What these big signings really mean

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What these big signings really mean Empty What these big signings really mean

Post by Shed Tue May 29, 2012 11:45 pm

I suppose we should be happy with all these big-name signings coming in, with Hazard about to sign, Hulk seemingly on the verge of signing, and possibly one or two others, but what does this mean for all our younger prospects?

With all these attacking players being brought in, what are we to make of people like DeBruyne's and Piazon's prospects in the first team in the coming seasons? Did we not buy these players in an attempt to find quality on the cheap? And now only to go out and splash almost £100m on big-name attacking players??

If they go out looking to bring in another midfielder, what are people like Josh and other promising players in the youth and reserve teams going to feel is their future at the club? And with right-back; if we're looking to bring in a VDW/Azpilicueta type, what does it say about Hutch and Toddy Kane's chances in the coming years with two quality RB's already in the squad?

Perhaps it's just me overreacting or over-thinking the situation, but surely I'm not the only one concerned about this. Putting a bunch of big-name players in a group doesn't necessarily make a successful team, and with the lack of players in the team who have been with us since youth and have a connection to the club (i.e. JT), I feel this could become a real issue.
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Post by Blue Barrett Tue May 29, 2012 11:52 pm

Relax, mate. Very Happy

I don't think it'll affect their chances, honestly. Piazon probably has a year or two left before he'll start getting serious consideration.

If Robbie gets the job, you can be sure the youngsters will get a chance. He knows what it means and the value it can bring to a club. He watched JT being eased into the first team back then. He knos the value. He even started Bertrand in the CL final when he could easily have started Torres on the wing. How many managers will take that risk? I have no doubt they will get their run.

At the same time, we've got to realise that not all the youngsters are ready. The closest right now(bar Courtois) seem to be Chalobah, Piazon, Kane in that order ad then you can throw in De Bruyne.

Btw, there are rumours that we're loaning De Bruyne to Lille, which I think is fair.
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Post by Kick Tue May 29, 2012 11:59 pm

The way I see it, Lukaku and Sturridge will not be affected, both will (hopefully) one day be running our attack.

Piazon is wayy to much of a talent to lose so he too will be a starter one day, he does have 5-6 years on Mata so not much of a problem there IMO.

De Bruyne is in the same boat as Piazon, Huge Talent, however, he is older and will probably replace FloMo on the bench soon.

Kakuta loses out, big time, he has to step up or he will be sold. So does Lalkovic.

I imagine Hazard won't be here forever, I can see him doing a CR7 and moving to Real for Massive money once he is the best player in the world. This would help Piazon's and De Bruyne's cause.

Josh is still the Heir to the Lampard throne. A new CM, as long as he isn't some wonderkid won't changed that.

Todd Kane is our best RB in the young squad, he will be a first teamer one day, hopefully a starter if he keeps going the way he is, but he like Piazon, is a few years off that.

Hutchinson is no longer good enough for us, Decent backup but I imagine he will be sold once a good offer comes in.
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Post by Shed Wed May 30, 2012 12:03 am

Barrettinator wrote:Relax, mate. Very Happy

I don't think it'll affect their chances, honestly. Piazon probably has a year or two left before he'll start getting serious consideration.

If Robbie gets the job, you can be sure the youngsters will get a chance. He knows what it means and the value it can bring to a club. He watched JT being eased into the first team back then. He knos the value. He even started Bertrand in the CL final when he could easily have started Torres on the wing. How many managers will take that risk? I have no doubt they will get their run.

At the same time, we've got to realise that not all the youngsters are ready. The closest right now(bar Courtois) seem to be Chalobah, Piazon, Kane in that order ad then you can throw in De Bruyne.

Btw, there are rumours that we're loaning De Bruyne to Lille, which I think is fair.

No, no question about that, it takes time. But do we really see these 30 and 40 million pound players being benched to make way for, say, Piazon's development? Or to give DeBruyne time to see if he lives up to what we think he will? Unlikely.

The problem is, the idiotic board is trying to do it both ways. They want to find the smaller, hidden gems for the future (DeBruyne, Piazon, Izzy Feruz, etc.), while also splashing for big-name, established players for every position when the need arises. You can't have it both ways. It's either one or the other.

One or two quality signings are one thing, but it looks like we're just gonna be so excessive this summer, when I think alot of us thought they were starting to change their way of thinking. They're wasting tons of money because they don't have a set philosophy on how things are going to be done, and that comes done to the lack of stability at the club.

All I know is, they better get their acts together. The next managerial appointment is gonna be crucial. Because this is becoming unsustainable.
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Post by Blue Barrett Wed May 30, 2012 12:10 am

ShedEnd1905 wrote:
Barrettinator wrote:Relax, mate. Very Happy

I don't think it'll affect their chances, honestly. Piazon probably has a year or two left before he'll start getting serious consideration.

If Robbie gets the job, you can be sure the youngsters will get a chance. He knows what it means and the value it can bring to a club. He watched JT being eased into the first team back then. He knos the value. He even started Bertrand in the CL final when he could easily have started Torres on the wing. How many managers will take that risk? I have no doubt they will get their run.

At the same time, we've got to realise that not all the youngsters are ready. The closest right now(bar Courtois) seem to be Chalobah, Piazon, Kane in that order ad then you can throw in De Bruyne.

Btw, there are rumours that we're loaning De Bruyne to Lille, which I think is fair.

No, no question about that, it takes time. But do we really see these 30 and 40 million pound players being benched to make way for, say, Piazon's development? Or to give DeBruyne time to see if he lives up to what we think he will? Unlikely.

The problem is, the idiotic board is trying to do it both ways. They want to find the smaller, hidden gems for the future (DeBruyne, Piazon, Izzy Feruz, etc.), while also splashing for big-name, established players for every position when the need arises. You can't have it both ways. It's either one or the other.

One or two quality signings are one thing, but it looks like we're just gonna be so excessive this summer, when I think alot of us thought they were starting to change their way of thinking. They're wasting tons of money because they don't have a set philosophy on how things are going to be done, and that comes done to the lack of stability at the club.

All I know is, they better get their acts together. The next managerial appointment is gonna be crucial. Because this is becoming unsustainable.
Not the way you put it. Its not like Hazard/Hulk are going to be benched for 1,2,3,etc matches just to assess the youngsters. It has to start with sub appearances here and there first, you know. Its a process.

Thing is, it was clear that a number of the senior players were going to leave this summer but you can't just take youngsters straight from the academy and plug in the holes left by the senior players. Its too much of a risk. Its a gradual process which I'm sure will be implemented.
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Post by Shed Wed May 30, 2012 12:25 am

Barrettinator wrote:
ShedEnd1905 wrote:
Barrettinator wrote:Relax, mate. Very Happy

I don't think it'll affect their chances, honestly. Piazon probably has a year or two left before he'll start getting serious consideration.

If Robbie gets the job, you can be sure the youngsters will get a chance. He knows what it means and the value it can bring to a club. He watched JT being eased into the first team back then. He knos the value. He even started Bertrand in the CL final when he could easily have started Torres on the wing. How many managers will take that risk? I have no doubt they will get their run.

At the same time, we've got to realise that not all the youngsters are ready. The closest right now(bar Courtois) seem to be Chalobah, Piazon, Kane in that order ad then you can throw in De Bruyne.

Btw, there are rumours that we're loaning De Bruyne to Lille, which I think is fair.

No, no question about that, it takes time. But do we really see these 30 and 40 million pound players being benched to make way for, say, Piazon's development? Or to give DeBruyne time to see if he lives up to what we think he will? Unlikely.

The problem is, the idiotic board is trying to do it both ways. They want to find the smaller, hidden gems for the future (DeBruyne, Piazon, Izzy Feruz, etc.), while also splashing for big-name, established players for every position when the need arises. You can't have it both ways. It's either one or the other.

One or two quality signings are one thing, but it looks like we're just gonna be so excessive this summer, when I think alot of us thought they were starting to change their way of thinking. They're wasting tons of money because they don't have a set philosophy on how things are going to be done, and that comes done to the lack of stability at the club.

All I know is, they better get their acts together. The next managerial appointment is gonna be crucial. Because this is becoming unsustainable.
Not the way you put it. Its not like Hazard/Hulk are going to be benched for 1,2,3,etc matches just to assess the youngsters. It has to start with sub appearances here and there first, you know. Its a process.

Thing is, it was clear that a number of the senior players were going to leave this summer but you can't just take youngsters straight from the academy and plug in the holes left by the senior players. Its too much of a risk. Its a gradual process which I'm sure will be implemented.

Yea, like I said, of course I don't expect them to get rid of the current crop we have now and bring through the academy players straight away. That would be insane. What I'm trying to say is, it seems they're so stock-piling us with talent, some are bound to miss out, and we all know which one's they'll be.

For example, the left side. We already have Mata and Hazard who will presumably be interchanging between there and the 10 position. Then we have DeBruyne and Marin (although more of a squad player if current expectations prove correct)...then we also have Piazon who is being groomed there at the youth level...plus anyone they'd potentially decide to sign in the future on their own accord. It's just so much, and as I said, some are bound to not get their chance.

Perhaps I'm not getting it across the way it is in my head, but I think its a problem in the long-term I feel.

Bottom line is, people like Gourlay, Emenalo and even Roman shouldn't be building a team without the manager's input, and certainly not when there's not even one in place. A manager should be there to set the agenda going forward in terms of how to fill positions and modify the squad with a good balance of imported signings and youngsters, and we just don't have that with all these hirings and firings that have been done in the last decade.
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Post by Blue Barrett Wed May 30, 2012 12:46 am

Which is why Robbie is best for the job. He seems willing to work with whatever the board want to go with. Not sure Pep or Mou or any other top manager can stand that. They're all used to being in total control of things. Robbie loves the club first and foremost. Secondly, he has also learnt from AVB's mistakes and he'll just roll with the board.

FWIW, I don't think we'll be signing anyone else on that left side for a long, long time lol.
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Post by Shed Wed May 30, 2012 12:53 am

Barrettinator wrote:Which is why Robbie is best for the job. He seems willing to work with whatever the board want to go with. Not sure Pep or Mou or any other top manager can stand that. They're all used to being in total control of things. Robbie loves the club first and foremost. Secondly, he has also learnt from AVB's mistakes and he'll just roll with the board.

FWIW, I don't think we'll be signing anyone else on that left side for a long, long time lol.

Yea. Like I said even in my original post, it's probably just me over-thinking things (again Very Happy ), but there are many who do feel that long term, there are things to be concerned about.

Oh well, we'll just have to see what comes of things as the summer pans out Smile
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Post by LWL91 Wed May 30, 2012 1:13 am

Why do you even have talents? They are never gonna get the chance and you're rich enough to buy new players every single season no matter the result of the past? I considered Piazon a great talent until he signed with Chelsea instead of Juve.. He will never get the chance in Chelsea, you need the results and don't have the patience. Do you guys have any idea how much your youngsters even make? I bet Lukaku is rich as *bleep* already. Piazon went to Chelsea and snubbed Juve for the money, and we're even stealing from United apparently. Where is this inflated football market going to end?
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Post by Shed Wed May 30, 2012 1:22 am

LWL91 wrote:Why do you even have talents? They are never gonna get the chance and you're rich enough to buy new players every single season no matter the result of the past? I considered Piazon a great talent until he signed with Chelsea instead of Juve.. He will never get the chance in Chelsea, you need the results and don't have the patience. Do you guys have any idea how much your youngsters even make? I bet Lukaku is rich as *bleep* already. Piazon went to Chelsea and snubbed Juve for the money, and we're even stealing from United apparently. Where is this inflated football market going to end?

Well that's the whole point of this thread. The board seem to want to find young talent on the cheap for the future, while at the same time splashing big money on high-profile players for every position any time the need arises.

Believe me, if I had the answers to your questions, I'd tell you. This is just one of the many things supporters of this club have been trying to make sense of for years.
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Post by Blue Barrett Wed May 30, 2012 1:24 am

LWL91 wrote:Why do you even have talents? They are never gonna get the chance and you're rich enough to buy new players every single season no matter the result of the past? I considered Piazon a great talent until he signed with Chelsea instead of Juve.. He will never get the chance in Chelsea, you need the results and don't have the patience. Do you guys have any idea how much your youngsters even make? I bet Lukaku is rich as *bleep* already. Piazon went to Chelsea and snubbed Juve for the money, and we're even stealing from United apparently. Where is this inflated football market going to end?
Flawed logic.

Roman does not tell managers not to play youngsters. But youngsters are not first team players either. Look at all the managers we've had. None of them are known for playing youngsters, which is why our youngsters haven't been getting their chances. Even AVB who was supposed to oversee a "revolution" hardly played youngsters(see Lukaku saying he'll NEVER forgive AVB). That's why I personally want Robbie because he'll play our youngsters.

Now about the Piazon and Juve issue, you REALLY think he joined Chelsea for money? Don't kid yourself. At the time he signed for us, we were ENGLISH CHAMPIONS while Juve were not having their best season. We have a lot of Brazilians and Portugese that could(and actually did) help him settle down like Luiz, Ramires, Alex(back then), Ferreira, etc. Throw in Meireles now. Stop trying to make it look like he made a wrong decision because he didn't go to your club. That's just selfish! He had a great season with our youth and won the FA Youth Cup with them. He also won our Young Player of The Year award. He also said he has learnt a lot since he arrived.

Did you REALLY think he was going to turn down the champions of the Premier League, located in London in favour of an Italian team(albeit Juve) who were still trying to regain their feet in Seria A? For you to think a 17 year old(at the time) had money first on his mind is just delusional.

Get a grip!
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Post by iNFINITY9910 Wed May 30, 2012 6:39 am

Well the best thing to do IMO is integrate them slowly into the first team using bench positions. But our spending policy is seriously hurting them, true.. thats why when we are spending we should make sure that we dont acquire anything more than what we need. Roughly one star player per season if its needed. This season can be excused because we are really rebuilding the squad because with what we have we cant play competitive football at the top of the league. Right now no matter who says what we needed a winger and Hazard is the best choice available. And Hulk is a good choice considering that we will be playing 50+ games per season easily. This gives spaces here and there for young lads, if they get 3-4 match time per season until they reach 20 thats quite enough IMO. The reserves league is not bad either and its competitive enough for youngsters.

Then when they are capable enough 1-2 years of loan years can judge them properly and if they are good enough, get a proper bench position in the team and then challenge the first team player.
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Post by lszanto Wed May 30, 2012 6:55 am

Kinda unsure about it all, I don't believe our youngsters are good enough for first team football but I also don't want them blocking development in 2-3 seasons. I'd like to see the rawer players loaned out, Lukaku etc but I really think they need some sort of confirmation of the club they are going to that they will receive x amount of minutes if fit. So it doesn't turn out like Josh to swansea and do nothing for their development.

After hearing about Hazard and probably Hulk you have to wonder why we bought Marin.
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Post by Blue Barrett Wed May 30, 2012 7:07 am

lszanto wrote:
After hearing about Hazard and probably Hulk you have to wonder why we bought Marin.
Well he wasn't bought to be a regular starter, that's for sure.
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Post by Shed Wed May 30, 2012 7:18 am

Barrettinator wrote:
lszanto wrote:
After hearing about Hazard and probably Hulk you have to wonder why we bought Marin.
Well he wasn't bought to be a regular starter, that's for sure.

Unless he somehow lives up the expectations many had for him a few years ago before he faded a bit. Won't be holding my breath on that one though...
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Post by Blue Barrett Wed May 30, 2012 7:28 am

ShedEnd1905 wrote:
Barrettinator wrote:
lszanto wrote:
After hearing about Hazard and probably Hulk you have to wonder why we bought Marin.
Well he wasn't bought to be a regular starter, that's for sure.

Unless he somehow lives up the expectations many had for him a few years ago before he faded a bit. Won't be holding my breath on that one though...
I'm still neutral on him even now.
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Post by Shed Wed May 30, 2012 7:41 am

In relation to him, as they say, more hope than expectation.

If he can become the great player everyone thought he'd be a little while back, great. If not, he's good for depth. We really can't lose, unless of course he turns out to be complete and utter crap, which is unlikely.
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Post by Kick Wed May 30, 2012 8:33 am

I believe Marin can do well with us, has to be better than FloMo.
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Post by lszanto Wed May 30, 2012 8:39 am

Kick wrote:I believe Marin can do well with us, has to be better than FloMo.

But when will he play with Sturridge, Hazard, De Bruyne and possibly Hulk at the club?
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Post by Kick Wed May 30, 2012 9:36 am

De Bruyne will go on. Loan, Sturridge will be a CF.
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Post by the xcx Wed May 30, 2012 11:30 am

Marin is shet lol, he was brought as a backup. Hes not good with rotation either so his gonna flop.
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Post by Kick Wed May 30, 2012 1:23 pm

Have some Faith Nameless, Marin was poor last season, due to injuries and losing decent players around him, namely Ozil.

With a decent team and some consistancy behind him he could turn out to be a real bargin.
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Post by lszanto Wed May 30, 2012 1:35 pm

It's just a thought but could the signing of Marin have been done more assuming we would not get CL next season?
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Post by iNFINITY9910 Wed May 30, 2012 2:05 pm

Probably lol...
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Post by Kick Wed May 30, 2012 3:10 pm

I think Marin was a signing to add width, creativity and replace Kalou.
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