Far as I know Cantera is more focused on making money off of their youth system rather than spend on it as what is quite opposite to barca.. Not sure if the figures are right but 150m in 10 years or so.

[quote="The xcx"]Far as I know Cantera is more focused on making money off of their youth system rather than spend on it as what is quite opposite to barca.. Not sure if the figures are right but 150m in 10 years or so.
And did those "figures" say how much they earned in the return?

Messi is technically from Newells, but othwrwise, its amazing for somwthing loke this to happen. Bayern also plays a lot of.youth products with Shweini, Kroos, Muller, Lahm, Badstuber, and Alaba but after these two nobody really plays more than 2-3 of their homegrown players anymore.

zizzle wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Messi was rejected by Newell's and River Plate, that's well known. You can argue now with the benefit of hindsight that his talent was there for everyone to see, but the fact of the matter is that 2 clubs decided he wasn't worth a shot.

Iniesta is exactly the kind of footballer that would've gotten rejected at many a number of clubs because of his poor physique. Xavi as well.

You can say that Barca are having a golden generation, true, I don't disagree with that, but there's a system in place that prioritizes technique over physique, that teaches the tactical concepts since age 7, and that molds the footballers in order to be prepared to play in first division at Barca with a seamless transition (rather than say, Real Madrid, where Castilla and Real don't play the same style so Mou doesn't feel comfortable promoting players). Let's not belittle these accomplishments.

no one is trying to belittle the accomplishments of Barca's academy, i for one wish that every team out there would follow this model and im glad Inter is going in that direction, even if it means a few dry years.

You mentioned Messi being rejected by two clubs, but lets not forget his medical condition, Ronaldo was rejected by Flamengo because they didnt feel he's worth the bus fees that he couldnt afford. He made it anyway.

If Barca's success is to be solely attributed to the work they do in the academy then any model they'd follow would produce the same results, and assuming Messi and Iniesta didnt fit in that model i simply dont see it possible.

Anyway, Barca deserve all the credit for what they achieved with their home grown players, after all they had the right forumla. Sure it helps to teach tactical concepts to 7 year olds, but not every 7 year old cant be turned into Messi, you have to find the right boy first. Unless you believe that talent is secondary to practice and that's a different debate.

How so? Of course Barca put in work at the academy but you have to play to your strengths. Its the very reason that players like messi and iniesta fit in that model. Otherwise either they wouldn't be at that level or the model would be different. But their success doesn't come down to either just practice or just talent.

zizzle wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:

zizzle wrote:Dnmadbro ?

Nope, just wondering where the hate comes from. It takes time and energy to hate something and there are many things to hate about Barcelona I just don't see how this could possibly be one of them especially when every team has a youth system and the same posters who are putting ours down love a youth player that comes from there academy.

It's natural, everyone want's to see there youth player do well.

Why would I be mad about what my team accomplished today?

You're usually one of the more reasonable posters around here but that post wasnt. You kept talking about the haters but i've read every single post in this thread and nobody is hating, matter of fact we all admire Barca's model and that was mentioned by the majorty of the posters in this thread. When we question the feasibility or the replicability of that system it doesnt mean we're hating, we're just having a discussion, and that's what we're here for.

He might mean when they say

The xcx wrote:Its great and all but it wont last.

Thats not really a discussion, just hating. May not be the majority, but still.

juventus101 wrote:Messi is technically from Newells,

Technically, Messi is from both youth systems. He spent more than 3 years at both clubs before he was 19.

Regardging the quality of the Masia. I agree that talents like Messi can't be produced. However, players like Iniesta or Xavi can actually be produced again, maybe not at that level, but almost.

Xavi and Iniesta are the typical players our youth system produces. We've been creating techincal midfielders since the begining, and we will continue. The thing is, that in other teams, Xavi and Iniesta would have been played as attacking midfielders, or Iniestas as a winger, positions in which they would have been good players, but not world beaters as they are now.

It's completely true we have a golden generation, but we can keep producing some starters and many role players for years to come. And I assure you we are producing them, as there are plenty of prospect stars in our youth ranks: Deulofeu, Grimaldo, Rafinha, Sergi Roberto, Sergi Samper, Adama Traore, Sergi Canos, Ayub Abu, Carles Aleña, Lee, Paik, etc.

Some of them are bound to be world class.

free_cat wrote:

juventus101 wrote:Messi is technically from Newells,

Technically, Messi is from both youth systems. He spent more than 3 years at both clubs before he was 19.

Regardging the quality of the Masia. I agree that talents like Messi can't be produced. However, players like Iniesta or Xavi can actually be produced again, maybe not at that level, but almost.

Xavi and Iniesta are the typical players our youth system produces. We've been creating techincal midfielders since the begining, and we will continue. The thing is, that in other teams, Xavi and Iniesta would have been played as attacking midfielders, or Iniestas as a winger, positions in which they would have been good players, but not world beaters as they are now.

It's completely true we have a golden generation, but we can keep producing some starters and many role players for years to come. And I assure you we are producing them, as there are plenty of prospect stars in our youth ranks: Deulofeu, Grimaldo, Rafinha, Sergi Roberto, Sergi Samper, Adama Traore, Sergi Canos, Ayub Abu, Carles Aleña, Lee, Paik, etc.

Some of them are bound to be world class.

DONGOU!!!!!!! Some have said he's our next Eto'o and he can be but I'll be the first to say LOL, but only time will tell.

Although you see this:


and the future looks bright!!

In after jealous pathetic and spiteful Madrid fans.


Great achievement from Barca really is.

I don't want to detract from the achievement, but you guys are forgetting that Barca has been spending €20million a year on its academy whilst the next highest spenders, Lens & Ajax spend 6million whilst still having a terrible transfer policy as well as spending tens of millions just to buy back youth players they developed.

For comparison, Arsenal and Bayern spend 3€ million a year and still have a respectable amount of academy starters.

Still an awesome achievement, it's just not as romantic as it seems.

Phritz wrote:I don't want to detract from the achievement, but you guys are forgetting that Barca has been spending €20million a year on its academy whilst the next highest spenders, Lens & Ajax spend 6million whilst still having a terrible transfer policy as well as spending tens of millions just to buy back youth players they developed.

For comparison, Arsenal and Bayern spend 3€ million a year and still have a respectable amount of academy starters.

Still an awesome achievement, it's just not as romantic as it seems.

The 20 mil spent is on revamping the Nou La Mesia along with all multi-development when it comes to expenses, maintenance, high salary of its employees and of course its standard. Arsenal and Milan spend 3 mil but do they really produce the youth that Barca have been churning out? I don't think so.

Donuts wrote:the unimportance of how much we spend in our youth considering clubs spend in the millions as-well and end up halfway in their league *cough Arsenal*

Phritz wrote:For comparison, Arsenal and Bayern spend 3€ million a year and still have a respectable amount of academy starters

In Donut's world, 3 mllion>>>>>>20million and 4 out of 20 is about half

Also Arq, buying another teams rising youth and then pretending they "churned" him out of their academy is ridiculous. I mean, how on earth is Jordi Alba a Barcelona youth product??

http://www.ecaeurope.com/Global/Research/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies.pdf

For those of you arguing about how much is spent etc.

Milan begun focusing on youth since 2009-2010 , actualy. Small steps , but steps nonetheless. It's not something you can see the results right away. We've spend quite a lot the last 3 years on our youth project , more than anyone in Italy basicaly.

I believe this generation of Milan youth products , like De Sciglio , Paloschi , Verdi , Darmian , Calvano , Merkel, Ganz , Galliani , Beretta , C.Maldini , they all have a great future in front of them and some of these will be important players for Milan in the years to come .

Lex wrote:

Donuts wrote:the unimportance of how much we spend in our youth considering clubs spend in the millions as-well and end up halfway in their league *cough Arsenal*

Phritz wrote:For comparison, Arsenal and Bayern spend 3€ million a year and still have a respectable amount of academy starters

In Donut's world, 3 mllion>>>>>>20million and 4 out of 20 is about half

Also Arq, buying another teams rising youth and then pretending they "churned" him out of their academy is ridiculous. I mean, how on earth is Jordi Alba a Barcelona youth product??

Lex I am merely just bringing praise to their endeavour to play players who have taught some time or another in La Masia. To be honest, I wouldn't know all too much if they purchased youths from other clubs as I'm guessing through your conviction on this subject you may be right. Alba isn't? Well yes I guess he is more of a Valenciano product in the end.

jibers wrote:

The Franchise wrote:I believe operating costs are about 5-6m a year.

20 mate. Graham Hunter said twenty lol

Hunter says Dongou at 16 is better than Messi at 16. So yeah....

Phritz wrote:http://www.ecaeurope.com/Global/Research/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies.pdf

For those of you arguing about how much is spent etc.

Says there Barcelona spends 10 mil, not 20 mil on their academy.

Phritz wrote:I don't want to detract from the achievement, but you guys are forgetting that Barca has been spending €20million a year on its academy whilst the next highest spenders, Lens & Ajax spend 6million whilst still having a terrible transfer policy as well as spending tens of millions just to buy back youth players they developed.

For comparison, Arsenal and Bayern spend 3€ million a year and still have a respectable amount of academy starters.

Still an awesome achievement, it's just not as romantic as it seems.

Now let me make it more romantic for you. 20 mill is just recently, it was 10 or less before 2001-02. So lets take into account players that were promoted to the first team in last 10 years which would mean 200 mil spent.

Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets, Valdes, Thiago, Tello, Cuenca, Montoya + players we sold. Would you care to do the math? Can you see the economicism in this? Now the romanticism comes when you think about the loyalty of these players, how they have been prepared to fit in Barca's game-plan and do that so effortlessly. Now, please do not dwell that we bye players as well, just do the math from above and imagine how much would we have to pay if we did not grow them ourselves?

SO MUCH WIN!!!

I don't think 2001 - 2002 season was recent.

It's nice Barca are promoting players, but promoting youth players isn't superior to buying players for 30-40m.

I don't get why people always seem to think it's superior.

Phritz wrote:For comparison, Arsenal spend 3€ million a year and still have a respectable amount of academy starters.

Except the difference in quality is all there to see.

The benefits of spending £20m p/y on their academy and being able to handpick any youth player from any academy in a nation going through their golden generation.

Amazing and I wish this eventually happens with my club BUT I think what Dortmund have done with Reus, Gotze, Hummels etc is slightly more impressive.

As previously noted Barca spend 8-10m p/year on the academy and another 10-12m p/year on Barca B, a professional football club that plays in 2nd division.

In any case spending 20M p/year is still better than spending 30M on a back-up LB.

Dutti wrote:I don't think 2001 - 2002 season was recent.

and I don't think you can read. Not the whole post at least.

juventus101 wrote:Messi is technically from Newells, but othwrwise, its amazing for somwthing loke this to happen. Bayern also plays a lot of.youth products with Shweini, Kroos, Muller, Lahm, Badstuber, and Alaba but after these two nobody really plays more than 2-3 of their homegrown players anymore.

Using that logic then Barça has not a single youth player because they all started playing football at some small club, the same would be true for every player juve, milan, man utd, 'pool, madrid etc have produced...

Lex wrote:

Donuts wrote:the unimportance of how much we spend in our youth considering clubs spend in the millions as-well and end up halfway in their league *cough Arsenal*

Phritz wrote:For comparison, Arsenal and Bayern spend 3€ million a year and still have a respectable amount of academy starters

In Donut's world, 3 mllion>>>>>>20million and 4 out of 20 is about half

Also Arq, buying another teams rising youth and then pretending they "churned" him out of their academy is ridiculous. I mean, how on earth is Jordi Alba a Barcelona youth product??

Well he did spend 1998–2005 in La Masia or in other words he was longer in la masia than he was in Valencia...

Dutti wrote:

eelir wrote:

Dutti wrote:I don't think 2001 - 2002 season was recent.

and I don't think you can read. Not the whole post at least.

A post written by a goof ain't for the ones with sense. What say you math prof?

I say this: First, I am a very close to obtain my engineering phd, so you were not wrong to call me a math prof. Second, you just made my ignore list, so whatever you write after this, I wont read as I have seen enough stupidity from you in less then 2 posts. I see you read my posts selectively, and reply with idiotic statements in order to provoke a reaction, therefore here is my reaction to you. You are not worthy of my time!

Gil wrote:The benefits of spending £20m p/y on their academy and being able to handpick any youth player from any academy in a nation going through their golden generation.

Amazing and I wish this eventually happens with my club BUT I think what Dortmund have done with Reus, Gotze, Hummels etc is slightly more impressive.

Hummels is a Bayern youth.

Also as of now Bayern have more no.of youth products in their first team than Dortmund.

Badstuber,Lahm,Schweinsteiger,Kroos,Mueller,Alaba and Contento.

Dortmund only have Goetze,Reus,Schmelzer and Grosskeutz.