Who/Where are the Great Defenders of Today?

Catracho wrote:Lucio is a GOAT. yall gonna need to stop the hating. Lucio is the best technical and attacking CB to probably ever play.

btw, Why the sleep on Lizarazu or Desailly.. smh

Well the post is asking on where are the great defenders of today. Truth is there arent many but there are a lot of promising youngsters comin up. Thanks to youtube, I think Dede leads the pack. It'll be interesting to see the defending in the WC.

TS is a good defender but far from being great, and I am not saying this because he left Milan, as a matter of fact I can't remember praising him even when he played for Milan. Milan's tactics helped him a lot and pairing with Nesta is a plus as well, he never really impressed me with the national team, and at PSG he doesn't seem to be the same TS with Milan.

Anyway back on topic Hiram Mier is the next best thing to happen to defense in football world.

can ask again why no love for Thuram?? Does even some1 remember him ? He was beast of CB ( after moved from RB) even RB....

baresi wrote:TS is a good defender but far from being great, and I am not saying this because he left Milan, as a matter of fact I can't remember praising him even when he played for Milan. Milan's tactics helped him a lot and pairing with Nesta is a plus as well, he never really impressed me with the national team, and at PSG he doesn't seem to be the same TS with Milan.

Anyway back on topic Hiram Mier is the next best thing to happen to defense in football world.

LOL no.

Gil wrote:Some great points being made on here but has anyone ever considered the fact that football has become more possession oriented should result in less pressure on the defenses?

Firstly, no, pressure on defence has steadilly increased since goalkeepers were outlawed from picking up backpasses. So many teams now use aggressive pressing high up the pitch, and its pretty effective

Possession football has, if anything, made it more complicated for defenders. I suppose it depends on the particular defender, but in general i think defenders prefer the physical battle against direct counter attacks. Defending agsinst a possesion teams means focus and communication has to be top notch, its very difficult to continuosly follow the ball and press the play without leaving the other areas of your defence exposed, which is where the possession team will eventually try to switch play and outnumber you

Honestly, its not just defense. Talent all over the pitch is at a very low standard right now in my opinion. Defense is probably in the worst shape though, i agree with that. Chiellini inbmy opinion is the best in the world right now, but even he, or the overrated Thiago Silva, have got nothing on Cannavaro, Nesta, Maldini, Thuram, etc.

Off top, but gotta put this in.

Toffer Harly.

Dwight Howard?

Catracho wrote:Lucio is a GOAT. yall gonna need to stop the hating. Lucio is the best technical and attacking CB to probably ever play.

btw, Why the sleep on Lizarazu or Desailly.. smh

Lizarazu was a leftback and defensively, not THAT good.

Desailly was boss, but he played CB when he started declining physically mostly. Was boss there though.

Im going to say it, as controversial as it may be.

Cannavaro was incredibly overrated, probably because of that World cup game vs Henry.

Thiago Silva isnt less talented at all.

He isnt anything like as decorated and he probably never will be, but ability and performance wise, this Thiago Silva isnt worse than Cannavero.

I never seen and I venture to predict will never see Thiago Silva destroyed like I seen Cannavara get destroyed.

Again, not more decorated, not the winner Canna was..but talent wise...Canna isnt much better, if he is, at all.

The Franchise wrote:Off top, but gotta put this in.

Toffer Harly.

Dwight Howard?

Yao >>>>>>>>>>>

Cannavaro wasn't untouchable, I think people overrated him because of his size as well, but still he was a frigging beast and a half of a defender.

YAO

If this was the NBA section I would flood this thing full of Yao owing Howard youtube clips right now.

better not though, I already took this thing off topic.

Cannavaro shits all over Thiago Silva. Cannavaro shut down Henry and Trezeguet in their prines, not to mention Zinedine Zidane. He had Materazzi next to him and only allowed two goals to breach his defense in 06, and one was a PK and one was an own goal. He was in his mid 30's in Madrid and having to constantly cover up for Pepe, who was absolutely terrible at that point, so he didnt look at his best there. The man won the Ballon Dor for a reason. He puts Silva to shame.

He shut Henry down for 1 game, lets keep that in mind.

Also lets keep in mind, just like any great defence...it was a team wide thing, not just Canna shutting him down.

He didnt shut down Zidane, thats rubbish. They rarely came into contact.

Also, stop blaming Pepe. I hate the dude, but he isnt the reason Canna was getting taken to school every second game. He was horrible, it was nothing to do with Pepe, it was him getting beaten 1 v 1 and having poor positional play.

I wont even blame him for getting utterly owned by teenage Messi, its not even fair. He was getting owned by regular Joes in La Liga.

I see where this is going though. Every succes he did, it was Canna doing it all alone.

Every failure, it was someone elses fault.

You cant take your Ballon D'or, turn it side ways...and I hope you know the rest. Rubbish award with no meaning whatsoever.

No meaning whatsoever? Wow bro, good argument there. Haha. And actually, if you had watched, youd realize his positioning was poor because he wa covering up for Pepe. He also got owned by Messi one time, and he was a year and a half from retiring. Youre gonna hold that one game against him but tell me the Ballon Dor means nothing and that he shut down Henry and Zizou means nothing. And he actually came into contact with Zidane quite a bit. I still remember to this day watching the game and watching Zidane get the ball, get nervous, then calm down when Cannavaro would take it away. Now im not saying he was great because of his time in La Liga. He was certainly below his Serie A standards. But saying he was getting beat constantly is a straight up lie.

The Franchise wrote:He shut Henry down for 1 game, lets keep that in mind.

Also lets keep in mind, just like any great defence...it was a team wide thing, not just Canna shutting him down.

He didnt shut down Zidane, thats rubbish. They rarely came into contact.

Also, stop blaming Pepe. I hate the dude, but he isnt the reason Canna was getting taken to school every second game. He was horrible, it was nothing to do with Pepe, it was him getting beaten 1 v 1 and having poor positional play.

I wont even blame him for getting utterly owned by teenage Messi, its not even fair. He was getting owned by regular Joes in La Liga.

I see where this is going though. Every succes he did, it was Canna doing it all alone.

Every failure, it was someone elses fault.

You cant take your Ballon D'or, turn it side ways...and I hope you know the rest. Rubbish award with no meaning whatsoever.

If you ignore his time outside of Italy how do you rate him?
I agree that Cannavaro fell off quite horrendously after 2006, his return to Italy was not much better

His time in 2006 and prior he was quite a brilliant defender in my opinion
Just curious as to how people view him without his Spanish excursion

I dont need to make an argument for it, in my opinion, the award had lost whatever little meaning it already had by the time he won it. In fact, him winning it was the exact moment it went from stupid to a complete joke and I have since, paid almost no attention to it.

No, he got owned by Messi more than once and actually, got owned that entire game by various others. Fouled the crap out of people. Again, it wasnt covering for Pepe, it was him being crap.

Yes, I am going to hold that against him. Why? Because he returned to Serie A and for an entire season he was back to good old Cannavaro.

He also didnt shut down Zidane. I think people who didnt even watch the game can figure out its true. How does a centerback shut down someone playing in midfield? Its actually not possible.

Finally, there is no lie. Everyone in La Liga was making jokes about him, everyone had concluded he was finished, everyone, especially Madrid fans, were sick and tired of his mistakes.

Luca wrote:

The Franchise wrote:He shut Henry down for 1 game, lets keep that in mind.

Also lets keep in mind, just like any great defence...it was a team wide thing, not just Canna shutting him down.

He didnt shut down Zidane, thats rubbish. They rarely came into contact.

Also, stop blaming Pepe. I hate the dude, but he isnt the reason Canna was getting taken to school every second game. He was horrible, it was nothing to do with Pepe, it was him getting beaten 1 v 1 and having poor positional play.

I wont even blame him for getting utterly owned by teenage Messi, its not even fair. He was getting owned by regular Joes in La Liga.

I see where this is going though. Every succes he did, it was Canna doing it all alone.

Every failure, it was someone elses fault.

You cant take your Ballon D'or, turn it side ways...and I hope you know the rest. Rubbish award with no meaning whatsoever.

If you ignore his time outside of Italy how do you rate him?
I agree that Cannavaro fell off quite horrendously after 2006, his return to Italy was not much better

His time in 2006 and prior he was quite a brilliant defender in my opinion
Just curious as to how people view him without his Spanish excursion

I cant ignore it. Because once he came back to Italy, he started playing well again. I remember this clear as day.

If he came to La Liga, got owned and was finished after that point. Fair enough, he came at the wrong time in his career (he did anyway but bare with me) and was too far past his best..then I can ignore that.

I am fully aware it wasnt prime Canna, but he wasnt finished either.

He won the Ballon D'or, went directly to Madrid and struggled.

Anyway, to answer the question. How do I rate him?

He was an excellent defender, superb at antipating attackers moves and runs, a beast in the air and incredibly mobile. However, I think he gambled a little too much and could be beaten because of those gambles. A world class defender, but not an all time great defender and not some super talent we dare not compare to Thiago Silva because he is not worthy.

The Franchise wrote:

Luca wrote:

The Franchise wrote:He shut Henry down for 1 game, lets keep that in mind.

Also lets keep in mind, just like any great defence...it was a team wide thing, not just Canna shutting him down.

He didnt shut down Zidane, thats rubbish. They rarely came into contact.

Also, stop blaming Pepe. I hate the dude, but he isnt the reason Canna was getting taken to school every second game. He was horrible, it was nothing to do with Pepe, it was him getting beaten 1 v 1 and having poor positional play.

I wont even blame him for getting utterly owned by teenage Messi, its not even fair. He was getting owned by regular Joes in La Liga.

I see where this is going though. Every succes he did, it was Canna doing it all alone.

Every failure, it was someone elses fault.

You cant take your Ballon D'or, turn it side ways...and I hope you know the rest. Rubbish award with no meaning whatsoever.

If you ignore his time outside of Italy how do you rate him?
I agree that Cannavaro fell off quite horrendously after 2006, his return to Italy was not much better

His time in 2006 and prior he was quite a brilliant defender in my opinion
Just curious as to how people view him without his Spanish excursion

I cant ignore it. Because once he came back to Italy, he started playing well again. I remember this clear as day.

If he came to La Liga, got owned and was finished after that point. Fair enough, he came at the wrong time in his career (he did anyway but bare with me) and was too far past his best..then I can ignore that.

I am fully aware it wasnt prime Canna, but he wasnt finished either.

He won the Ballon D'or, went directly to Madrid and struggled.

Anyway, to answer the question. How do I rate him?

He was an excellent defender, superb at antipating attackers moves and runs, a beast in the air and incredibly mobile. However, I think he gambled a little too much and could be beaten because of those gambles. A world class defender, but not an all time great defender and not some super talent we dare not compare to Thiago Silva because he is not worthy.

He didn't play well when he returned though, he was finished apart from maybe one or two 'vintage' performances

Juventus had one of the bottom five goal differentials that season, it was also the last time they were in the champions league (until now of course)

Fair enough, he was not good with Madrid and I don't think anyone would defend that claim

I still rate him above Thiago Silva though

CtHe got owned by Messi in that game yes. I admitted that, but.you have to realize that he was in his mid to late 30s at that point against a player entering the prime of his career. I didnt blame that game on Pepe, i just said that covering for Pepe throughout the seasons made Cannavaro look worse. Yes he was only a shadow of his old Serie A self, but he was old, abd still a good defender. Just became mistake prone. But when he came back to Juve he was not any better. He was terrible. He had a good first few games and then went to shit. In fact practically every Juve fan wanted Legrottaglie to start instead of him but it didnt happen. But.i dont hold it against Canna cuz it was clearly him just pushing out his career too long. Sane with his last year in Madrid. So dont try to tell me, a Juventino, that Canna was back at his best when he came back. He damn sure was not. He was at his worst except for 2 or 3 games. We ended up in 7th place with a negative goal differential!

You realize that Zidane pushed forwards ALOT in that game, and is an attacking mid to start with. As i said before. I remember it clear as day. Cannavaro shut down Zidane.

Fact is, no one rates someone based on how good they were when they were in their mid 30's and obviously way past their prime. Otherwise i could also rate Silva based on his pre-prime, pre-Milan form when he was a nobody. We rate players based on their good years, not when theyre building up their rep or about to retire. Cannavaro was FARRRRRR better than Thiago Silva will ever be.

Cannavaro not worthy to compare to Thiago Silva ? get out of here.Really ridiculous way to discredit a decorated defender like Cannavaro.

Surag wrote:Cannavaro not worthy to compare to Thiago Silva ? get out of here.Really ridiculous way to discredit a decorated defender like Cannavaro.

Did not say that lol

Luca wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Luca wrote:

The Franchise wrote:He shut Henry down for 1 game, lets keep that in mind.

Also lets keep in mind, just like any great defence...it was a team wide thing, not just Canna shutting him down.

He didnt shut down Zidane, thats rubbish. They rarely came into contact.

Also, stop blaming Pepe. I hate the dude, but he isnt the reason Canna was getting taken to school every second game. He was horrible, it was nothing to do with Pepe, it was him getting beaten 1 v 1 and having poor positional play.

I wont even blame him for getting utterly owned by teenage Messi, its not even fair. He was getting owned by regular Joes in La Liga.

I see where this is going though. Every succes he did, it was Canna doing it all alone.

Every failure, it was someone elses fault.

You cant take your Ballon D'or, turn it side ways...and I hope you know the rest. Rubbish award with no meaning whatsoever.

If you ignore his time outside of Italy how do you rate him?
I agree that Cannavaro fell off quite horrendously after 2006, his return to Italy was not much better

His time in 2006 and prior he was quite a brilliant defender in my opinion
Just curious as to how people view him without his Spanish excursion

I cant ignore it. Because once he came back to Italy, he started playing well again. I remember this clear as day.

If he came to La Liga, got owned and was finished after that point. Fair enough, he came at the wrong time in his career (he did anyway but bare with me) and was too far past his best..then I can ignore that.

I am fully aware it wasnt prime Canna, but he wasnt finished either.

He won the Ballon D'or, went directly to Madrid and struggled.

Anyway, to answer the question. How do I rate him?

He was an excellent defender, superb at antipating attackers moves and runs, a beast in the air and incredibly mobile. However, I think he gambled a little too much and could be beaten because of those gambles. A world class defender, but not an all time great defender and not some super talent we dare not compare to Thiago Silva because he is not worthy.

He didn't play well when he returned though, he was finished apart from maybe one or two 'vintage' performances

Juventus had one of the bottom five goal differentials that season, it was also the last time they were in the champions league (until now of course)

Fair enough, he was not good with Madrid and I don't think anyone would defend that claim

I still rate him above Thiago Silva though

Times like this, I wish the old forum was here. I would drag up all those old quotes. The general feeling at the time was he was back. Either way, he was much better there at a much older age, than he was at Madrid.

Dont you think there is something to be said for someone who wins the Ballon Dor and straight away falls apart? That doesnt seem right.

I rate him higher than Silva too, I did say he is more decorated. What I did say is, he isnt much more talented than Silva, if more talented at all.

juventus101 wrote:CtHe got owned by Messi in that game yes. I admitted that, but.you have to realize that he was in his mid to late 30s at that point against a player entering the prime of his career. I didnt blame that game on Pepe, i just said that covering for Pepe throughout the seasons made Cannavaro look worse. Yes he was only a shadow of his old Serie A self, but he was old, abd still a good defender. Just became mistake prone. But when he came back to Juve he was not any better. He was terrible. He had a good first few games and then went to shit. In fact practically every Juve fan wanted Legrottaglie to start instead of him but it didnt happen. But.i dont hold it against Canna cuz it was clearly him just pushing out his career too long. Sane with his last year in Madrid. So dont try to tell me, a Juventino, that Canna was back at his best when he came back. He damn sure was not. He was at his worst except for 2 or 3 games. We ended up in 7th place with a negative goal differential!

You realize that Zidane pushed forwards ALOT in that game, and is an attacking mid to start with. As i said before. I remember it clear as day. Cannavaro shut down Zidane.

Fact is, no one rates someone based on how good they were when they were in their mid 30's and obviously way past their prime. Otherwise i could also rate Silva based on his pre-prime, pre-Milan form when he was a nobody. We rate players based on their good years, not when theyre building up their rep or about to retire. Cannavaro was FARRRRRR better than Thiago Silva will ever be.

Okay, we are going in circles here.

Here are some facts.

He won the Ballon D'or, something you brought up. He went to La Liga and immediately sucked.

Blame Pepe, blame age, blame whatever...he sucked and got chased out of La Liga such was the level of his suck.

He came back to Serie A, he was better than he was in La Liga. You want to dispute this fact, so let us leave it aside for a moment. There is no reasonable explanation for someone winning the Ballon D'or and then coming straight to Madrid and being awful. None.

The last I will say to you, because we are going round in circles and I dont have time for that, is he wasnt the perfect defender you make him out to be and he isnt that much more talented than Thiago Silva. My opinion, take it or leave it.

Also judging Cannavaro's post WC 2006 years is pretty redundant in my opinion..He was well past his best and even in his second spell at Juventus it was an often fragile backline with him around,Chiellini used to bail us out all the time..

"such was his level of suck"

GOAT phrasing

Surag wrote:Also judging Cannavaro's post WC 2006 years is pretty redundant in my opinion..He was well past his best and even in his second spell at Juventus it was an often fragile backline with him around,Chiellini used to bail us out all the time..

That seems fair.

Wins the Ballon D'or, we get to use that in crowing him great.

3 months later he sucks. Oh no, cant talk about that, he was past his best.

Come on man. This would never fly if it happened today.

Imagine for a second Xavi wins the Ballon D'or, leaves Barca, goes to Man City and complete fails. Are we going to say, oh it doesnt matter, he was past his best?

No, we are going say...he is past his best..but he has failed in another league/system, he isnt the player we thought he was.