Bielsa, An overrated Manager or a great tactician?

BarrileteCosmico wrote:For Barca there is no difference between 2nd and 3rd, nothing counts but 1st.

Not true at all lol

A coach can keep his job at Barca if he finish 2nd for a season but finishing third is a instant sack with current squad...

Mr Nick09 wrote:when i talk about experience, i talk about the overall maturity of the team, and of the players in key positions. If you compare both sides, Falcao has a lot of experience and maturity playing in europe, same with Diego, a guy like Gabi in the midfield is not a kid, Godin. Now compare it with the likes of Ander who was playing for Zaragoza last year and still underdeveloped, they have De Marcos in the midfield, no one knew him last year, same with Iturraspe having his break out this year, and Javi in defense.

There is contrast in maturity/experience level between those sides. I think you guys underestimate the effort they made to reach such heights this season, that's why i give them credits. People are quick to make them stars, but i dont think that's the case at all.

you can say that they often go deep in copa, where they lost against Barca, frankly there is no shame to that, United took the same score. But they have never handled a season playing the Europa league so late as well, so the mental duress is quite important.

for every Godin there is an Amoribieta and for every Falcao/Diego there is a Llorente and Susaeta

Luis played for Deportivo before he signed for Pathetico, Adrian the suprise revelation was also playing for Depor(this is the same team that got relegated)

Curtious is a new keeper only 19 years of age, Arda Turan is worse than Altintop and Juanfran was deployed as a RB..... so i mean it goes both ways

Inexperience is just an excuse to deflect blame

They are not stars and have never been, but to go 7 games without scoring and blame that on squad depth and inexperience does not cut it

I talked about key positions in both teams, ie the CBs, the midfield, the AM, and the CF. that to me his the axis of the team.

Amorobieta never matched up to Godin, Susaeta? who was Susaeta last season? he is a winger. Diego might be inconsistent but he is a mature footballer, Ander is not. Iturraspe-De Marco, another very young and immature pairing, compared to Gabi for example, the man was captain zaragoza last year.

Look, my argument is only that their way to handle the mental stress of such season wasnt the same at all. you could see how Bilbao completely looked out of their depth in both finals, mainly because they didnt handle the moment well enough. That's my opinion, it's a factor.

Atletico had won the EL 2 seasons ago, that is absolutely key experience in preparation for another final. For many of AB's players that was their first final, and the players that did play against Barca 3 years ago never won. I completely agree with Nick when he says that the maturity of AB is lower than that of the teams it competed against.

@ Nick, i see what your saying, firstly id gladly trade Amoribieta for Godin, Godin is a hybrid between Lass and Albelda aka he is a red card waiting to happen, the sooner he can be replaced the better

Secondly your second paragraph is why i think Biesla is overhyped, that should be his job, he should be the one "motivating" them and firing them up for finals, i have realised Arq always complaining about him changing formation/starting line up all the time, either he has dementia and doesnt know who is who or he simply doesnt think they are good enough and tries to do an AVB play a way which doesnt suit them

How long did they have to prepare for the Copa final??? two weeks?? and they still played like Rayo Vallecano or something, our b team couldve given Barca a bigger match one that they actually would've had to sweat for

@BC, from that team which won 2 seasons ago only one player survived the rest either left/retired or were relegated to the bench.... they have less experience playing finals than the Bilbao players but they are considerably older so i will buy the they have experience playing tough teams from before argument

Pathetico with this same team were down there with Villarreal before Christmas, Falcao went about 9 games without scoring they got kicked out of Copa by a 3rd division team, so imo sometimes its to do with the coach rather than players

Also id like to point out this being the first time since ages that we have walked into their stadium with no competition whatsoever from them, it was as if we were playing eachother in training or something

I am not taking anythign away from the guy but to ay he is a mastermind or whatever is abit of an overstatement

Bielsa fired them through the finals, there is not much you can ask. I am sure he did the same thing he did all along to prepare them for the finals, but it didnt work. If there is anything we can conclude from the way they handle both finals, it's the fact that they didnt look ready at all. It's possible they just didnt have the mental resources to play those games against two teams that were a lot more ready than they were.

We have enough of a hard time beating Barca with our A side, i doubt our B team could do any better.

As for them reaching the finals just two years ago, it's a fair argument to make. You can argue that the starting eleven has changed, but you cant argue that the overall mentality surrounding the team in general, and the management has.

Bilbao went from a familly club to a team playing the final in Europa League, that's how it looks to me. i believe there is a reason why big clubs in europe are almost always in late stages of cup competitions or up in the league table, they have champions mentality. When new players join Madrid or Barca, they are swept by that kind of winner attitude, because it's a club culture. Atletico might have changed lineup, but they havent changed their mentality about playing those big moments. It makes a world of a difference against a side like Bilbao that do not boast such culture in recent times.

Notice, i am not saying Bielsa made no mistakes, but there are circumstances pertaining to his position that cant be ignored imo. When he took them to the finals, everyone deemed it a success. losing the finals doesnt make his season a failure.

Ive been saying this lately, since whenever i watch them, they simply arent that great. They press but arent always effective and actually make their defense suffer, and their defense arent great. Even going forward, their build up play isnt one of the best at all.... I think the team is decent, and Bielsa also, but probably overrated by quite many...

Bilbao finished 6th in the past couple of seasons dont forget...

They got to 2 finals. Also Bilbao play good football. Against Barca they had a deep defensive line.

To really judge his progress, we have to wait at least one more year.

S32TABLANCA wrote:To really judge his progress, we have to wait at least one more year.

I agree with this guy. If the good ones like Muniain Javi and Herrera stay, de marcos, etc... and they just mature, or improve, or just fix those little kinks they have. From watching them, all the times Ive cringed just because of great build up and plays and just pure awful finishing...theyve got fantastic players and I think if they can get a faster, more clinical forward to play alongside llorente (maybe Ibai?) they will be better. I think Bielsa has only improved them. He has good tactics, just when you play a certain way against his tactics with good attackers...well it all goes to shit. They lost to Atletico mainly because of blunders, and Atletico are great counter attackers

Biesla is Biesla, a second grade manager. He is good for mid table teams but doesnt have what it takes to lead a world class team.

Is he good? Maybe he is the best, who cares? Knowing something and teaching something are two different things. I know professors who are great at resonating /selling idea / class / course and others who have even more knowledge and depth but are simply not good at communicating.

This is Biesla, always will be, 10 years from now, 4 years before. Some people are just meant to be normal.

since when athletic bilbao were a good team? avarage team with avarage players. losing to barcelona doesn't make you an average manager

if bielsa choked in europa league final with squad worth 20-30 million mou choked in cl semi final with squad worth more 300 million. so its bad luck when it comes to top star managers