http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/138463-reds-confirm-shelvey-sale

O it didn't even take that long . . .  

Good luck to you Lord Jonjo!!  

Spearing and Assaidi next pls

Nishank wrote:Spearing and Assaidi next pls

Now now you!!! Don't give up on Downing so soon!!  

f**k me

Though I always feel sad when a player (young 'uns specially) leaves, I don't think his absence will be felt. He never really impressed in Red, though he had a great run with Blackpool. Wish him the best.

Just like ynwa and EE, I'm personally very disappointed we sold Jonjo permanently. Especially to the same f*cking team that stripped us clean for Allen who is no way shape or form worth that much more than Jonjo.

I wish him the best for the rest of his career. I know he'll do wonders under Laudrup. We're going to regret this decision in a few years as Jonjo has potential to be a top player in the PL.

I think this is/will turn out to be one of our best transfer windows in recent times (apart from the loss of future legend Shelvey, of course). Assaidi, Downing, Reina (?), Pacheco (meh) and Spearing to go.

Let's just hope Suarez doesn't leave and we don't spend that pathetic amount of money on Mkhitaryan.

ynwa wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:Allen is a far better player than Shelvey. We saw glimpses of that within the first month of his play. Not his fault BR decided to play him as a defensive midfielder, burn him out and give Gerrard a role to which would render his best role useless.

Lets look at Allen's capabilities from what we saw from Swansea and his best games within Liverpool.

6m for Shelvey is a price we should be grateful for. Meanwhile Adam Maher went to PSV for 2.5 and albeit a far better talent.

He is not "far better". No chance.

Allen was our best player in his first three months here, but there is no way he is worth 15m pounds. He also excelled in the DM role until he was found out [which he was playing for those 3 months next to Gerrard]. Rodgers did nothing wrong to play Allen there. He was the best fit to what Rodgers had at his disposal.

Getting 6m for Jonjo is stupid considering what we've paid for in the past. We paid 15m in "potential" Allen and 16m on Henderson for potential too.

Shelvey is still one of our best talents at the club, regardless if people continue to knee jerk his inconsistent glimpses in the last 6 months of last season. I would rather him loaned out than selling him for a joke of a bid.

Maher also went for 6.5m euros; not 2.5m. And the only reason he went for so cheap was because the Dutch market is A LOT cheaper than the Premier League market.

We paid 1.7m for Jonjo and sold him for the given price above which equals a profit.

Allen in the DM role? He was always over run, outmatched physically, could not deal with aerial threats or know when to cover to wide positions, in other words, a deep CM being played into a physical role to which he is not accustomed to. When he was playing well, Gerrard wasn't given the freedom on the ball to dictate midfield terms given his form and positional redevelopment. Allen, on the other hand was given the midfield reins, until Gerrard overtook that reference. Subsequently, that pushed Allen into a near-bit part midfield role to which the ball and initial touches did not run through him. It is why Xavi is played in an advanced role to Alonso, and not right next to him. In Swansea, Allen had the same role, as Britton recycled the ball, Allen put it into play.

Shelvey's talent? I initially jumped into the wagon of his talent and for every time I saw him, struggled to see the talent everyone revered so much about him. I did not see him tactical develop, nor his ability. If he wasn't hyped to hell like most LFC fans do onto their youth, I would appreciate him for a decent talent who can be better for a mid-table club in the future.

Unfortunately I see a player who cannot pass, has a shit first touch, and who bases his whole game around to get enough space to shoot the ball as hard as he can.

Henderson and Allen at least have a footballing intelligence output and keep things simple. I don't have an idea what the hell Shelvey really did aside from his poor tackles, aimless dribbles in dangerous areas and not following tactical instructions.

Glad he is gone. Wish him luck.

Why must everyone always take opinions to one extreme or the other? Certainly we are all intelligent enough to recognize that sometimes things fall into a grey area rather than black or white; a player can be good or decent rather than brilliant or terrible; a transfer can be solid business without being a massive mistake or a fantastic masterstroke.

Shelvey leaving was good for both parties. He was not fitting well into Rodgers' expectations and desires for a midfielder or a forward, and as such was not likely to make a breakthrough ahead of our current midfielders or forwards in the squad. At his age, he needs to be finding some real football somewhere where he can feel comfortable and wanted... at this point in time that isn't LFC.

Shelvey is a good player with good potential, but that potential is along the lines of a more traditional English CAM than what our squad currently requires. His best bet is finding a club that can use him in a manner that suits his strengths, rather than attempting to force him into an uncomfortable and unfamiliar role (as was attempted with him at forward). Meanwhile Rodgers gets a sizable amount of cash to continue (re)building Liverpool's squad in a way that is more suited to his preferred style.

Aubameyang looks certain to join BVB, not sure if Kloppo is signing him because lewa maz leave, i have read some report that Mkhi interest has been long over and now they are happy with this signing.

Arquitescu wrote:

ynwa wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:Allen is a far better player than Shelvey. We saw glimpses of that within the first month of his play. Not his fault BR decided to play him as a defensive midfielder, burn him out and give Gerrard a role to which would render his best role useless.

Lets look at Allen's capabilities from what we saw from Swansea and his best games within Liverpool.

6m for Shelvey is a price we should be grateful for. Meanwhile Adam Maher went to PSV for 2.5 and albeit a far better talent.

He is not "far better". No chance.

Allen was our best player in his first three months here, but there is no way he is worth 15m pounds. He also excelled in the DM role until he was found out [which he was playing for those 3 months next to Gerrard]. Rodgers did nothing wrong to play Allen there. He was the best fit to what Rodgers had at his disposal.

Getting 6m for Jonjo is stupid considering what we've paid for in the past. We paid 15m in "potential" Allen and 16m on Henderson for potential too.

Shelvey is still one of our best talents at the club, regardless if people continue to knee jerk his inconsistent glimpses in the last 6 months of last season. I would rather him loaned out than selling him for a joke of a bid.

Maher also went for 6.5m euros; not 2.5m. And the only reason he went for so cheap was because the Dutch market is A LOT cheaper than the Premier League market.

We paid 1.7m for Jonjo and sold him for the given price above which equals a profit.

Allen in the DM role? He was always over run, outmatched physically, could not deal with aerial threats or know when to cover to wide positions, in other words, a deep CM being played into a physical role to which he is not accustomed to. When he was playing well, Gerrard wasn't given the freedom on the ball to dictate midfield terms given his form and positional redevelopment. Allen, on the other hand was given the midfield reins, until Gerrard overtook that reference. Subsequently, that pushed Allen into a near-bit part midfield role to which the ball and initial touches did not run through him. It is why Xavi is played in an advanced role to Alonso, and not right next to him. In Swansea, Allen had the same role, as Britton recycled the ball, Allen put it into play.

Shelvey's talent? I initially jumped into the wagon of his talent and for every time I saw him, struggled to see the talent everyone revered so much about him. I did not see him tactical develop, nor his ability. If he wasn't hyped to hell like most LFC fans do onto their youth, I would appreciate him for a decent talent who can be better for a mid-table club in the future.

Unfortunately I see a player who cannot pass, has a shit first touch, and who bases his whole game around to get enough space to shoot the ball as hard as he can.

Henderson and Allen at least have a footballing intelligence output and keep things simple. I don't have an idea what the hell Shelvey really did aside from his poor tackles, aimless dribbles in dangerous areas and not following tactical instructions.

Glad he is gone. Wish him luck.

We're not a selling club. Profit means absolutely nothing to us. What is 4m to us anyway? We're not exactly in a position we were in like when G+H was here and we genuinely had to sell our youngsters for peanuts to pay off a little bit of debt.

Allen did play in the DM role during his whole Liverpool tenure so far. He got caught out after his initial three months of being arguably our best player. You could argue that was because he was struggling with injuries, but I personally just find him not adapting to the DM role as much as well as everyone wanted him too. Gerrard had a very similiar role to Allen before Lucas came back into the starting XI and was in the double pivot with Allen; and Stevie only wandered forward when Lucas was back on the pitch. Alonso, Xavi and Britton and Allen have absolutely nothing to do with Joe Allen's performances and position at Liverpool. Unless you suggest Allen's best position is currently the one Gerrard is playing now; something Allen has never played for us.

Who exactly has been hyped up that doesn't deserve praise? Honestly, I'd like to find out who they are.

Shelvey had a very similiar "first" season to Henderson's when he first arrived at Liverpool. They both started off very bright, and then faded abit towards the end. It wasn't until about post-January when fans got all over their backs and demanded them both flops and they both should be sold.  Luckily enough for Liverpool, Jordan rejected his move to Fulham and put in performances to justify his quality; something Shelvey will do at Swansea. Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes on to play for a top 4 club in the future. I'd genuinely laugh (better to laugh than to cry) if Liverpool are interested in him in the future, just as we are with Tom Ince.

Which brings up my next point.

Tom Ince is currently going for 8m.
Some dude just went to Crystal Palace for 8.5m. [I haven't even heard of this guy so I don't know his name.]
Charlie Wickham went for around 12m.
The Ox went for around 12m too.
Zaha went for 15m; add ons potentially to 20m.
(Keep in mind, NONE of these players played in the PL by the way.)

We sell one of the best English talents, an English capped player, for a measley 6m. Again, we just spunked out 31m on Allen and Henderson. We then sell Shelvey to Swansea [who we bought Allen for 15m] for 6m. They'd be laughing at us right now; just as Newcastle and Aston Villa have done in the past. Probably not as much as the other two, but they definitely will. Jonjo will be massive for them. And being stupid in the market isn't going to help us in the future.

Also, Allen and Henderson do play it simple. I'm all for their talent, but playing simple can only do so much. You won't win too many games playing it simple. Who, taking out Gerrard out of the list takes a "risk" in our midfield? Jonjo was that only man. But you make him sound like he's Charlie Adam from all people with how you describe his talents...

RedOranje wrote:Why must everyone always take opinions to one extreme or the other?  Certainly we are all intelligent enough to recognize that sometimes things fall into a grey area rather than black or white; a player can be good or decent rather than brilliant or terrible; a transfer can be solid business without being a massive mistake or a fantastic masterstroke.  

Shelvey leaving was good for both parties.  He was not fitting well into Rodgers' expectations and desires for a midfielder or a forward, and as such was not likely to make a breakthrough ahead of our current midfielders or forwards in the squad.  At his age, he needs to be finding some real football somewhere where he can feel comfortable and wanted... at this point in time that isn't LFC.

Shelvey is a good player with good potential, but that potential is along the lines of a more traditional English CAM than what our squad currently requires.  His best bet is finding a club that can use him in a manner that suits his strengths, rather than attempting to force him into an uncomfortable and unfamiliar role (as was attempted with him at forward).  Meanwhile Rodgers gets a sizable amount of cash to continue (re)building Liverpool's squad in a way that is more suited to his preferred style.

Honest question, would you be saying the same things in this post if this was about Henderson?
Henderson has and will always be a pass and move player so you would imagine him fitting into Rodgers position just fine [something all Liverpool fans knew]. He was attempted to be forced out of the club to bring in Dempsey from all people. Dempsey is a counter-attacking type as you would know.

Given the situation last summer, I would not be happy that Henderson was sold, but I certainly would understand why it happened and I wouldn't be making long, whinging posts acting like it's the end of the world.

So yes, I would basically say exactly the same thing.

You'd be okay with Liverpool to put money + Henderson [whom we just splashed 16m on him] to negotiate with Fulham for a 29 year old Clint Dempsey who couldn't exactly play Rodgers preferred style?

Ok with it? Not really.

But I would have accepted it given that Rodgers had to ok the deal himself, meaning it was a player he felt could fit into what he wanted to build, for a player he felt would not.

You're making several fallacious arguments in one here. You're putting this past season's information into an equation that would have not included it (having happened before this season) AND you're equating two unequal transfer moves. Nevermind the inherent differences between Henderson and Shelvey both as players and in our squad currently (and previously).

And you're STILL getting the same answer from me, which is, "I wouldn't have been terribly happy to see him [Henderson] leave (and shocker, I'm not terribly excited to see Shelvey go) but I would (and do) understand WHY he was sold (not going to see the game time he needs/deserves, and doesn't seem to fit the manager's plans but can generate funds for a player who does)."



We can keep going with this discussion if you like, but I think you've dug yourself a big enough hole already.

RedOranje wrote:

And you're STILL getting the same answer from me, which is, "I wouldn't have been terribly happy to see him [Henderson] leave (and shocker, I'm not terribly excited to see Shelvey go) but I would (and do) understand WHY he was sold (not going to see the game time he needs/deserves, and doesn't seem to fit the manager's plans but can generate funds for a player who does)."

Okay, see I'm fine with all this.

I'm just sick and tired of Liverpool being stupid in the market. Getting 6m for Shelvey is a joke, as is throwing Henderson + CASH for Dempsey.

We seem to get better at dealing with other teams to acquire players since January, but we're still not very smart getting rid of them.

https://soundcloud.com/#talksport/thompson-suarez-leaving

Liverpool Echo's John Thompson talks about Suarez maybe not leaving. . & his confidence regarding the Mkhitaryan deal is pleasing . .  

Has anyone else come across reports saying, Toby will soon join us.  

Who is Balázs Dzsudzsák??  

he used to play for anzhi and then signed for dinamo moskow,  i just remember him as very highly rated youngster from PSV eindhoven but then lost track of him. I dont know why we are even looking at him

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:he used to play for anzhi and then signed for dinamo moskow,  i just remember him as very highly rated youngster from PSV eindhoven but then lost track of him. I dont know why we are even looking at him

Ain't a youngster anymore & this is the first time i have heard of him . .  

I guess it's just lame rumors linking us with players with weird names or names we could hardly pronounce  

last time i saw him, i guess in some europa league match, i got a feeling downing plays better than him  

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:last time i saw him, i guess in some europa league match, i got a feeling downing plays better than him  

Now that's real bad!!  

As in general section someone had posted, russia is black hole for football talent

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:last time i saw him, i guess in some europa league match, i got a feeling downing plays better than him  

They're two different type of players... doesn't really matter though. We've been linked to him for like 2-3 years now. I don't think we're interested.

The Backpage of Liverpool Echo wrote:Reds have dropped interest in Atsu deal in favour of focusing on Sterling and Ibe.[Echo]

Now that's something many of us here would like . .