolest: The Red Viper.

“This was a tough one,” say showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss about the casting. “The Red Viper is sexy and charming, yet believably dangerous; intensely likable, yet driven by hate. The boys love him, the girls love him, and he loves them all back. Unless your last name is Lannister. We found a fellow who can handle the job description and make it seem effortless. He wasn’t easy to find and he won’t be easy to stop.”

HBO hasn’t yet announced its Comic-Con plans, but if you’re headed to San Diego, it’s safe to assume Thrones will have a presence this year. Game of Thrones returns in 2014.

Martin calls Joffery "the little shit" in some of his interviews, even he hates him and called killing him one of the easiest deaths he ever wrote

Just finished reading AFFC+ADWD again. The complete lack of others and relatively lack of dragons in a book called "dance of dragons" has left a sour taste on my mouth, again.

So after finishing up A Dance With Dragons not less than a month ago, I'm too excited now for Winds of Winter.... which is bad, seeing as how long it'll take for Martin to finish writing

Thoughts on what'll come:

On another note, how are those of you who've read the books looking forward to Season 4 of the TV series? Producers are saying that it'll be the most epic season yet, what with that Red Viper vs. Mountain battle coming up among others. One scene in particular should be epic (and really depressing)

Spoiler:

archwooohh wrote:So after finishing up A Dance With Dragons not less than a month ago, I'm too excited now for Winds of Winter.... which is bad, seeing as how long it'll take for Martin to finish writing

Thoughts on what'll come:

On another note, how are those of you who've read the books looking forward to Season 4 of the TV series? Producers are saying that it'll be the most epic season yet, what with that Red Viper vs. Mountain battle coming up among others. One scene in particular should be epic (and really depressing)

Spoiler:

you don't need spoiler tags in here, this thread is for those who have finished all books. but yeah the ygritte seen really upset me, especially when it came right after the red wedding

archwooohh wrote:So after finishing up A Dance With Dragons not less than a month ago, I'm too excited now for Winds of Winter.... which is bad, seeing as how long it'll take for Martin to finish writing

Thoughts on what'll come:

On another note, how are those of you who've read the books looking forward to Season 4 of the TV series? Producers are saying that it'll be the most epic season yet, what with that Red Viper vs. Mountain battle coming up among others. One scene in particular should be epic (and really depressing)

Spoiler:

I expect a lot of people to die in tWoW. I think this will be similar to aSoS where quite a lot of shit goes down a lot of blood is spilled.

The ones I think who are going to get offed are:
- Brienne (She will die for Jaime)
- Victarion (I do doubt if Dany would fall in love with him and say 'yes' to his proposal. I hope he dies in the most spectacular way possible)
-Littlefinger or Robert or both (Sansa killing Littlefinger by giving him a taste of his own medicine. All Sansa haters at this point bow down in utmost respect)
-Areo Hotah (can see him getting killed off somehow. People has to be killed off to make space for aDoS so that more people can be killed.)
-Lord Walder Frey(Martin pls. He lived enough)
-Jon Connington (Grayscale or no)
-A lot of people at Essos which includes Hizdahr la deLoraq (thanks to Victarion and Dany)
-A lot of people at Night's Watch.

I read the books. Finaly, spoiler free  

I followed BC's advice and read the combined version of the last books , called "A Ball of Beasts". With a few words , a great read , couldn't stop reading when possible.

Now where the f to begin with  I almost spoiled it for myself a month or so ago , when StevieG8 and i were talking about Aegon's hair and Jon's parents e.t.c

Thankfully , i had a nice wtf moment when i read the lines were Tyrion had figured out the identity of the Griffs , young and old . Amazing storyline , i enjoyed reading about Jon Connington and Aegon's journey thus far. Can't wait to read more in Winds , though i am afraid House Lannister will suffer from the young dragon now that Kevan's gone..

So many have died . One day , i'd like to know the closest to the actual number of deaths throughout the entire series , that would be an interesting statistic lol. So much to talk about , don't know where to start.

Many answers and double the questions ..

Victarion, is he going to be Dany's Grand Admiral or his ships are just the means for Daenerys's army to invade Westeros ?

Reznak, the perfumed seneschal she must beware of..we almost certainly know he is a son of the Harpy , if not the Harpy herself. or is it Littlefinger and GRRM is going to fk our minds in the future ?

Will Aegon conquer all , especialy without Dragons ? What if Daenerys doesn't believe that he is the true Aegon ? What if she thinks her dragons are hers and only hers ?

What of Bran ? Still can't get what he's supposed to do as a Greenseer. Coldhands ? Leaf said "they killed him long ago" , so he can't be Benjen Stark. Mayhaps a lord commander of the Night's Watch ?

Theon is free again , only to find his sister who's a captive of Stannis , therefore he'll be a captive as well. Theon knows about what's happening inside Winterfell and is the only person other than Ramsay , Roose and Jeyne who knows she's not Arya . He will tell all that to Stannis , but to what end ?

What about Jon Snow ? Dead ? Dead and resurected by Melissandre ? btw , that should win her Jon ..Does he Survive but still vulnerable and unable to command for a time?

Euron Greyjoy . Endgame material here. The only man to return from the ruins of Valyria , what is he really now ? How could he have done this and with good proof as well ?

And Littlefinger.. can't even begin to tell what he is up to. Robert will die , alright , then Sansa will marry Harry the heir and be revealed as Sansa Stark.. So? He's instantly branded as a traitor the moment it gets known. He needs to wait , perhaps for Aegon to sit the Iron Throne first..And even then.. how is he going to give her the North ? It is hers by right , though Rickon is still alive. One thing is for certain ; Can't fkn wait to find out . I want Littlefinger chapters so bad in WoW , but i know it ain't gonna happen.

Varys.. varys can suck cks . He has almost destroyed House Lannister and i am certain he's in league with Quborn. Quborn lurks in his places and Varys will certainly have known this for a good while. Himself Quborn has said that Vary's birds came to him.. not to far fetched to think Varys bought him over , especialy if Varys let him do his thing in the dungeons . Elsewise , Varys let Quborn learn whatever he had learned through his birds , with the sole purpose to tell the Queen what he intented.

Finaly ,Catelyn Stark aka fkn Lady Stoneheart can eat my stone qoq.And to think that i liked Dondarion -sigh-

I hope Jaime kills her somehow .. that's going to happen lol. idk. Hope she dies like Vargo Hoat , worse even. As for Jaime .. he either returns back in King's Landing as soon as possible and does something to prevent the end of House Lannister or Stoneheart will kill him. Cercei.. that golden cu:) of hers has suffered too much to maintain the same kind of power she used to have.. Now that Kevan's dead and Cercei will most probably be provent innocent by Ser Robert Strong(G.Clegane).. i believe she will play a more subtle game this time. And it will be either hers and House Lannister ends or the end of the Tyrells. One of them will destroy the other .

One last thing . Now that House Lannister is practicaly headless , what do you think it will happen with the Lannisters and Casterly Rock ? Tommen has enemies everywhere and Tywin , Kevan and Tyrion are gone . Cercei has fkd everything up and Jaime is in serious danger , now that Brienne has betrayed him . I think all that Tywin won over the years for House Lannister , are in serious scrutinity. Mayhaps is time for Gerion Lannister to return from the 'grave' , a much changed man , with a lot to give to House Lannister? Although , would it make any sense ?

I'm of the opinion that Sansa will never marry Harry the Heir and that Littlefinger will instead try to marry her. I'm excited to see how (or if) Sansa evolves into a player of the game.

GRRM leaks WOW spoilers. Click at your own risk:

Spoiler:

  Do I click the link or not!

OK i clicked nearly instantly after posting. And seriously that's not a spoiler. Who didn't know that? In fact we kinda know what will happen too.

alright i'm gonna go point by point with my opinions on all of these, maybe we can start some healthy debate

Dante wrote:I read the books. Finaly, spoiler free  

I followed BC's advice and read the combined version of the last books , called "A Ball of Beasts". With a few words , a great read , couldn't stop reading when possible.

Now where the f to begin with  I almost spoiled it for myself a month or so ago , when StevieG8 and i were talking about Aegon's hair and Jon's parents e.t.c

Thankfully , i had a nice wtf moment when i read the lines were Tyrion had figured out the identity of the Griffs , young and old . Amazing storyline , i enjoyed reading about Jon Connington and Aegon's journey thus far. Can't wait to read more in Winds , though i am afraid House Lannister will suffer from the young dragon now that Kevan's gone..

didn't realize you hadn't found out who aegon was yet, i'm so glad i didn't ruin everything for you

So many have died . One day , i'd like to know the closest to the actual number of deaths throughout the entire series , that would be an interesting statistic lol. So much to talk about , don't know where to start.

Many answers and double the questions ..

Victarion, is he going to be Dany's Grand Admiral or his ships are just the means for Daenerys's army to invade Westeros ?

Reznak, the perfumed seneschal she must beware of..we almost certainly know he is a son of the Harpy , if not the Harpy herself. or is it Littlefinger and GRRM is going to fk our minds in the future ?

Will Aegon conquer all , especialy without Dragons ? What if Daenerys doesn't believe that he is the true Aegon ? What if she thinks her dragons are hers and only hers ?

a lot of people are saying he's the cloth dragon she sees in her vision, but i think she tests him somehow and he becomes one of the heads of the dragon. but then again, i'm balls deep in camp aegon for the iron throne, so i guess we'll see.

What of Bran ? Still can't get what he's supposed to do as a Greenseer. Coldhands ? Leaf said "they killed him long ago" , so he can't be Benjen Stark. Mayhaps a lord commander of the Night's Watch ?

i'm also very curious to see where bran's story goes. tons of different directions they can take it, but i think it'll be very interesting to see him influence the story from afar and observe the entire world from his perch. on the other hand, the possible deaths of jojen and meera made me very sad.

Theon is free again , only to find his sister who's a captive of Stannis , therefore he'll be a captive as well. Theon knows about what's happening inside Winterfell and is the only person other than Ramsay , Roose and Jeyne who knows she's not Arya . He will tell all that to Stannis , but to what end ?

What about Jon Snow ? Dead ? Dead and resurected by Melissandre ? btw , that should win her Jon ..Does he Survive but still vulnerable and unable to command for a time?

i'm fairly certain on this one, because of the prologue which showed us it was possible - i think jon snow physically died, and warged into ghost, where he currently resides. melisandre will be his path back to a human body, and that could create a deeper tie there somehow.

Euron Greyjoy . Endgame material here. The only man to return from the ruins of Valyria , what is he really now ? How could he have done this and with good proof as well ?

really hate the lack of information we have on this guy, i'm unbelievably curious.

And Littlefinger.. can't even begin to tell what he is up to. Robert will die , alright , then Sansa will marry Harry the heir and be revealed as Sansa Stark.. So? He's instantly branded as a traitor the moment it gets known. He needs to wait , perhaps for Aegon to sit the Iron Throne first..And even then.. how is he going to give her the North ? It is hers by right , though Rickon is still alive. One thing is for certain ; Can't fkn wait to find out . I want Littlefinger chapters so bad in WoW , but i know it ain't gonna happen.

well its clear his goal is the throne itself, so maybe he's hoping to use sansa+restless northmen/allies in the eyrie/harrenhal to mount a physical attack on a weakened tommen?

Varys.. varys can suck cks . He has almost destroyed House Lannister and i am certain he's in league with Quborn. Quborn lurks in his places and Varys will certainly have known this for a good while. Himself Quborn has said that Vary's birds came to him.. not to far fetched to think Varys bought him over , especialy if Varys let him do his thing in the dungeons . Elsewise , Varys let Quborn learn whatever he had learned through his birds , with the sole purpose to tell the Queen what he intented.

hadn't thought of qyburn being a plant, he seems very pro-lannister to me, but the possibility is very interesting. not sure how you can hate on varys, though, he's the most impressive/powerful character in the series and does it for the good of the common folk/realm rather than his own power. varys is by far my favorite character.

Finaly ,Catelyn Stark aka fkn Lady Stoneheart can eat my stone qoq.And to think that i liked Dondarion -sigh-

I hope Jaime kills her somehow .. that's going to happen lol. idk. Hope she dies like Vargo Hoat , worse even. As for Jaime .. he either returns back in King's Landing as soon as possible and does something to prevent the end of House Lannister or Stoneheart will kill him. Cercei.. that golden cu:) of hers has suffered too much to maintain the same kind of power she used to have.. Now that Kevan's dead and Cercei will most probably be provent innocent by Ser Robert Strong(G.Clegane).. i believe she will play a more subtle game this time. And it will be either hers and House Lannister ends or the end of the Tyrells. One of them will destroy the other .

another one i'm certain on - i think jamie is the brother prophecied to kill cersei, not tyrion. it seems like a twist that grrm would love to toss in there, and their relationship has not been doing well lately. i think he causes her downfall sometime soon. in the meantime, i think she gets cleared through robert strong, but has no power afterwards... no way someone who's been through what she has can rule effectively.

One last thing . Now that House Lannister is practicaly headless , what do you think it will happen with the Lannisters and Casterly Rock ? Tommen has enemies everywhere and Tywin , Kevan and Tyrion are gone . Cercei has fkd everything up and Jaime is in serious danger , now that Brienne has betrayed him . I think all that Tywin won over the years for House Lannister , are in serious scrutinity. Mayhaps is time for Gerion Lannister to return from the 'grave' , a much changed man , with a lot to give to House Lannister? Although , would it make any sense ?

i think house lannister is finished... i think one of the major themes of the first 5 books has been how tywin, for all his success in playing the game of thrones, failed by being unable to create his dynasty - the only thing that matters. his insistence on the family name, rather than his actual family, means that once he's gone his legacy will be worthless, since he raised one child intent on valor in fighting (leading to a white cloak), one child who he ignored as worthless (leading to exile and betrayal, and his death), and one child who was pampered and handed things but never taught to succeed (leading to massive mistakes costing them the realm). none of his children were equipped to succeed, and it is the reason he failed despite all his political successes.

:shock:didn't realize you hadn't found out who aegon was yet, i'm so glad i didn't ruin everything for you

You didn't spoil it , even though i was asking for it lol. I suppose i got confused with Jon Snow somewhere on the theories-road and all that , but thankfully i dodged a bullet here. The fact is , once i had been suspicious about Aegon or Rhaenys or both of them being alive somehow.. when Jon learned that Aemon was Aemon Targaryen , we learned that Viserys and Daenerys weren't really the last targaryens afterall. It struck me then but so much happened and thankfully i totaly forgot about it , but now in hindsight i realise why i had always given attention to "last dragon(s)" stuff . When i said that Ned could never hide a Targaryen children in the North , if he had the classic characteristics at least , it got me in serious suspisions that if Aegon was alive , it would be impossible to hide and so i dropped the scenario almost immidiately , thankfully. Didn't know they could dye their heir in Asoiaf, at least hadn't really paid attention lol.

a lot of people are saying he's the cloth dragon she sees in her vision, but i think she tests him somehow and he becomes one of the heads of the dragon. but then again, i'm balls deep in camp aegon for the iron throne, so i guess we'll see.

More than once it is mentioned that the dragon has 3 heads. I do not agree 100% , at least so far. Except the fact that one of the dragons can die as well , aside the fact that prophecies never really get 100% true , never mention Daenerys their mother having serious issues with them , the dragons have a will of their own and their power and arrogance will only grow and grow.. After a certain point , it will not be up to Dany to offer dragon tickets , if it's not already too late. If the dragons want a rider , they will choose themselves , if at all. I am surprised that none speaks of what Dany will think when she hears about Quentyn ; she will learn from Ser Barristan his plans and intentions. She will learn he wanted a dragon , that all he basicaly wanted was a dragon from her and not only that , but he would offer Pentos to the Tattered Prince , the same Pentos she declined to give because of Illyrio. I can easily see her becoming increasingly concerned about what would happen if any other had a dragon to sit on. Whom do you think Dany would give so much power , assuming she can do it this way or the other in the first place. Daenerys will be bulletproof about it when she learns what Quentyn did. When see knows about Victarions intentions . When see learns from Tyrion about Aegon and from Marwyn about the prophecies and such. Above all she wants to become a good queen and i firmly believe she will be reluctant to give any dragon ticket , to say the least , even to Aegon. Last on this but not least , i can't believe people who claim he's a fake. He's not a fake . Varys epilogue in DwD is enough proof to end this. The writer bothered too much with Targaryens to offer power to Blackfyres one day, a House nobody gives a sit about , both in Westeros and in reality. He's Rhaegar's son and definitely the prince that was promised . I thought Jon was that prince or Azor Ahai , just because i thought he was Rhaegar's son and i didn't even have a clue about it. There are other proofs and Varys's confession to Kevan is the definitely the purest one , but PwP/AA/both has definitely to do with Rhaegar , not Blackfyres.

i'm also very curious to see where bran's story goes.  tons of different directions they can take it, but i think it'll be very interesting to see him influence the story from afar and observe the entire world from his perch. on the other hand, the possible deaths of jojen and meera made me very sad.

Bran povs had me so excited when i read them. Turns out that the end result didn't satisfy me much. Ok , he'll become the Greenseer , but how could he possibly affect the war between the Others. By seeing through trees? He's been one from the beginning and his storyline still leads to nothing ; it is close to be ruined imo , if he stays there that is. I still like Bran and i will definitely follow with much interest , yet i don't agree that Greenseering will be his sole fate from now on, acting like a fake-demigod inside trees and birds and such. I can't see it . When he learns all what he must know , he must leave that cave. And for all that to happen , he needs the Reeds. They don't have a reason to exist in the books if Bran stays in that cave , but if Bran stays with Brynden Rivers , then his storyline will be done but for details and GRRM won't allow it , imo. So they will escort Bran to the Night's Watch , or somewhere i do not know. Bran can still do his Greenseering or whatever in Winterfell for all anybody cares .It's not him the Song of Ice and Fire is about , but he's important to abandon in a cave. Starks have a weirwood as well. Maybe rebuild Winterfell or the Wall if the Others break it , like the Builder Stark King? Brynden Rivers showed him the way and the Reeds will lead the way back.

On Jon being Rhaegar's son, I stumbled into this a while back. Finally found a Targaereyan without golden/silver hair.

http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/Baelor_Targaryen

Also on Aegon being a Blackfyre.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/p844r/adwd_spoilers_and_speculation_septon_meribald/

This is a serious foreshadowing.

i'm fairly certain on this one, because of the prologue which showed us it was possible - i think jon snow physically died, and warged into ghost, where he currently resides. melisandre will be his path back to a human body, and that could create a deeper tie there somehow.

I believe Jon Snow is far too important in the Asoiaf storyline and we can all safely assume he won't just 'die'. Perhaps he is Azor Ahai reborn afterall ? Melissandre will take Jon Ghost ,maybe his corpse too? drive them to Eastwatch and make a certain sacrifice or something near the sea and the new Jon would be Azor Ahai reborn , born amidst salt and smoke ? Born amidst Eastwatch and her nightfire . To be honest , i preffer the ham trololo

really hate the lack of information we have on this guy, i'm unbelievably curious.

We must have some info on Valyria. Can't be a fake . That horn cant be a fake , though i agree you could argue he could have gotten that from elsewhere. If he's a fake then Gerion must appear in the books , no way we don't know about current Valyria , something at least.Anyway, i think Euron is related to strong magic somehow , similar to Melissandre perhaps?! and there are already hints linking him with magic. We don't have concrete info yet , but i think he went as close to Valyria as possible , because too much evolve around him for all this to make him fake, though being as sity as he is , wouldn't surprise me tbh , just disappointment would be there. All we trully have against it is Victarion's thought , come to think of it . He's always suspicious of him, whatever it is that concerns Euron. And we know they hate each other . Victarion reminds me of the Ironman Cercei , sees what he wants to see most of the time. Euron on the other , is there for a higher purpose , though i must say nobody can safely assume what. Being the Iron King is enough i think , i doubt he will obtain the dragons he dreams of.

well its clear his goal is the throne itself, so maybe he's hoping to use sansa+restless northmen/allies in the eyrie/harrenhal to mount a physical attack on a weakened tommen?

Clear ? Well , certainly his ambition and will knows no limits and that can easily imply the Throne.Though he won't risk his life for it.. He understands he's not a high lord or king or heir ; Baelish knows that if he's going to play their way , he will lose . The battlefield is something he leaves for them to play . 'Their' game is conquering , battles , inheriting , glory even.. he will have to play most of the game elsewise. He's still not ready to reveal himself as an enemy of the Throne , and he won't unless the time is right . Aegon's quest will delay him for sure , but for sure he will definitely try and seize this new opportunity the game has presented him. I think Baelish will indeed marry Sansa to Harry , because that's the only way he will secure another "high piece" , the Vale , to his cause ; through Sansa. He has invested so much in the Vale in order for HIM to try and marry Sansa ; he knows that they will never accept him , he knows that this wedding would win him nothing , because Sansa on her own will have nothing to offer him(other than the occasional head ). But if he was to marry Sansa to the last heir of Jon Arryn after Sweetrobin is dead , practicaly giving Sansa means to play and the sweet prince she always dreamed of by her side ; she would then owe a life to Petyr Baelish from there after . Not only that , but she's being trained to become a player , then she will give her a cause to play ; win the North back and she will want it .. right there , he has planted another seed along the field . Thus securing two fronts with one particularly easy wedding it seems, since the the Lords Declarant of the Vale will not be able to refuse , after the Arryn line will be in danger and Sansa Stark is more than a suitable heir for the Lord of the Vale. He's an important lord now and he will remain Lord Protector of the Vale untill Harry the Heir comes of age , since his plans and plots will work in his way the coming year.. All these will have to wait though , because if he reveals Sansa now he will be branded as a traitor .

He must wait for the Lannisters to fall from grace. After planting the seeds for all that , he will be leaving Alayne and he will be returning in King's Landing as Master of Coin . Cercei will know by now that her follys have enraged the Iron Bank and they crossed the Crown for Stannis. Who better than to fix things aright than Littlefinger... and eventualy , it leaves room for Cercei to find out why he offered to marry Sansa Stark himself. We know of course . Littlefinger knew Tywin would refuse him . But this particularly bold move for Littlefinger's taste meant two things  :

First , this was a distraction ; Tywin would think that Littlefinger wants to become the high lord in a prominent place , and that his purpose was and is that. After such a bold request , he'll never get beyond that but the fact he's lowborn is enough to end it. He effectively made Tywin think he knew what he wants. Second , it leaves Tywin with the fact of knowing that the girl has many suitors and he then goes to marry her to Tyrion instead , to prevent all other plots in this. But Littlefinger wanted that marriage from the start , as we now know. How else he would have involved Tyrion with Joffrey's death other than sit him as a husband next to Sansa?

I don't know exactly how he will do it , but i'd like to think he will kind of 'win before the end' . What he does is pretty clear in hindsight. He takes "divide and conquer" , chooses the players and the pieces and lets players move the pieces and him the players. He divides , they conquer , he's playing . When this repeats itself enought times over , the divided will be conquered and he will have won. He will then make Harrenhal the new King's Landing and move the Iron Throne there , a place where the Iron Throne would be much more at home..

Then one day Dany will come and burn that place again trolololol

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/156odh/spoilers_all_complete_analysis_of_the_blackfyre/

Really great analysis on Aegon possibly being a Blackfyre, both arguements for and arguements against given.

Do you guys ever go on Westeros website. Some serious posters over there with encyclopedic knowledge.

M99 wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/156odh/spoilers_all_complete_analysis_of_the_blackfyre/

Really great analysis on Aegon possibly being a Blackfyre, both arguements for and arguements against given.

i've spent sometime reading some of the theories , the Blackfyre one as well. I must say , although it is definitely one of the most interesting and intriguing , i can't seem to get past the epilogue of DwD ; Simply because , Varys has not a single reason to lie to Kevan , at that point. Kevan is about to die and Varys tells him why , his reasons and the motive behind them. In that process , any Blackfyre conspiracy theory simply vanquished , imo always.

You'd say , there's the possibility of Varys being played by Illyrio. Varys must have ONE , at least ONE , ally . We know it's illyrio. Why ruin that? almost two decades of conspiracy , plots , actions and who knows what else and Illyrio is double playing Varys , his oldest friend ?For what , a dead branch of House Targaryen? seems legit. Some theorize about Illyrio's wife being Serra , who's not Serra but a Blackfyre , can't-recall-her-name-Blackfyre. A theory that in order to be proven legit , needs this Illyrio's wife theory. And where would all this Blackfyre conspiracy lead , let's say , storywise ? What does it serve in the end ? We've had 5 books telling the story of the Targaryens and how 'they' will win it back by fire and blood , only to one day find out a certain merchant and one clever bald man raised a rebel of a dead House to the Throne?

I just don't see it mate. Having all that said , there has to be something regarding the Blackfyres , because the writer did mention them more than once in the books. It's not 'Faegon' imo , but surely there must be something.

TheRedStag wrote:Do you guys ever go on Westeros website. Some serious posters over there with encyclopedic knowledge.

since i finished DwD , i check often and i usualy enjoy my time reading many of the discussions.Whilst a lot of interesting stuff are said in there , many posters tend to give too much "life" to some of their theories or notions . There are some which have some foundation , true , but most of them seem far fetched .

'Theories for the sake of theories' , to be honest. There's no point or gain , for Martin to have THAT much material in an already huge storyline with , admittedly , enough unnecessary material. That's not to say i didn't appreciate it , because i certainly did to the last word . But fact is , he could have kept some of it out.. Let's just say some characters's story just jog on seemingly without end and some of these characters purpose and story could/should have been already done with.