Mata vs Downing- Which Type do we NEED more?

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Downing vs Mata - Which one do we need more/You\'d opt for ?

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Post by Guest Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:42 pm

Simple question...We are linked with both players for LW spot...if you had to pick one under these circumstances, which one do you think will help the cause of our team more:

Downing
------------
Pros: Natural winger, will provide natural width, one of the best crossers from open play in the league, will help feeding AC, English, a way to piss off A.Villa fans, Will add a new dimension to the team, We don't have any player in our squad who has a similar style to him, will add PACE

Cons: Will turn 27 in January, Price will be inflated considering his age(17M), A very consistent decent player but Unlikely to ever reach a top class status

Potential price: 17M (Considering Young went for same amount with only 1 year left and Downing was much better than him last season)

Mata
--------------
Pros: a Top class player with potential to be WC one day, great link up play and intelligence, Spaniard, Should make Pepe happy, Ability to score/assist, Young, will add PACE

Cons: Already have 2 players with identical style (Suarez, Maxi), Wont help the natural width problem, Not exactly a good crosser

Potential Price: 25M (Considering competition and the fact that Valencia aren't exactly desperate)






If we had to sign one of them only....considering our squad and needs, which one would you opt for ??


Last edited by Sepi on Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by HscouserZ Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:47 pm

I'd go for mata, but that could be a risk since mata isn't really used to the physicallity of the EPL ad he could face lots of injuries ... but i think he's a gamble worth taking.
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Post by nj Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:11 pm

ive always been thinking that we could land & need both.


but if i had to choose, then Mata. easily.

especially because out of the 2, hes the only one most likely to turn world class.
and if we want to reach the level we are aiming to, we need good players its true (already filed with those), but also some world class players (at this moment we only have 2 of them, plus 1 slowly ageing).

the only pro about choosing Downing over Mata would be the natural width he would add and the crosses he would give to Andy as you said.

but that reason only isnt enought to make me choose him over Mata (who is better overrall).
we shouldnt be choosing players based purely on the fact that we want to accomodate 1 player (Andy).
im sure Andy can adapt to the team's stylee.
And even if we dont have a player like Downing in the team, i dont think it would mean 0 cross for Andy:the fullbacks can cross, and everyone else in the team too, (including players like Mata, even tho he prefers to drift in the center),
i mean, they are professional footballers, they know how to cross.





HscouserZ wrote:I'd go for mata, but that could be a risk since mata isn't really used to the physicallity of the EPL ad he could face lots of injuries ... but i think he's a gamble worth taking.
btw welcome man, i see you're new here.
hope youll enjoy it here
Very Happy


Last edited by nj on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by HscouserZ Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:17 pm

nj wrote:ive always been thinking that we could land & need both.


but if i had to choose, then Mata. easily.

especially because out of the 2, hes the only one most likely to turn world class.
and if we want to reach the level we are aiming to, we need good players its true (already filed with those), but also some world class players (at this moment we only have 2 of them, plus 1 slowly ageing).

the only pro about choosing Downing over Mata would be the natural width he would add and the crosses he would give to Andy as you said.

but that reason only isnt enought to make me choose him over Mata (who is better overrall).
we shouldnt be choosing players based purely on the fact that we want to accomodate 1 player (Andy).
im sure Andy can adapt to the team's style,
And even if we dont have a player like Downing in the team, i dont think it would mean 0 cross for Andy:the fullbacks can do that , and everyone else in the team too, (including players like Mata, even tho he prefers to drift in the center).

I agree mata would be better over downing, but don't u think that mata could prove to be disasterous since he isn't used to the physicallity of the EPL and he could be bombarted with injuries which sucks :'(
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Post by HscouserZ Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:19 pm

nj wrote:ive always been thinking that we could land & need both.


but if i had to choose, then Mata. easily.

especially because out of the 2, hes the only one most likely to turn world class.
and if we want to reach the level we are aiming to, we need good players its true (already filed with those), but also some world class players (at this moment we only have 2 of them, plus 1 slowly ageing).

the only pro about choosing Downing over Mata would be the natural width he would add and the crosses he would give to Andy as you said.

but that reason only isnt enought to make me choose him over Mata (who is better overrall).
we shouldnt be choosing players based purely on the fact that we want to accomodate 1 player (Andy).
im sure Andy can adapt to the team's stylee.
And even if we dont have a player like Downing in the team, i dont think it would mean 0 cross for Andy:the fullbacks can cross, and everyone else in the team too, (including players like Mata, even tho he prefers to drift in the center),
i mean, they are professional footballers, they know how to cross.





HscouserZ wrote:I'd go for mata, but that could be a risk since mata isn't really used to the physicallity of the EPL ad he could face lots of injuries ... but i think he's a gamble worth taking.
btw welcome man, i see you're new here.
hope youll enjoy it here
Very Happy


haha thanks Smile Very Happy
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Post by RedOranje Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:54 pm

Mata can and has played as a "natural winger" before though. He can certainly fill that role for us.

Likewise, he's creative and versatile enough to be a perfect partner for Suarez in the fluid formation we saw for much of the second half of the season last year. Mata can fill both the role that Downing can as well as a more central and fluid one, drifting to either wing and behind the striker as Gerrard and Suarez do the same.



Downing is a good player and would certainly improve the squad and add a dimension that we lack, but Mata would add that as well and a great deal more. That's the difference between good and bloody brilliant.

That said, I still think the chances of us getting Mata are slim at best..
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Post by Swanhends Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:04 am

I dont think Mata on the wing would work well for you guys...While he can play as a "winger" Mata is a player who wants to be involved in the buildup, get a lot of touches on the ball, drift inside etc......and you've already got a plethora of central players...You need someone who will stay wide to stretch the play and provide decent service...You have Johnson to do that on the right, Downing balances it out by providing the width and service from the left without having to put added pressure on your defense...
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Post by stevieg8 Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:44 am

I think we might play two very distinct styles next year, depending on our opponent and various other factors kenny can look at. i think one style is going to be the one we saw in the last half of last year - the very fluid attacking game based around suarez and his creativity. this style would require one specific type of player up front - raul, suarez, kuyt and aquilani (if he stays) would be the focal points of it, while of course other players could fit in around that and into the system.

the second style would be a more typical set-up, one that's going to put andy carroll's height to good use - this is where carroll, gerrard, adam etc. would thrive. i think in that sense then, we need to add players that fit both of these types - mata fits in on the opposite side from suarez in the first style, while a natural winger is necessary for the second (and we don't have one right now). even aside from comparing these two players, i don't think we're solving our wings with just one addition anyway, it's going to take more than that.
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Post by TheRedStag Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:19 am

If you take the two names out of the equation and just comment on the type of winger; then the traditional old fashioned winger, who'll stay wide and not look to cut in too often is without question the type of player we need added to our squad.

A traditional winger and a left back are imo by far the biggest necessities for the current squad.
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Post by RedOranje Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:45 am

I still disagree. We played our best footy when we had players in midfield and in the wide forward positions who could and would switch positions and pop up across the field. Yes, we have Maxi but rather than look for something completely different an upgrade to that position (a player with more pace, creativity, better crossing, dribbling, and finishing) would bring us closer to the leaders than buying a good but limited "traditional winger".

We have Gerrard, Johnson, Adam, and Aurelio (when fit) who are range from good to great at picking out crosses in open play. We don't truly need a player who's main expertise is that. Rather, a player who CAN pick out a cross, but also dovetail with Suarez and Gerrard as they roam would fit much better.

I'd take a Mata or N'Zogbia over a Downing. However I sincerely doubt we want just one and we should not be limiting our view to that.



Also, I'd rather spend big on a player of Mata's caliber and buy someone like Jarvis for a "traditional" option than spend big on someone of Downing's level and fail to get another player of Mata's style or level.
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Post by Red Alert Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:20 am

Mata + Jarvis sounds good. bounce

Mata won't leave Valencia though. pale
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Post by BeautifulGame Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:27 am

We need a pure winger desperately for sure someone who can stay wide beat his man and put in consistently quality crosses.

Lats season 2nd half season covered some of our deficiencies.We were excellent when we were leading but whenever we were behind and the teams parked the bus we struggled to break them down even under Kenny.So a natural winger and cover for him are more important than anyone else.

I am not sure how good a crosser is Mata but i certainly would be happy if we got Downing.

I feel we are after two wingers and will sign another one even after signing Downing.Hopefully its Mata even if we miss out on him we will still sign another winger to go with Downing.
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Post by BeautifulGame Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:31 am

ynwa wrote:Mata + Jarvis sounds good. bounce

Mata won't leave Valencia though.
pale

I feel the same too.Everything Valencia have done suggests they are not really desperate to sell Mata like Silva and Villa last season so unless someone offers them 30mil i cant see them selling.
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Post by Fahim89 Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:50 am

ynwa wrote:Mata + Jarvis sounds good. bounce

Mata won't leave Valencia though. pale

if this is the same reverse psychology as was with Adam then we might just have Mata's medical today! ! Razz

:lol!:

i for one would like to see both in the squad as they both add different dimensions to our game . .but it seems Downing has the highest chances of becoming a LFC player then Mata. . & also maybe within Saturday before the Asian Tour. .

Mata with Valencia's reluctance & Arsenal's interest (considering soon they might have a bundle of cash + desperate need for a good player) it would be tough . .
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Post by Red Alert Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:21 am

Fahim89 wrote:
ynwa wrote:Mata + Jarvis sounds good. bounce

Mata won't leave Valencia though. pale

if this is the same reverse psychology as was with Adam then we might just have Mata's medical today! ! Razz

:lol!:

i for one would like to see both in the squad as they both add different dimensions to our game . .but it seems Downing has the highest chances of becoming a LFC player then Mata. . & also maybe within Saturday before the Asian Tour. .

Mata with Valencia's reluctance & Arsenal's interest (considering soon they might have a bundle of cash + desperate need for a good player) it would be tough . .

I swear I'm not trying. Wink

I'm serious though. Mata won't leave. He's said he's happy in Spain, he's at a CL team who are spending wisely, and like beautifulgame said, unless we decide to splash the cash on him, or anyone for that Mata Razz, he won't be leaving.
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Post by iftikhar Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:25 pm

Mata
1. He is 23. So he can develop the traits of a 'natural' winger (assuming he doesn't have those now) along his natural development.

2. He is 23 and already a great player. Chances are he will become world class. Even in worst case, he will be better than Downing.

3. He is 23 and can offer long term solution (7-8 years as against 4-5 for Downing).

4. CAN HE ADAPT IN EPL!!!

Downing can improve the squad and he is a safe bet.
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Post by McAgger Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:58 pm

If Suarez gets injured what do we do?
If we have Mata, that's a direct replacement until Suarez comes back. Mata is very versatile and i don't understand why you people underrate him as a passer and crosser. Downing is world class at crossing but Mata isn't very far behind him in that category.

I doubt we'll get Mata this year...Next year will be a better chance. He's in CL already. As for Downing for around 20mill......I personally don't want him for that much but if we're willing to spend and he plays well why not take the gamble.
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Post by Ali Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:12 pm

mata?...but...hes coming to Arsenal?










Mata vs Downing- Which Type do we NEED more? Troll-face-problem
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Post by donttreadonred Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:55 pm

Let me preface this by saying that I would LOVE for Mata to come to LFC. He has amazed for Spanish under 21s and I like the idea of having a creative stand-in for Suarez should he ever *knock on wood* gets injured.

That said, I voted for Downing. Shocked

I think we have all been seduced by Mata's play to the point that we are forgetting that the very same style of play has been a problem for us in the past. By style of play, I am referring to "wide men" who prefer to cut inside with a view to score. I grant that Mata has had a great deal of success (more than our current wide men) with this tactic against the competition he has faced, but it doesn't change the fact that LFC has been frustrated by a similar tactic for at least the last season. Yes, Maxi had some wonderful games, and Kuyt had an incredible day against Man U. However, Maxi also disappeared most of the season when he was placed on the wing, and Kuyt's success came when he was played as a striker and not a midfielder.

Downing has proven himself capable of terrorizing fullbacks down the line, and he has the ability to cross the ball and provide service to Andy Carroll. Moreover, these abilities have been proven in the Premier League. This is all with varied levels of service from the players around him at Aston Villa. Perhaps in this situation, we don't need a savior, but a man who can get the very best out of what is already here. Downing could be exactly what Andy Carroll needs to become a Liverpool legend. The young striker has been described as a very raw talent, but with coaching and service he has the potential to be great. Downing could be one half of that key (the King be the other) to unlocking his potential.

I know that I'm probably in the minority in my opinion, but I felt the need to share this side of the story, especially with twitter followers planning to march on Valencia to get Mata to come to LFC... Downing certainly has his downsides, but I would not be discouraged to have him in the side.

That said, if we sign him OR Mata, I will be pleased. Go get Cazorla and I'll be ecstatic. Razz
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Post by RedOranje Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:51 pm

We played a different formation and style of play then. We also had a different set of players.

Further, as previously stated, Mata can and has been utilised in the "natural winger" role before and done well.
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Post by Guest Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:05 pm

Have to disagree with Red about Mata being a natural winger.

Natural wingers are a very rare breed these days. Even Nani isn't a natural winger.

Natural wingers in Premier league that I can think of are:

Valencia, Downing, Ethrington, Albrighton, Jarvis, Lennon, Bale

Natural wingers are very uncommon outside of English football

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Post by RedOranje Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:02 am

Please, do not start twisting my words. I did NOT say Mata was a natural winger, but that he could, when asked, filled such a role.

He is, frankly speaking, MORE than a natural winger.


The argument I am making does not, however, apply to other players as they are not Mata and do not share his exact abilities. Therefore when I say Mata would be a better signing as he could fill several roles, including one that Downing could, the same does not hold true for Turan, N'Zogbia, or perhaps even Hazard as they hold different strengths.
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Post by Red Alert Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:54 am

Mata is a natural winger. He moved to a more central position last season because David Silva left.
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