Re: Quarter final: England vs Italy discussion

by RED Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:26 pm

italy are nothing special and are overrated.

I am confident England will beat them.

Should be a good game.

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@ Arte....Carroll maybe good in the air, but he offers nothing else. He has a poor touch, his hold up play is non existant and he makes England play a more direct hoof ball tactic. He did very well to take his header v Sweden, but v a defensive team like Italy, England will need to keep the ball in ground and unlock them via quick link up play......+ direct crosses, both options in which welbeck and Rooney excell at (as proven for United)

With Welbeck, England have more to offer up front. Welbeck was quite v Ukraine today due to England's deep lying CM'ers and the fact that England's wingers are really poor. He has to feed off scraps. But deliver a good ball in the box, like v Sweden, and you see that bit of improvisational play that is needed at the top level. Plus his close control and passing is better suited to partner Rooney.

by Abramovich Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:28 pm

Cotes wrote:
dronte wrote:Italy shouldn't underestimate England at all. Yes we are favorites but still, we kinda struggled vs Ireland too..

Italy Favourites?????
what are you smoking?
The Italy that everyone thought wouldn't make it out of their group?
The Italy who have scandal & World Cup 2010 hanging over their heads?
The Italy who lost Rossi, Criscito & Now Chiellini???

These people don't care about history, if they did, so much people wouldn't run their mouths!
I believe we will win, but we are not the favourites....

I think the book makers will make you slight favourites, like 55-45 or maybe something even like 52-48.

Just out of interest are you Jamaican or Italian?

by DuringTheWar Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:31 pm

i predict a penalty shootout

by aleumdance Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:33 pm

RED 80s. wrote:italy are nothing special and are overrated.

I am confident England will beat them.

Should be a good game.

-----

@ Arte....Carroll maybe good in the air, but he offers nothing else. He has a poor touch, his hold up play is non existant and he makes England play a more direct hoof ball tactic. He did very well to take his header v Sweden, but v a defensive team like Italy, England will need to keep the ball in ground and unlock them via quick link up play......+ direct crosses, both options in which welbeck and Rooney excell at (as proven for United)

With Welbeck, England have more to offer up front. Welbeck was quite v Ukraine today due to England's deep lying CM'ers and the fact that England's wingers are really poor. He has to feed off scraps. But deliver a good ball in the box, like v Sweden, and you see that bit of improvisational play that is needed at the top level. Plus his close control and passing is better suited to partner Rooney.

*grabs popcorn*

by REWB Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:34 pm

RED 80s. wrote:italy are nothing special and are overrated.

I am confident England will beat them.

Should be a good game.

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but england cant even pass the damn ball, how are they going to do anything against italy?

by Jay29 Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:39 pm

@ Arte....Carroll maybe good in the air, but he offers nothing else. He has a poor touch, his hold up play is non existant and he makes England play a more direct hoof ball tactic. He did very well to take his header v Sweden, but v a defensive team like Italy, England will need to keep the ball in ground and unlock them via quick link up play......+ direct crosses, both options in which welbeck and Rooney excell at (as proven for United)

While I do agree with your assessment of Carroll, this Italy team under Prandelli is not stereotypically defensive. They're a positive side who look to attack and play passing football and the chances we're going to have 10 men behind the ball and looking to score on the counter or from set-pieces.

In that sense, there's some logic in playing Carroll, regardless of his faults as a player. From the little I've seen of Italy, they haven't looked particularly convincing when defending crosses so it might be worth playing Carroll to see if we can exploit that.

In any case, I sincerely hope Milner is dropped from the game, and possibly Young, as well. While Young did play better today, he and Milner have been disappointing so far and I think Walcott might give Italy's LB/LWB (depending on the formation they play) more problems.

by Jay29 Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:42 pm

REWB wrote:
RED 80s. wrote:italy are nothing special and are overrated.

I am confident England will beat them.

Should be a good game.

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but england cant even pass the damn ball, how are they going to do anything against italy?

The same way we did something against France; defend deep and look to score from set-pieces and counters.

by Guest Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:44 pm

Red 80s thin Hodgson teams will actually DICTATE the play.

If England'd midfield is bypassed by Ukraine, there is no hope of that against Italy.

England are pulling a Greece this year, and come on RED 80s, Welbeck was INVISIBLE tonight. Absolutely. Carroll set up a great chance for Ox last in the game which Ox ruined btw

by aleumdance Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:52 pm

Schweini wrote:Red 80s thin Hodgson teams will actually DICTATE the play.

If England'd midfield is bypassed by Ukraine, there is no hope of that against Italy.

England are pulling a Greece this year, and come on RED 80s, Welbeck was INVISIBLE tonight. Absolutely. Carroll set up a great chance for Ox last in the game which Ox ruined btw

technically, EnglaND Have dictated play all 3 games

they have forced sewden, france and ukraine to do what they want

hold them hard, force them to shoot from far and counter like mad

we all know who tops the group

by RED Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:58 pm

Schweini wrote:Red 80s thin Hodgson teams will actually DICTATE the play.

If England'd midfield is bypassed by Ukraine, there is no hope of that against Italy.

England are pulling a Greece this year, and come on RED 80s, Welbeck was INVISIBLE tonight. Absolutely. Carroll set up a great chance for Ox last in the game which Ox ruined btw

he was feeding off scraps, mate. He goes deep to be involved and he will be stepping on Rooney's toes. He literally had no option other than running for loose balls. Carroll is good in the air, but when both Milner and Young are having shocker of a tourno's, where are the quality balls to the box gonna come from?

England can't keep relying on Gerrard's superb crosses all the time. Most of his balls go to either side of the field, but England's wing play have been atrocious so far. For set pieces we have Terry and Lescott in the box, both very good in the air.

I still think we need Welbeck due to the fact he adds more to the team. With Carroll, Chiellini (who's a big man himself) wouldn't be troubled imo. And England's tactics will be predictable.

@GoonerJay....this post is in response to yours too.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:00 am

LOL Wut we have done nothing but get lucky..... fact is we didnt deserved to beat Ukraine or Sweden.

We have done nothing special tactically we are just riding on luck atm.

I admit we defended well against France but against Sweden and Ukraine its been pure f*cking luck.

We didnt force anything on anyone we just got lucky that said team's didnt take thier chances.

Sure it might continue but lets not pretend we are putting on tactical masterpieces.

Oh and Italy overrated? who rates them on here lol.... many people have said before the tournament they would'nt even get out of the group.

Oh and Italy are not overrated talentwise, they have great talent unfortunatly for them which will be their downfall they have a horrible coach.

by leemhuis Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:05 am

A few points:

If Croatia had been in England's group they would have progressed.

England is ranked higher than Italy by FIFA

If England thinks its going to out Italy Italy they are not thinking correctly. England will have to attack or the two teams will just look at each other for 120 minutes. Italy played attacking football against Spain and Croatia because they are attacking teams.

by RED Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:09 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:LOL Wut we have done nothing but get lucky..... fact is we didnt deserved to beat Ukraine or Sweden.

We have done nothing special tactically we are just riding on luck atm.

I admit we defended well against France but against Sweden and Ukraine its been pure f*cking luck.

We didnt force anything on anyone we just got lucky that said team's didnt take thier chances.

Sure it might continue but lets not pretend we are putting on tactical masterpieces.

Oh and Italy overrated? who rates them on here lol.... many people have said before the tournament they would'nt even get out of the group.

Oh and Italy are not overrated talentwise, they have great talent unfortunatly for them which will be their downfall they have a horrible coach.

Luck v Sweden..how? They scored via an O.G, and another from a defensive howler (something they copped from spying on England's team breifing, poor form from the Swedes). Conceding both those goals were more England shooting themselves on the foot, rather than Sweden outplaying England and scoring 2 goals from open play.

V Ukraine. Apart from one chance in the first half, England were comfortable and put up a great organised team performance. The goal that never was for Ukraine came from one of their players being offside, and their other chance- the clear cut header, was also offside. England were comfortable and did what they had to do to get the win.

Let's take into consideration, pretty much everyone thought England would either get knocked out in the group stages, or barely qualify. To finish 1st and remain undefeated is a great achievement...especially when dross like Milner is a starter.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:19 am

Let's see Ukraine had a perfect legitimate goal disallowed.... a load of chances that were saved or just poor finishing......

England comfortable? maybe after the disallowed goal but for the first 60 mins we was all over the place and were lucky to not concede at least once.

Sweden had plenty of chances too, its not like we stopped them from playing we were just lucky they didn't take their chances.

France we stopped from playing and i do give credit there but against Sweden and Ukraine we have been lucky.....

There's no tactical genius here just defend in numbers and hope for the best.

Also where did i say it was'nt a success? of course it is but lets not get delusional we haven't done anything special tactically and stopped teams from playing in 2 of the 3 games we have just got lucky.

It's really that simple, as i said it could continue but lets not try and preach we have been tactically great and solid because we haven't been we have just been lucky that the chances teams have had against us haven't been taken.

I mean even England fans that went to the game that was interviewed by SS News admitted we were verly lucky today and so did the reporter.

But somehow on GL we have been tactical masterminds who have stopped teams from playing and held them at arms length Laughing

by Jay29 Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:21 am

@GoonerJay....this post is in response to yours too.

Apparently, Cheillini will miss the game. Barzagli would probably handle Carroll well, but he might get some joy out of Bonucci and/or De Rossi. It's arguable that Italy would be more comfortable defending on the ground against Welbeck than in the air against a big lug like Carroll.

While I do agree we need to find other ways to create chances and score goals, it's highly doubtful we're going to change things in order to allow that to happen. Given the players we have at our disposal, the only way, in my opinion, we'd be able to pass the ball better would be if we switched to a 4-3-3. Even then, it's a stretch, and not really a risk worth taking at this stage in the tournament when we seem to be faring well with 4-4-2.

I admit we defended well against France but against Sweden and Ukraine its been pure f*cking luck.

We didnt force anything on anyone we just got lucky that said team's didnt take thier chances.

I think you're being a bit harsh. In all three games, we haven't given up many clear cut opportunities to the opposition. Tonight, for example, the large majority of Ukraine's shots at goal were from outside the box - indicative of a team who couldn't break the other down enough to create better scoring chances.

I'm not saying we're tactical masters by any means, but we've generally defended well and scored the chances we have created. We actually had the best conversion rate out of all the teams in the group stages.

England is ranked higher than Italy by FIFA

That really does not mean anything.

If England thinks its going to out Italy Italy they are not thinking correctly. England will have to attack or the two teams will just look at each other for 120 minutes. Italy played attacking football against Spain and Croatia because they are attacking teams.

I'm not quite following your logic here. Are you saying that because we're a defensive side, Italy will play defensively? scratch

by RED Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:28 am

Mole. England are through, top of the group, undefeated.

Let's be happy and forget about the negativity. Deal? Smile

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:29 am

RED 80s. wrote:Mole. England are through, top of the group, undefeated.

Let's be happy and forget about the negativity. Deal?

Deal as long as i dont see any more threads saying Hodgson >>>>>> Capello because we got through the group Laughing

by RED Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:29 am

@GoonerJay, with Chiellini missing that does add another perspective. I still think the attack should be the same, but bring in Walcott in place of the woeful Milner.

by dostoevsky Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:39 am

Mole is going to reverse jinx England to the title, I can see it now.

I trust Prandelli about as far as I can throw him and regardless of how we perform, England will be worthy adversaries who will push us all the way. Discussions of 'talent' don't mean much on the international scene, and I find even the excuse of luck to be tenuous at times, even if for particular game the discussion is absolutely relevant. England have been able to win their games and in international tournaments - not, however as a general rule - that means more to me than a side who have played well without result. Either side is quite capable of getting a result and to be honest, that's what we should be hoping for in the quarter finals of a major tournament. I can't say I'm expecting a game that's pleasant on the eye, however it should be nail-biting.

I'm about twenty minutes from starting a road trip and I don't think I'll be able to get on again until the day after this match, what a week to miss. Sad

Be nice to each other guys and don't get banned in my absence. Razz

by Luca Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:42 am

I think you guys are looking at the wrong match ups personally.

England's wing play vs. Italy's fullbacks is one area I'm really considering.
I'm assuming that Balzaretti/Abate will be on the left and right respectively and I think England can do some damage against them.

In the middle, you'll have Pirlo, De Rossi, Marchisio and possibly even Motta against Parker, Gerrard and Rooney probably dropping deep at times.

Going to be a good game. I hope Italy wins obviously

by Swanhends Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:54 am

English blood, sweat, and steel will be enough to overcome those wine and cheese loving surrender-monkeys

But they must beware of the Balo :coffee:

Quarter final: England vs Italy discussion - Page 2 19-scotty415

by Luca Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:55 am

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:English blood, sweat, and steel will be enough to overcome those wine and cheese loving surrender-monkeys

But they must beware of the Balo

Inter fan going against Italy
The prophecy of JNC continues

by Grande_Milano Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:56 am

Mole Ukraine goal was false, Milevsky was offside in that attack Wink

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:59 am

Why are Italian-supporters so cocky? Would anyone remind me, when Italian teams and English teams played in the CL during the past 4 years, which side has overwhelmingly won most of the encounters?

by Grande_Milano Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:03 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Why are Italian-supporters so cocky? Would anyone remind me, when Italian teams and English teams played in the CL during the past 4 years, which side has overwhelmingly won most of the encounters?

CL. The most of these English teams have foreign players and coaches

The English NT suck period. I ve seen them getting out of the group, its not too hard. But they simply lack talentwise.

1) Germany
2) Spain
3) Italy
4) France/Portugal
5) England

by Luca Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:11 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Why are Italian-supporters so cocky? Would anyone remind me, when Italian teams and English teams played in the CL during the past 4 years, which side has overwhelmingly won most of the encounters?

I see what you're trying, but this is just stupid.
Also, if you read through the thread you'd see fans from both sides being cocky, and fans being humble and respectful.

Don't generalize

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