The team is simply not good enough this year. We've only played good 3 times in the entire whole season...v Newcastle, Wigan and Arsenal. The rest we have been sh*t and relied on our attackers and luck to bail us out.

Valencia has been completely rubbish this season. Today v Norwich he gave one of the worse displays I've ever seen from a winger at United- Up there with Bebe. Stops play, holds on to the ball for too long and produced crap cross after crap cross. the guy is in such bad form.

Young is completely useless too. doesn't offer nothing at all. Can't go past an opposition player if his life depended on it. All he does is pass it back or sideways.

I feel for RVP and Chicha because what the hell can they do if the MF is utter rubbish? If the MF is completely devoid of ideas and creativity? They can't create miracles all by themselves.

Another thing, our play today was so predictable. Pass to the out of form wingers- Out of form winger produces a hit-n-hope useless cross. *rinse and repeat*. GARBAGE.

Norwich had it so easy. ruddy could have had a nap if he wanted too...we didn't even test him today.

This defeat was coming from a mile away. There was always gonna be a time when we were misfiring in front of goal and wouldnt be able to over turn a deficit. Today was it. As soon as they scored, I knew it was game over. Without Rooney to link up play, we looked completely devoid of creating chances or getting a goal. bleh....

And for the love of everything good, and this is not meant to be disrespectful to our legend, but Giggs tonight should just retire. He has no business being involved in the starting 11 anymore. he is way past it and with him at cm, we are effectively playing with 10 as Carrick seems to do the job of 2 players.

SAF got this wrong again with his team selection. Why no Cleverley? Or Anderson...someone to give us some energy and urgency in the middle. Why the f*** not? And as for his subs....lmao!!! Leaving giggs on and subbing Chicha for Scholes...unbelievable. We needed a goal and we needed some urgency in the dying mins and he takes off Chicha for Scholes.

I blame no one but SAF for this defeat. The glaring problems in the team are there to see in plain sight, yet he ignores them time and time again. Pure arrogance.

We're playing some of the most boring, uninspired football I've seen. Ever. Like, even in the games we win we only seem to come to life when we go a goal down.

Damn we need Rooney. He is truly the heart beat of this team. Everything goes through him, and today highlighted just what a loss he is.



---------------------

I love Rafael though. Beast of a player.



/rant.

RED wrote:

Norwich had it so easy. ruddy could have had a nap if he wanted too...we didn't even test him today.
.

not sure if serious

^^^3 saves to make at a minimum in the entire 90+ mins, and one was off of his team mate's header.

that in itself is a complete joke.

we simply should've picked Howard WEbb in the lineup....irregardless of him being jaded or not


on another side, giggs+carrick midfield is shitty. SAF underestimated norwich and want giggs to score 1 goal for his league streak. Overall, bad lineup decision, Howard Webb is a MUST imo

as shitty as it is to say, we will be better off when giggs and scholes retire...SAF can't force them out, and has to much respect to not give them games. so he delays fixing the midfield or bringing in new midfielders because he believes we can get by with them in there...giggs was shite today so wasteful with his passing.

Anderson should of played today, Cleverley too, stupid mid week friendlies, useless money grabs.

I keep saying it and will continue too, this team does not have a drive when rooney isn't running things through the middle, everything positive attacking wise goes thru Rooney, RVP was invisible out there today without him, people on GL been saying we are one man team and it's RVP no, Rooney creates everything, Rooney is by far are most important player, but will never get credit because of the English hate on here.

can't help but think if Kagawa wasn't hurt he would of made a great difference in the game today playing in Rooneys role

i'm not worried about are defence, Jones, Vidic will help when they arrive back and smalling getting back some form after a few solid run of games

B mac of course cleverley and ando should have played. What other possible reason could there be for them not starting. We have a dead rubber of a game in the CL, so why didnt saf play giggs and scholes in that game rather than today's. Dumb selection by saf. 3 times this season we have lost due to saf starting Giggs alongside carrick and the other, v LFC, we were dominated and should have lost. Its no coincidence, giggs atm handicaps the starting 11. How saf doesn't see this is staggering to me.

Another thing, he may be in sh1t form due to contractual disputes or whatever, but let's resolve nani's contract and tie him down asap. By far our best winger! He could beat a player,use both feet, can actually dribble with the ball.....which is the least I can say for our current 2 badly out form wingers.

Been saying this about the team and SAF for the past few months and have gotten less than mannerly replies. A complete change is needed and the first of these changes should be the manager. Can't wait for next season when someone else takes over his position.

And the fact that people still thinks Nani is a better player than he looks is mind-blasting. Skill, pace, ability to use both feet has little meaning unless the player who possesses it knows how to use them to the advantage of the team consistenly. He is not the player to take us forward

^^^Always interesting to read opposition fans' opinion on United...especially from Barcelona fans. Don't agree at all with what you said though.

We'll see where his career takes him if he fails to secure a contract. He'll either be on the bench for a top club or a star for one of the Champion League spots 'pretenders'.

I'm not even a Barca fan . Of course you won't agree/admit to agree with anything I said when I'm attacking your beliefs. No biggy, just human psyche getting to work.

You can't wait for fergie's retirement? This complete lack of respect to the greatest manager United has ever had is what makes me question your allegiance (amongst other things too).

Saf is making quite a few howlers and some questionable decisions as of late, and there's nothing wrong with criticizing him on that....but to say you can't wait for him to leave. Wtf??

We are nothing without him. This below par United squad would probably be only competing for a top 4 place....like arsenal. Which is it good enough for a club like united. Saf is worki g miracles atm....only his stubborness and blind loyalty to 2 club legends is letting him down atm.....with a hint of complacency/arrogance/ underestimation...whatever you wanna call it.

I of course am upset with saf's decisions at time, none more so than today's game....but no way would I want him to go....or look forward to it...smh.

A lot of so called united fans wanting him gone are gonna see just what he has meant to the club once he leaves. Just wait n see.......wouldnt be surprised if most end up switching to be city or chelsea fans once we hit a rough patch.

Is Powell injured?

I really don't understand why such a quality player is not being slowly introduced into the team. Instead, SAF always gamble on Scholes and Giggs. They are at the end of their careers especially Giggs ffs. Also, Carrick is easily overrun in midfield nowadays because he moves almost like a snail. Since 2009 I've been saying that SAF needs to sign quality midfielders and yet....


Has anyone noticed that United tend to play like that against Norwich whenever they play away games? At home, United's form is always better but on away fixtures they suckk

LOL schinner probably wants Guardiola or some overrated scrub manager like Mourinho, SAF won`t be gone next season, and certainly will never be fired.

so just cut your allegiance to United, go support a barcelona or madrid....premier league becomes more then just us and chelsea, or us and Arsenal and suddenly SAF is shite. go watch La Liga if you want your 2 team league with overpayed players wasting away on the bench collecting just a paycheck.

you all act like every other squad in the league is perfect, City leak goals and have a pretty shite center midfield apart from toure, arsenal have shite defense and strikers, chelski have shite strikers and defence, spurs are spurs, shite strikers, liverpool well whole team is shite.

we have a old, shite midfield, and a injury plagued defence.

to say you want to see SAF gone LMAO

Jog On son smh

in SAF and the referees we trust

vizkosity wrote:in SAF and the referees we trust

You have used that call about a million times, no on finds it funny. So stop using it.

Rebelles.REUS.rex wrote:

vizkosity wrote:in SAF and the referees we trust

You have used that call about a million times, no on finds it funny. So stop using it.

Your point? I don't post to satisfy other people, and why should I ever? I'm not offending any individual either, so why must I? And I'm not straying away from the topic, so then why? Can you give me a good reason why I must listen to you?

I'm expressing my trust in our manager, after a shitty display. And what do u know about "no one finds it funny. So stop using it"? Did you collect all the data? There are quite a few hidden variables going on here. Obviously you've never looked deep enough...and you probably never will

So if other teams are not perfect, we shouldn't be? Great logic there mate. This is not a recent problem, this is now the third season that we are playing like shit. Even during the season where we 1-0 our way to the title. It's clear that the team is not good enough. Each season I expect the right players to be signed but after 5/6 transfer windows, players we're signing are still same types those we already have. Van Persie signing did turned out to be a good one but our main problems are still unresolved.

The midfield! It's evident and obvious, but not to SAF i guess. He signed Kagawa, who's a top class AMC, but where does he fit into the system? Who else did we sign in CM? Nick Powell who's a developing youngster. Most importantly, who did we let go? Paul Pogba. One of the world's brightest talent in midfield. Why can he sign CR and give him a push in the first team when he was 19 but not Pogba? Because he doesn't want to risk playing a youngster in a 2 men midfield. Carrick would be great playing the last man in a 3 men midfield but his qualities are wasted.

The formation. The formation is our main problem imo. 2 men midfield is out of date now. We're constantly dominated in the most important area of the pitch by teams playing with the extra player. And anytime one of the CM makes a mistake, it has been proved to be costly. With all due respect, SAF is a great manager, one of the greatest to have walked on planet Earth. But how great of a tactician is he, I dare to question. Our defence hasn't been anywhere near solid since the departure of Carlos Quiroz. One might also argue that we're not playing a traditional 4-4-2 in the sense that one of our forwards drops deeper into the attacking CM role. It is still a liability when it comes to defending especially when we don't press from the top and rely on parking the 2 banks of 4, waiting for ball to drop. I think the current system that Dortmund are adopting under Jurgen Klopp is the model we should be aiming for. We essentially have the same sort of players across the park. We would even go as far as saying we have the better players in most positions except for Hummels, Gotze and Pisczek.

Play Rooney at CM alongside Carrick, Kagawa as CAM behind RVP, Nani and Valencia on the wings.

2-man midfield is not the problem.

It's the way the players play that is no good at all. They are just lacklustre. They don't work as hard as United players used to pre 2009. As a result of the low work rate, the pace drops down and attacking display becomes very dull.

The differences between United pre 09 and now is that they were far far more aggressive back then and the players had much better ball control, timing on the run, and superior teamwork. Just watch past matches if you don't believe it.

SchinnerC wrote:So if other teams are not perfect, we shouldn't be? Great logic there mate. This is not a recent problem, this is now the third season that we are playing like shit. Even during the season where we 1-0 our way to the title. It's clear that the team is not good enough. Each season I expect the right players to be signed but after 5/6 transfer windows, players we're signing are still same types those we already have. Van Persie signing did turned out to be a good one but our main problems are still unresolved.

The midfield! It's evident and obvious, but not to SAF i guess. He signed Kagawa, who's a top class AMC, but where does he fit into the system? Who else did we sign in CM? Nick Powell who's a developing youngster. Most importantly, who did we let go? Paul Pogba. One of the world's brightest talent in midfield. Why can he sign CR and give him a push in the first team when he was 19 but not Pogba? Because he doesn't want to risk playing a youngster in a 2 men midfield. Carrick would be great playing the last man in a 3 men midfield but his qualities are wasted.

The formation. The formation is our main problem imo. 2 men midfield is out of date now. We're constantly dominated in the most important area of the pitch by teams playing with the extra player. And anytime one of the CM makes a mistake, it has been proved to be costly. With all due respect, SAF is a great manager, one of the greatest to have walked on planet Earth. But how great of a tactician is he, I dare to question. Our defence hasn't been anywhere near solid since the departure of Carlos Quiroz. One might also argue that we're not playing a traditional 4-4-2 in the sense that one of our forwards drops deeper into the attacking CM role. It is still a liability when it comes to defending especially when we don't press from the top and rely on parking the 2 banks of 4, waiting for ball to drop. I think the current system that Dortmund are adopting under Jurgen Klopp is the model we should be aiming for. We essentially have the same sort of players across the park. We would even go as far as saying we have the better players in most positions except for Hummels, Gotze and Pisczek.

I say we go with the diamond. We have 2 out of form wingers who offer us next to nothing in attack, and one other winger who's head is not in it no more. Our only width of attack is coming from Rafael and Evra. So l;et's just ditch this predictable 4-4-2 we're over using and use the diamond formation.

Play Hernandez and RVP up top, Rooney in the hole, Clev, Ando and Carrick in a 3 man MF....Have Evra and Rafael to play in a sort of wing back roles. That could work, we have tried and used it successfully already and we looked lively and energetic....and dangerous creating countless of chances v NewC. So I don't know why SAF isn't fond of using it again.

We can also play a 4-3-3 once Kagawa comes back. Have him play on the left and drift in the centre. He plays a similar role successfully for Japan. Have Nani on the right, RVP up top and Rooney as AMF, Carrick and Cleverley in the MF. That team is full of mobility, fast paced football that could tear opposition teams apart. We have options, man.

And B Mac is right with regards to the other teams. Chelsea have sh*t strikers, Arsenal's defence is all over the place atm and they are in bad form, City will drop points once their talisman Toure goes to the ANC in January....they're playing sh*t atm too.

We're not doing too well in terms of performances, but we're still only one point off 1st place. And with City playing Chelsea away next week, they, or both teams could drop points allowing us to go top again. So there is still some positives to take from all this.

vizkosity wrote:in SAF and the referees we trust

It's bad enough we get that BS from opposition fans, it's even more annoying when a United fan does it. It's really annoying bruh.

edit: I also agree about Quiroz. That man was tactically astute and helped out SAF a lot...especially in Europe. He was who made our organized defence so immense. We miss the guy badly.

SchinnerC wrote: I think the current system that Dortmund are adopting under Jurgen Klopp is the model we should be aiming for. We essentially have the same sort of players across the park. We would even go as far as saying we have the better players in most positions except for Hummels, Gotze and Pisczek.

Dortmunds midfield of Gundogan, Bender, Leitner absolutely shits on ours lol peronally we should of bought all 3 of them instead of Kagawa from Dortmund

I would say Kehl > Carrick only due to his leadership qualities. I like Cleverley but Gundogan>>>>Cleverley. Anderson on A GOOD DAY can be as good or even better than Bender. Comparing them just for the sake of this discussion. Leitner is still young and not quite there yet, he'll be top class in one/two seasons. Dortmund is my second team so there's no need for me to be biased on this.

The point is, our system is the problem. Both teams have similar mold of midfielders available for selection but why are we not even close to doing what they are doing at the moment? Dortmund plays a high pressing, counter attacking game while we sit back and wait for ball to drop before we can do anything. Although it worked before for more than a decade of SAF's reign, football has evolved dramatically in recent years. We are no longer playing teams who sit back in numbers to prevent our counter attacks. Our 'winning mentality' and 'ref conspiracy' have been carrying us since Ronaldo's departure.

Look the main problem as we all know is the mf. No energy and no work rate. We are literally playing like no other United team I have seen. Carrick should be relieved of his services. Literally we can never have any quick transitions in attack with him playing. Why ow why would SAF insist on starting Giggs and Carrick against a physical mf? Carrick gets ovverun every game, literally, offers nothing in attack.

Ando and Clev should be starting. Our defence is bad because of the lack of MF sheilding, Dare I say a defence of Costarcuta, Baresi, Maldini and Tossati would fair any better because there we are playing the now accustomed 4-0-4. Our attackers ROoney and RVp are dropping so deep now to find the ball because of the lack of imagination and so there are no runners in behind the opposition defence. Makes no sense having RVP and playing around the middle tbh. Valencia is a one trick pony and us relying on crosses is just embarrsing, what makes our style better than STokes?

lol the return of Jibers

good to see you back again Jibers. Don't necessarily agree about Carrick though, when on form, he produces good solid performances and protects the back 4 while contributing in attack too. When off form, like currently, he is a bit useless as he is so static and pointless, with posession and without posession.

I don't think should ditch 4-4-2.....with in form wingers, we are devastating with this formation. As our attack makes up for our CM problems. But when our wingers are off form, we badly need other alternative formations.

It's so gutting seeing Cleverley and Anderson heading to Turkey and most likely starting in a meaningless game knowing we badly needed them against Norwich last Saturday. grr