Ship him out to somewhere else. He isn't a scrub footy, just doesn't fit Farca style.

There are very few out there who fits the Barcelona system. Cesc was never tactically brilliant. He is too eccentric to be restricted. Wilshere would have been fantastic in the Barcelona system for example because he knows what his job is.


Cesc needs to get back to Arsenal

The HSV had their lost son Rafael van der Vaart return to them, so why shouldn't Fabregas see the light, too?

Cause Vdv is 29 and doesnt command a huge fee, Barca on the other hand would want 30+ mill

vivabarca38 wrote:Cesc Fabregas wants more playing time at Barcelona, and says that he didn't make the switch to Spain to sit on the bench.

"I've always said that I play for the best team in the world, but I came here to compete, to learn and enjoy, not to sit wracking my brains."

He has played almost every single game and still hasnt looked comfortable. Sorry mate, but if you cant perform then we have to place you on the bench...

Bojan saying his old team mate is very envious of him being at milan and Cesc saying hes not happy?

Anyone else seeing a connection?

Be/\/ceCALI wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:The problem is not Cesc's, the problem is Barcelona's playing style. I have had this discussion with my friend's before, and we all agreed that Cesc moving to Barcelona was a bad move. The way people on here praise La Masia is bewildering, especially considering how many amazing players my teams youth academy had produced.

I have always maintained the fact that Xavi, Inesta and Messi are freaks. Cesc's problem is that he was brought in as a long term replacement for Xavi, which quite frankly, is the most stupid transfer I have ever witnessed. Xavi is the best organiser I have ever seen. Barcelona's sytem isn't impossible, it's following the 3 freaks that is impossible. Barcelona is so Messi dependent it is frightening. I have never seen one team depend on one player in my life, it ios essentially the anti-thesis to what van Gaal did at Ajax. Barcelona might have a system, but they have built it completely around Messi. It's no surprise that when he does not turn up, Barcelona's level as a whole drops.

I have seen a lot of Barcelona youth games, I am sorry I do not rate la masia as highly as the media, and a lot of people in Amsterdam agree with my asertions as well. If I remmeber correctly, a president of one of the Brazilaian clubs said something similar, of how he thought there was nothing special about la masia. He was telling the truth. Cesc was going to alwaysstruggle, because the roles he was going to occupy, are filled by 1 in a lifetime players. If it was as sytematic as people are saying, he will have adaptd a lot faster, but he is expected to mimic Messi and Xavi, so it was never going to work. I feel that Barcelona needs to start looking at their system, and why so many players adapt rather than looking at the players. Say what you want, but Barcelonas 'system' at the moment is to circulate and distribute the ball around one Lionel Messi.

great post. can't say I disagree with any of it

Then can you two tell us why they produce so many immense players over the past years.

Is there something in the water? Do they feed them a certain plant that makes them better then other youth players?

Please tell me.

When you produce players with the quality of Cesc, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets, Pedro, Tello, Valdes, Puyol, Pique, Arteta, Cuenca, Thiago, Dos Santos, Alba, Montoya, Guardiola, Bojan, Thiago Motta, De La Pena, Pepe Reina, Jeffren and on and on.

What makes you not impressed? And as for watching some of there youth team and not being impressed, they almost won Spain's second division league and was in position to be promoted but wasn't allowed to be in the same league as there parent club.

Do you know how many international Youth tournaments Spain has won over the last 5 years with there teams chalk full of Barcelona players? I could go on listing them as well.

I mean for someone to say there not that impressed with La Masia and another poster agreeing to it is just the height of total either ignorance (which I hope it is) or just plain hate.

I don't know what more you could possibly want from your youth academy then be good enough to qualify to compete in the same league as your senior team.

What a joke your post is, I'm sorry for the harshness of my post but this is just insane.

Dnmac4 wrote:

Be/\/ceCALI wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:The problem is not Cesc's, the problem is Barcelona's playing style. I have had this discussion with my friend's before, and we all agreed that Cesc moving to Barcelona was a bad move. The way people on here praise La Masia is bewildering, especially considering how many amazing players my teams youth academy had produced.

I have always maintained the fact that Xavi, Inesta and Messi are freaks. Cesc's problem is that he was brought in as a long term replacement for Xavi, which quite frankly, is the most stupid transfer I have ever witnessed. Xavi is the best organiser I have ever seen. Barcelona's sytem isn't impossible, it's following the 3 freaks that is impossible. Barcelona is so Messi dependent it is frightening. I have never seen one team depend on one player in my life, it ios essentially the anti-thesis to what van Gaal did at Ajax. Barcelona might have a system, but they have built it completely around Messi. It's no surprise that when he does not turn up, Barcelona's level as a whole drops.

I have seen a lot of Barcelona youth games, I am sorry I do not rate la masia as highly as the media, and a lot of people in Amsterdam agree with my asertions as well. If I remmeber correctly, a president of one of the Brazilaian clubs said something similar, of how he thought there was nothing special about la masia. He was telling the truth. Cesc was going to alwaysstruggle, because the roles he was going to occupy, are filled by 1 in a lifetime players. If it was as sytematic as people are saying, he will have adaptd a lot faster, but he is expected to mimic Messi and Xavi, so it was never going to work. I feel that Barcelona needs to start looking at their system, and why so many players adapt rather than looking at the players. Say what you want, but Barcelonas 'system' at the moment is to circulate and distribute the ball around one Lionel Messi.

great post. can't say I disagree with any of it

Then can you two tell us why they produce so many immense players over the past years.

Is there something in the water? Do they feed them a certain plant that makes them better then other youth players?

Please tell me.

When you produce players with the quality of Cesc, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets, Pedro, Tello, Valdes, Puyol, Pique, Arteta, Cuenca, Thiago, Dos Santos, Alba, Montoya, Guardiola, Bojan, Thiago Motta, De La Pena, Pepe Reina, Jeffren and on and on.

What makes you not impressed? And as for watching some of there youth team and not being impressed, they almost won Spain's second division league and was in position to be promoted but wasn't allowed to be in the same league as there parent club.

Do you know how many international Youth tournaments Spain has won over the last 5 years with there teams chalk full of Barcelona players? I could go on listing them as well.

I mean for someone to say there not that impressed with La Masia and another poster agreeing to it is just the height of total either ignorance (which I hope it is) or just plain hate.

I don't know what more you could possibly want from your youth academy then be good enough to qualify to compete in the same league as your senior team.

What a joke your post is, I'm sorry for the harshness of my post but this is just insane.

Apart from Messi, xavi and Iniesta, I do not believe any of the playere there are world class level. Bojan? Cuenca? Is this some sort of aa joke? I have looked at your posting history and you seem to get very emotional when people disagree with you so please calm down. Puyol has never been a world class defender, great leader, but let's be honest, he is not even been wc. Ajax has produced 3 generations of amazing players so in that there really is no comparison. Haan, Cruyff, Keizer, Rep, Resenbrink, Krol, Neeskens, van der Sar, de Boer twins, Rep, van Basten, Rijkaard, Sneijder, overmars, Bergkamp, Kluivert, Reizeger and I could go on. My point is that those three are the only really unique players I have really seen. You can call it ignorance but I just don't feel like your youth sytem is that great.

As I said I have never seen a team more dependent on one player. In the 2008 season, had Messi stayed fit all season long like he has done since Pep took over, Barcelona would have won the double. Even under Rijkaard Messi's fitness at the end made or broke Barcelona's season. Just like it is now. Where Messi to get injured Barcelona will be in very big trouble. For all the talk about Barcelona's sytem, your first team is still so dependent on one man.

Please just respond without all the melodrama in your usual post. It irks me slightly. ty

I don't even need to have a long post to say that saying La Masia isn't anything special is ridiculous.

Saying La Masia isn't much better than the rest (implied by 'nothing special') is just ridiculous

This is Barcelona teams is among the best in history, and this Spanish team is among the best in history (if not the best!), all comprised with a backbone of La Masia youth products. That's special.

I feel like your that special kind of troll that puts good effort into his posts

CBarca wrote:I don't even need to have a long post to say that saying La Masia isn't anything special is ridiculous.

Saying La Masia isn't much better than the rest (implied by 'nothing special') is just ridiculous

This is Barcelona teams is among the best in history, and this Spanish team is among the best in history (if not the best!), all comprised with a backbone of La Masia youth products. That's special.

I feel like your that special kind of troll that puts good effort into his posts

Again I ask, bar Xavi, Iniesta and Messi how many of these guys are elite level players? I really don't get it. As I've said before, I have seen your current youth team and quite frankly noone thre impressed me. Call it trolling, call it whatever you want. It seems like in this forum whenever there is an opposite opinion then it is considered trolling. I wondered why people here rarely post seriously. Now I am starting to understand why. I post my opinion, give you my reasons and you say I am a troll. I never said La masia was average, I just do not think it is anything out of the ordinary. Even with all these 'special' players, your team has too rely solely on one player. And denying that Barcelona doesn't depend on Messi is just silly. Where Messi to get injured, Barcelona would suffer a similar fate that they did in 2008. Cesc not adapting to the system is a smokescreen. The players he has to try and 'bench' are freaks. If the sytem is Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, then yes, Cesc has failed to adapt. Admitting that the sytem isn't those 3/2 opens a whole different debate.

Clockwork Orange wrote:

CBarca wrote:I don't even need to have a long post to say that saying La Masia isn't anything special is ridiculous.

Saying La Masia isn't much better than the rest (implied by 'nothing special') is just ridiculous

This is Barcelona teams is among the best in history, and this Spanish team is among the best in history (if not the best!), all comprised with a backbone of La Masia youth products. That's special.

I feel like your that special kind of troll that puts good effort into his posts

Again I ask, bar Xavi, Iniesta and Messi how many of these guys are elite level players? I really don't get it. As I've said before, I have seen your current youth team and quite frankly noone thre impressed me. Call it trolling, call it whatever you want. It seems like in this forum whenever there is an opposite opinion then it is considered trolling. I wondered why people here rarely post seriously. Now I am starting to understand why. I post my opinion, give you my reasons and you say I am a troll. I never said La masia was average, I just do not think it is anything out of the ordinary. Even with all these 'special' players, your team has too rely solely on one player. And denying that Barcelona doesn't depend on Messi is just silly. Where Messi to get injured, Barcelona would suffer a similar fate that they did in 2008. Cesc not adapting to the system is a smokescreen. The players he has to try and 'bench' are freaks. If the sytem is Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, then yes, Cesc has failed to adapt. Admitting that the sytem isn't those 3/2 opens a whole different debate.

You tell 'em Orange

Clockwork Orange

Why am I reading that the problem is not Cesc's, that it's Barca's? Barca play football fine. Cesc more often than not does not. Either Cesc learns to play his assigned role (whatever that is), or he's out. Adapt or be sold.

Also I am more than fine with a player being discontent so long as he channels these thoughts into productive improvement.

Additionally, I have yet to see a single quote of Cesc saying anything around what he has been reported to say in catalan newspapers, so I'm very inclined to believe that they're very greatly exaggerated, if they happened at all.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Why am I reading that the problem is not Cesc's, that it's Barca's? Barca play football fine. Cesc more often than not does not. Either Cesc learns to play his assigned role (whatever that is), or he's out. Adapt or be sold.

No it is both. The problem is that the new role that has been created, the Xavi role, cannot be filled by Cesc. That is the truth. I don't think people here appreciate how unique that man is. Xavi is a freak, I would have loved to see him grow up in our sytem. He is the greatest organiser of this generation. The role needs to be changed. I have noticed that anytime Xavi is not in the team, Barcelona's football resorts to the same kind of pressures they faced under Rijkaard. They lose the ball a lot more. There is a reason the ball is at that man's feet the most in almost every game.

Cesc will never adapt to that. It's like telling Sanchez to adapt to playing Messi's role. Lionel Messi is a player that has never been seen in the history of the game. While Xavi and Messi are unique in their roles, Iniesta is as close to a fantasista as I've seen. He can't organise games like Xavi, nor is he a one game changer like Messi, but he is the in between player, a sort of Zidane player. A man whose mere presence reduces the morale of the opposition team players.

Cesc was always going to struggle. The people that say Barcelona play the same way throughout are liars or they have not watched that teams youth system. As I said, I am an Ajax fan, I view your club as our sister club and the spiritual heir to Michels and van Gaal's great sides in more ways than one, but that is a lie I cannot sit here and accept.

Cesc will fail to adapt, just like anyone who came and tried to mimic the 'roles' that are being performed by Messi and Xavi will fail. Cesc can't organise like Xavi (nobody can in Europe), he cannot play like Messi (no one in history can), and he does not offer the fantasista qualities of Iniesta. The roles themselves have to be changed. When so many players are failing to adapt, it is time to look at the system. Almost every buy under the Guardiola era has failed. I am sure Deco would not have succeeded in this team either. News is that Vilanova wants to change something in the team but he does not know how Messi would react if there was a real #9. Thanks for stating your opinons clearly. I checked your history as well and you seem to be cool and down to earth.

i agree with BC in the sense that it is the duty of the player to adapt to the club not for the club to adapt or make exceptions for a player.

though there is a bit of grey area imo because cesc was signed for a particular reason (that which i am completely unsure of considering i didnt think the signing made sense in the first place. and seemed to be more about bringing home cesc than signing a player they needed) so what ever this reason may be presents somewhat of an obligation for the club to present the signed player with an opportunity to play the clubs desired role.

in this aspect i think barca have done just that and then the responsibility would fall on cesc. so if he is unhappy because he is not playing that is one thing but he knew what he was getting into when he signed for barca, his direct playing style does not fit with barcas free flowing possession style imo. barca were never going to switch to a different style just to suit 1 player.

Clockwork Orange wrote:Apart from Messi, xavi and Iniesta, I do not believe any of the playere there are world class level. Bojan? Cuenca? Is this some sort of aa joke? I have looked at your posting history and you seem to get very emotional when people disagree with you so please calm down. Puyol has never been a world class defender, great leader, but let's be honest, he is not even been wc. Ajax has produced 3 generations of amazing players so in that there really is no comparison. Haan, Cruyff, Keizer, Rep, Resenbrink, Krol, Neeskens, van der Sar, de Boer twins, Rep, van Basten, Rijkaard, Sneijder, overmars, Bergkamp, Kluivert, Reizeger and I could go on. My point is that those three are the only really unique players I have really seen. You can call it ignorance but I just don't feel like your youth sytem is that great.

As I said I have never seen a team more dependent on one player. In the 2008 season, had Messi stayed fit all season long like he has done since Pep took over, Barcelona would have won the double. Even under Rijkaard Messi's fitness at the end made or broke Barcelona's season. Just like it is now. Where Messi to get injured Barcelona will be in very big trouble. For all the talk about Barcelona's sytem, your first team is still so dependent on one man.

Please just respond without all the melodrama in your usual post. It irks me slightly. ty

LOL at this guy trying to be the voice of reason when he says Puyol has never been world class haha.

_LMG_10_ wrote:LOL at this guy trying to be the voice of reason when he says Puyol has never been world class haha.

Yes and i stand by it. I have looked at threads in this forum and the words world class seem to be thrown around a lot. As I said I think he is a great leader and a symbol, but there are multiple defenders at their best I would easily pick over puyol. He just is not up there with the elite. It's my opinion so please calm down and stop trying to defame me for not conforming to your notion that puyol is/was world class. When i use that word, I am talking about an elite level player. If you think puyol was an elite level player, then I can't argue with you.

Clockwork Orange wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Why am I reading that the problem is not Cesc's, that it's Barca's? Barca play football fine. Cesc more often than not does not. Either Cesc learns to play his assigned role (whatever that is), or he's out. Adapt or be sold.

No it is both. The problem is that the new role that has been created, the Xavi role, cannot be filled by Cesc. That is the truth. I don't think people here appreciate how unique that man is. Xavi is a freak, I would have loved to see him grow up in our sytem. He is the greatest organiser of this generation. The role needs to be changed. I have noticed that anytime Xavi is not in the team, Barcelona's football resorts to the same kind of pressures they faced under Rijkaard. They lose the ball a lot more. There is a reason the ball is at that man's feet the most in almost every game.

Cesc will never adapt to that. It's like telling Sanchez to adapt to playing Messi's role. Lionel Messi is a player that has never been seen in the history of the game. While Xavi and Messi are unique in their roles, Iniesta is as close to a fantasista as I've seen. He can't organise games like Xavi, nor is he a one game changer like Messi, but he is the in between player, a sort of Zidane player. A man whose mere presence reduces the morale of the opposition team players.

Cesc was always going to struggle. The people that say Barcelona play the same way throughout are liars or they have not watched that teams youth system. As I said, I am an Ajax fan, I view your club as our sister club and the spiritual heir to Michels and van Gaal's great sides in more ways than one, but that is a lie I cannot sit here and accept.

Cesc will fail to adapt, just like anyone who came and tried to mimic the 'roles' that are being performed by Messi and Xavi will fail. Cesc can't organise like Xavi (nobody can in Europe), he cannot play like Messi (no one in history can), and he does not offer the fantasista qualities of Iniesta. The roles themselves have to be changed. When so many players are failing to adapt, it is time to look at the system. Almost every buy under the Guardiola era has failed. I am sure Deco would not have succeeded in this team either. News is that Vilanova wants to change something in the team but he does not know how Messi would react if there was a real #9. Thanks for stating your opinons clearly. I checked your history as well and you seem to be cool and down to earth.

Haha your posts are very entertaining to read. I LOL'd at this part, but this isn't combat. It is football. I don't think his presence does anything. His feet do the talking.

As for the rest of your post, you are indirectly saying Cesc is not good enough for Barca, but you're deflecting the blame on the ridgidness of system. The truth is, the system can only exist by having the skill level of the players Barca has. Any less and it will implode. Even moving around "small" pieces like Pedro or Pique will have a drastic effect on the performance of the team.

Cesc Fabregas does not have the skill set to succeed in the midfield. It is really that simple. IT was a retarded transfer to begin with. As an earlier poster said, he was bought not to fullfill a role on the team, but just for the sake of buying their lost long child.

Clockwork Orange wrote:

_LMG_10_ wrote:LOL at this guy trying to be the voice of reason when he says Puyol has never been world class haha.

Yes and i stand by it. I have looked at threads in this forum and the words world class seem to be thrown around a lot. As I said I think he is a great leader and a symbol, but there are multiple defenders at their best I would easily pick over puyol. He just is not up there with the elite. It's my opinion so please calm down and stop trying to defame me for not conforming to your notion that puyol is/was world class. When i use that word, I am talking about an elite level player. If you think puyol was an elite level player, then I can't argue with you.

What else does a person have to do? He's won it all, multiple times. He's commanded 'arguably' the best team in history. Just because guys like Maldini, Nesta and Baresi have existed, doesn't mean Puyol is not world class.

You're right that the term world class is thrown around too loosely but you're doing just the opposite. Your definition is too narrow. You need to take a good hard look at the start of Puyol's career, and then look at it now. Then go watch some of his performances against Real Madrid.

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Why am I reading that the problem is not Cesc's, that it's Barca's? Barca play football fine. Cesc more often than not does not. Either Cesc learns to play his assigned role (whatever that is), or he's out. Adapt or be sold.

No it is both. The problem is that the new role that has been created, the Xavi role, cannot be filled by Cesc. That is the truth. I don't think people here appreciate how unique that man is. Xavi is a freak, I would have loved to see him grow up in our sytem. He is the greatest organiser of this generation. The role needs to be changed. I have noticed that anytime Xavi is not in the team, Barcelona's football resorts to the same kind of pressures they faced under Rijkaard. They lose the ball a lot more. There is a reason the ball is at that man's feet the most in almost every game.

Cesc will never adapt to that. It's like telling Sanchez to adapt to playing Messi's role. Lionel Messi is a player that has never been seen in the history of the game. While Xavi and Messi are unique in their roles, Iniesta is as close to a fantasista as I've seen. He can't organise games like Xavi, nor is he a one game changer like Messi, but he is the in between player, a sort of Zidane player. A man whose mere presence reduces the morale of the opposition team players.

Cesc was always going to struggle. The people that say Barcelona play the same way throughout are liars or they have not watched that teams youth system. As I said, I am an Ajax fan, I view your club as our sister club and the spiritual heir to Michels and van Gaal's great sides in more ways than one, but that is a lie I cannot sit here and accept.

Cesc will fail to adapt, just like anyone who came and tried to mimic the 'roles' that are being performed by Messi and Xavi will fail. Cesc can't organise like Xavi (nobody can in Europe), he cannot play like Messi (no one in history can), and he does not offer the fantasista qualities of Iniesta. The roles themselves have to be changed. When so many players are failing to adapt, it is time to look at the system. Almost every buy under the Guardiola era has failed. I am sure Deco would not have succeeded in this team either. News is that Vilanova wants to change something in the team but he does not know how Messi would react if there was a real #9. Thanks for stating your opinons clearly. I checked your history as well and you seem to be cool and down to earth.

Haha your posts are very entertaining to read. I LOL'd at this part, but this isn't combat. It is football. I don't think his presence does anything. His feet do the talking.

As for the rest of your post, you are indirectly saying Cesc is not good enough for Barca, but you're deflecting the blame on the ridgidness of system. The truth is, the system can only exist by having the skill level of the players Barca has. Any less and it will implode. Even moving around "small" pieces like Pedro or Pique will have a drastic effect on the performance of the team.

Cesc Fabregas does not have the skill set to succeed in the midfield. It is really that simple. IT was a retarded transfer to begin with. As an earlier poster said, he was bought not to fullfill a role on the team, but just for the sake of buying their lost long child.

Haha. Thanks, I was just trying to emphasise my point. Iniesta has a Zidane, Riquelme, Baggio feel to his game.

Yes I know Cesc can't play those positions, but my point is noone else can. What Xavi does has never been doen before and noone in the youth teams even does it. All three are too unique ate what they bring to that team. The wingers are all going to be the same. Pedro is as good as both Villa and Henry have been for Barcelona, perhaps better because he knows he has role to do and was never a bright star anywhere so perhaps it's easier for him to perform his task. The wide players are essentially there to stretch the defence to create space for one Lionel Messi. Under the current set up ROnaldinho at his peak would struggle. The only players that I can think that will do well are players with extreme;y good close control.

My point is this role that these three play are not system roles. Barcelona didn't play false 9 in their youth systems, they did not have a dominaant organiser nor do they have anbyone with even 2/5ths the potential of Iniesta. That is why a lot of people have said once these players go, Barcelona's style will have to change. Good points you bring up though.

_LMG_10_ wrote:What else does a person have to do? He's won it all, multiple times. He's commanded 'arguably' the best team in history. Just because guys like Maldini, Nesta and Baresi have existed, doesn't mean Puyol is not world class.

You're right that the term world class is thrown around too loosely but you're doing just the opposite. Your definition is too narrow. You need to take a good hard look at the start of Puyol's career, and then look at it now. Then go watch some of his performances against Real Madrid.

Again I must reiterate, I think Puyol is a great defender, I just do not consider him world class. I have been fortunate to see the likes of Baresi, Maldini, Gentile and a lot of other great defenders. Puyol quite frankly, is at least two levels below. Performing great against Real Madrid is nice, but against Real MAdrid under Pep, I think everyone has shone. A team is more than the sum of it's individual parts. In terms of his singular attributes, he is lacking a few things. I am clealry beating a dead horse here, let us agrre to disagree. As I said great defender, nowhere near the elite levels. He has never been the best defender in the world at any point in his career and will never be, that doesn't mean he is not good.

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:

Be/\/ceCALI wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:The problem is not Cesc's, the problem is Barcelona's playing style. I have had this discussion with my friend's before, and we all agreed that Cesc moving to Barcelona was a bad move. The way people on here praise La Masia is bewildering, especially considering how many amazing players my teams youth academy had produced.

I have always maintained the fact that Xavi, Inesta and Messi are freaks. Cesc's problem is that he was brought in as a long term replacement for Xavi, which quite frankly, is the most stupid transfer I have ever witnessed. Xavi is the best organiser I have ever seen. Barcelona's sytem isn't impossible, it's following the 3 freaks that is impossible. Barcelona is so Messi dependent it is frightening. I have never seen one team depend on one player in my life, it ios essentially the anti-thesis to what van Gaal did at Ajax. Barcelona might have a system, but they have built it completely around Messi. It's no surprise that when he does not turn up, Barcelona's level as a whole drops.

I have seen a lot of Barcelona youth games, I am sorry I do not rate la masia as highly as the media, and a lot of people in Amsterdam agree with my asertions as well. If I remmeber correctly, a president of one of the Brazilaian clubs said something similar, of how he thought there was nothing special about la masia. He was telling the truth. Cesc was going to alwaysstruggle, because the roles he was going to occupy, are filled by 1 in a lifetime players. If it was as sytematic as people are saying, he will have adaptd a lot faster, but he is expected to mimic Messi and Xavi, so it was never going to work. I feel that Barcelona needs to start looking at their system, and why so many players adapt rather than looking at the players. Say what you want, but Barcelonas 'system' at the moment is to circulate and distribute the ball around one Lionel Messi.

great post. can't say I disagree with any of it

Then can you two tell us why they produce so many immense players over the past years.

Is there something in the water? Do they feed them a certain plant that makes them better then other youth players?

Please tell me.

When you produce players with the quality of Cesc, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets, Pedro, Tello, Valdes, Puyol, Pique, Arteta, Cuenca, Thiago, Dos Santos, Alba, Montoya, Guardiola, Bojan, Thiago Motta, De La Pena, Pepe Reina, Jeffren and on and on.

What makes you not impressed? And as for watching some of there youth team and not being impressed, they almost won Spain's second division league and was in position to be promoted but wasn't allowed to be in the same league as there parent club.

Do you know how many international Youth tournaments Spain has won over the last 5 years with there teams chalk full of Barcelona players? I could go on listing them as well.

I mean for someone to say there not that impressed with La Masia and another poster agreeing to it is just the height of total either ignorance (which I hope it is) or just plain hate.

I don't know what more you could possibly want from your youth academy then be good enough to qualify to compete in the same league as your senior team.

What a joke your post is, I'm sorry for the harshness of my post but this is just insane.

Apart from Messi, xavi and Iniesta, I do not believe any of the playere there are world class level. Bojan? Cuenca? Is this some sort of aa joke? I have looked at your posting history and you seem to get very emotional when people disagree with you so please calm down. Puyol has never been a world class defender, great leader, but let's be honest, he is not even been wc. Ajax has produced 3 generations of amazing players so in that there really is no comparison. Haan, Cruyff, Keizer, Rep, Resenbrink, Krol, Neeskens, van der Sar, de Boer twins, Rep, van Basten, Rijkaard, Sneijder, overmars, Bergkamp, Kluivert, Reizeger and I could go on. My point is that those three are the only really unique players I have really seen. You can call it ignorance but I just don't feel like your youth sytem is that great.

As I said I have never seen a team more dependent on one player. In the 2008 season, had Messi stayed fit all season long like he has done since Pep took over, Barcelona would have won the double. Even under Rijkaard Messi's fitness at the end made or broke Barcelona's season. Just like it is now. Where Messi to get injured Barcelona will be in very big trouble. For all the talk about Barcelona's sytem, your first team is still so dependent on one man.

Please just respond without all the melodrama in your usual post. It irks me slightly. ty

LOL at this guy trying to be the voice of reason when he says Puyol has never been world class haha.

To be fair, he used the term "elite players". Both "world-class + "elite players" are open to interpretation. Personally I would agree that more than the few cited by Clockwork are deserving of being considered "world-class".

I think the basic point is that La Masia is over-rated, an opinion I am inclined to agree with. I think its important to be mindful however that La Masia has only recently been so highly regarded and that is because of these "freak" players you refer to.

Ajax have for a long time had a tremendous youth system and have led innovation in football. I and many admire it greatly (also partly as my club has benefitted greatly from it ). Clockwork - to me your argument may be aided by not drawing a comparison with the Ajax youth system as it makes your argument appear subjective. Even though I understand you are merely stating it is over-rated..

clockwork, good point about the youths system playing a different style but I think that shows just how competent the technical and coaching staff has been. It shows that they catered the system to the strengths of the players. You can't always play the exact same way but you can retain a core philsophy of attacking football with short passes, high possession and high line.

This system worked brilliantly for the current players and you're right that it will need to adapt as the older players get phased out, but that's up to the coaching staff and that's how a team evolves.

Point is, Cesc has no one to blame but himself if he can't adapt his game to the current Barcelona style. It was him who wanted to come and play for his hometown club knowing full well what he's getting into. Guys like Mascherano have done a 180 on their game, but Cesc can't make a few adjustments to the way he plays? Give me a break

_LMG_10_ wrote:clockwork, good point about the youths system playing a different style but I think that shows just how competent the technical and coaching staff has been. It shows that they catered the system to the strengths of the players. You can't always play the exact same way but you can retain a core philsophy of attacking football with short passes, high possession and high line.

This system worked brilliantly for the current players and you're right that it will need to adapt as the older players get phased out, but that's up to the coaching staff and that's how a team evolves.

Point is, Cesc has no one to blame but himself if he can't adapt his game to the current Barcelona style. It was him who wanted to come and play for his hometown club knowing full well what he's getting into. Guys like Mascherano have done a 180 on their game, but Cesc can't make a few adjustments to the way he plays? Give me a break

I agree with Cesc failing to adapt but the roles he has to adapt to are unadaptable...ble. HAHAHAHAHAI don't even know how to type that. English is not my first language, apologies. Anyway, As I have mentines, the only places he can play are occupied by 2 once in generation players and a player that football has never had. BArcelona will have to change the system to fit his strengths. There is no way about it. You can't buy a player knowing his strengths and expect him to mimic those guys. It's a stupid amount of expectation to have on somebody. Thanks for the debate. I feel both are at fault.

CBarca wrote:I don't even need to have a long post to say that saying La Masia isn't anything special is ridiculous.

Saying La Masia isn't much better than the rest (implied by 'nothing special') is just ridiculous

This is Barcelona teams is among the best in history, and this Spanish team is among the best in history (if not the best!), all comprised with a backbone of La Masia youth products. That's special.

I feel like your that special kind of troll that puts good effort into his posts

Thankyou