Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:

izzy wrote:

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:This is getting really stupid man. I am being the better man & I am not taking any shots at you despite the fact you are constantly calling me a lier and what not.

By forum rules new guys are not allowed to post external link for a fixed period of days otherwise I would have posted.

Other than you have made a list of all players we bought in the last 15 years. This is getting ridiculous man. Own up. You can do better than this.


If you want to make a list,why dont you make a list of all players we bought in the last 50 years or so,the list will be FAR LONGER.

And Robben Ribery came in different years for 25 Million each which is our 2nd highest transfer in history apart from the 35 Million Mario Gomez. We have never spend more 100 Million or so in transfers.

And we earn what we spend. I have to repeat myself like the 100th time to you guys to understand this. We spend modestly compared to you & all those are our hard earned money. Not loans or Oil Money

So we don't spend what we earn?

According to you, We took out a loan of 250mill on top of the 400mill we EARNED to spend on transfers?

Yeah................................................

When I am allowed to post links I will do it. 3 years back your revenue was it even 400 Million?? Maybe it was. I will check.

But if you spend 200-250 Million on Transfer you will have to take a debt.

You also posted you made 400 Million profits when you revenue is like 450-480 Million at best & for that to imagine Ronaldo & Kaka would have to play for popcorns. I did even call you out for that.

Anyways when I am allowed to post a link I would. But you made big losses as far I knew. Having said that I can atleast accept Madrid's losses because maybe they can repay them.

But I can accept Oil Mafia putting in 1 Billion in a club. Wages Transfer fees would go out of the window is more Oil Mafia come & start pouring in Billions tomorrow.

Sigh. Not bothering at all.

izzy wrote:

The Messiah wrote:

izzy wrote:

Barrettinator wrote:Joins the forum...

First two posts are about butthurt feelings....

It's being selective and delusional.
Did Bayern ruin the Marseille project?
Or Stuttgart?
Or Schalke?
Or Depor?
Or Bayer Levekusen?

That was in defense to another post, claiming Bayern ruin Hoffeinham project, you must be dump ain't you..?

Yeah, i'm 'dump'

Try harder.

I hope you understand what I did there.

izzy wrote:

kiranr wrote:What is this fascination with spending what we earn? Btw, taking a loan to buy players is not spending beyond your means when you can service the interest.

And what is this thing with German fans about clubs being a toy? It seems like it is a widespread opinion there. They could not be more wrong.

I have no idea.

Hear this logic: Real Madrid who amde over 400mil in profit took out a 250mil loan to make transfers.

Well Izzy, you made 400 million revenue and not profit. But, Madrid is the richest club around. They can easily afford 250 million loan, heck, they can afford a 500 million loan and still have enough money to pay everyone working for the club.

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:

izzy wrote:

kiranr wrote:What is this fascination with spending what we earn? Btw, taking a loan to buy players is not spending beyond your means when you can service the interest.

And what is this thing with German fans about clubs being a toy? It seems like it is a widespread opinion there. They could not be more wrong.

I have no idea.

Here this logic: Real Madrid who amde over 400mil in profit took out a 250mil loan to make transfers.

Again you posted this. I dont think you are 10 man. No disrespect to you but how on earth does a club with 450-480 Million Revenue make a 400 million profit.

Do you have no operational expenses?? Does Ronaldo play for Free?? Does kaka play for a popcorn????

What do you think the club do for the whole financial year? Sit around smoking joints? Of course Ronaldo and Kaka get payed, but the club would have to be in desperate means for them to take out a loan to pay player wages. :lo:

Madrid took the loan to pay for Ronaldo, Kaka and the likes and not for wages. I see nothing wrong with it. It is better and sound business that what Bayern does.

The Messiah wrote:
That brings us back to the point that we bought all those players with money earned by the club and still made profit.


Why do you guys deliberately ignore the vital point in an argument

No, you said Malaga got Villarrel relegated because they bought Cazorla. Makes no sense.

"Earned their money"

Holy shit , some of you sound like fukcing accountants.

butthurt.com ... check it out.

[quote="Sushi Master"]

izzy wrote:

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:Not loans or Oil Money

Dude... stop.

You know what we did when the Allianz was built?

It's a secret that will obliterate your passion as a Bayern fan. A word that if ushered too hard will make the Kaiser use viagra and Gerd Müller change his name to Fernando Torres.

We... we... we got a loan...

I know every details of it. It will get over in january 2016. And we are paying it off. 25-30 Million each year.

So???

We did not take 200 Million for buying players. And even then I said personally I can atleast accept madrid because of their huge REVENUE taking a loan to buy players IF they can pay it back with interest.

But there should be a limit to Loans. As FFP says 45 Million is the maximum loss acceptable. Stadium Debt is excluded. And Stadium Debt does not belong to FC Bayern Munich,we are debt free. The debt belongs to FC Bayern AG which is a registered coroporate whose dept is shown as "INDEPENDENT" of Bayern Munich,the football club.

We are smart.

[quote="Kingofeverythingclassy"]

Sushi Master wrote:

izzy wrote:

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:Not loans or Oil Money

Dude... stop.

You know what we did when the Allianz was built?

It's a secret that will obliterate your passion as a Bayern fan. A word that if ushered too hard will make the Kaiser use viagra and Gerd Müller change his name to Fernando Torres.

We... we... we got a loan...

I know every details of it. It will get over in january 2016. And we are paying it off. 25-30 Million each year.

So???

We did not take 200 Million for buying players. And even then I said personally I can atleast accept madrid because of their huge REVENUE taking a loan to buy players IF they can pay it back with interest.

But there should be a limit to Loans. As FFP says 45 Million is the maximum loss acceptable. Stadium Debt is excluded. And Stadium Debt does not belong to FC Bayern Munich,we are debt free. The debt belongs to FC Bayern AG which is a registered coroporate whose dept is shown as "INDEPENDENT" of Bayern Munich,the football club.

We are smart.

Double Standards at it's best right here.

kiranr wrote:Madrid took the loan to pay for Ronaldo, Kaka and the likes and not for wages. I see nothing wrong with it. It is better and sound business that what Bayern does.

Why is it better? It's actually risky as hell. Ronaldo payed out, yeah, but what does Kaká do nowadays apart from being a money vent? No one buys a Kaká shirt apart from when you need to clean your caca.

There definitely is nothing wrong with it, Madrid can afford it. But to call it "better" ain't really correct. Madrid will be still be making payments long term, Bayern won't for being tighter with their cash. There's also the matter of paying for the Allianz.

To say Madrid need a loan to maintain themselves is hilarious, though. They can easily pay off that shit in a decade or so.

Too bad FFP will never work classy.

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:

izzy wrote:

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:Not loans or Oil Money

Dude... stop.

You know what we did when the Allianz was built?

It's a secret that will obliterate your passion as a Bayern fan. A word that if ushered too hard will make the Kaiser use viagra and Gerd Müller change his name to Fernando Torres.

We... we... we got a loan...

I know every details of it. It will get over in january 2016. And we are paying it off. 25-30 Million each year.

So???

We did not take 200 Million for buying players. And even then I said personally I can atleast accept madrid because of their huge REVENUE taking a loan to buy players IF they can pay it back with interest.

But there should be a limit to Loans. As FFP says 45 Million is the maximum loss acceptable. Stadium Debt is excluded. And Stadium Debt does not belong to FC Bayern Munich,we are debt free. The debt belongs to FC Bayern AG which is a registered coroporate whose dept is shown as "INDEPENDENT" of Bayern Munich,the football club.

We are smart.

In the end it's irrelevant because Madrid are still following FFP. That silly revenue they make does not launch them in the red. They can pay off the huge payments, buy 3 Coentraos and still be making profit.

Yeah, Bayern are not as bombastic and long term might be healthier, but it's not like Madrid can't sleep because of the loan payments.

Sushi Master wrote:

kiranr wrote:Madrid took the loan to pay for Ronaldo, Kaka and the likes and not for wages. I see nothing wrong with it. It is better and sound business that what Bayern does.

Why is it better? It's actually risky as hell. Ronaldo payed out, yeah, but what does Kaká do nowadays apart from being a money vent? No one buys a Kaká shirt apart from when you need to clean your caca.

There definitely is nothing wrong with it, Madrid can afford it. But to call it "better" ain't really correct. Madrid will be still be making payments long term, Bayern won't for being tighter with their cash. There's also the matter of paying for the Allianz.

To say Madrid need a loan to maintain themselves is hilarious, though. They can easily pay off that shit in a decade or so.

They have already paid almost all of it off Sushi. They also bought Alonso, Benzema and few others with that loan. It was a good piece of business. Something Bayern can learn from.

A player contributes to the revenue in multiple ways. Shirt sales is only one of them. And with the fan base Madrid has, they can easily afford such purchases and that is what they did. Bayern can do that same too.

Real Madrid debt spirals to £296m

Real Madrid have announced a net debt of £296m, alongside a record annual budget of £381m for the new season.[i]

The club's annual figures include £226m spent on four players: Xabi Alonso, Kaka, Ronaldo and Karim Benzema. Real's debt last year was around £100m.
Their budget is some £20m greater than that of arch-rivals Barcelona, whose £361m budget is also a club record.
The announcement comes after Uefa approved plans to force clubs to spend only what they can earn in revenue.
Uefa chief Michel Platini has long urged measures to ensure clubs live within their means and those plans, to be introduced from the start of the 2012/13 season, have the approval of the European Club Association, which represents Europe's clubs.


Uefa believes the inflated transfer fees and wages which make up football's current "volatile" economic model cannot be sustained.
Debts in the hundreds of millions of pounds, such as the figure announced by Real, are considered a prime example of the problem.
With that in mind, Real president Florentino Perez told the club's general assembly that its debts would be cut by just over £180m by June 2010, thanks to a 14% increase in revenue on last season.
"We're going through a delicate moment with the world financial crisis but we had to make a big effort for the new arrivals of players, which explains the debt," Perez said.
At last year's general assembly, the club had outlined similar plans for a £70m reduction in debt.
Perez revealed the club's wage bill represented 45% of its expenditure, and announced modernisation projects for the Santiago Bernabeu stadium as well as a theme park in Madrid.
All items voted on at the assembly were passed, including the ratification of credit arrangements with two banks, Caja Madrid and Banco de Santander.
On a separate note, Perez admitted to those present that he "had not made the right decision" when quitting the presidency in 2006, only to regain control earlier this year.
Real's opponents on the same day as the assembly were Xerez, a club lying bottom of the table with an annual budget of just £8m - less than the salaries of Ronaldo or Kaka.





If You talk about Madrid revenue, how about their expenditure...?


Does revenue amount to profit..........?


Revenue is the money coming in (from sales or whatever), profit is what is left after all expenses have been paid.


I am sure Madrid spend a lot in expenses



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8265563.stm

[quote="izzy"]

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

izzy wrote:

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:Not loans or Oil Money

Dude... stop.

You know what we did when the Allianz was built?

It's a secret that will obliterate your passion as a Bayern fan. A word that if ushered too hard will make the Kaiser use viagra and Gerd Müller change his name to Fernando Torres.

We... we... we got a loan...

I know every details of it. It will get over in january 2016. And we are paying it off. 25-30 Million each year.

So???

We did not take 200 Million for buying players. And even then I said personally I can atleast accept madrid because of their huge REVENUE taking a loan to buy players IF they can pay it back with interest.

But there should be a limit to Loans. As FFP says 45 Million is the maximum loss acceptable. Stadium Debt is excluded. And Stadium Debt does not belong to FC Bayern Munich,we are debt free. The debt belongs to FC Bayern AG which is a registered coroporate whose dept is shown as "INDEPENDENT" of Bayern Munich,the football club.

We are smart.

Double Standards at it's best right here.

How on earth?? We are paying 25-30 Million each year. We are not taking the loan to buy players. Our old stadium was unfit to use anymore. What do we do,play on the streets??

We build a State of the Art stadium with our money. It was supposed to be paid off in 2026 & then 2020. We even bought 1860 Munich's shared because they could not pay anymore. We made Multiple payments ahead of time & now the stadium will be paid 2016 instead of much later.

That is something to take pride in. And if we want we can take a 200 Million Loan. But we dont. And its hillarious to hear about a 400 Million profit with 450 Million Revenue. I get the image of C. Ronaldo playing for popcorns & Madrid players travelling in Local Trains.

http://post.jagran.com/Real-Madrid-to-announce-record-earnings-for-last-season-1316267935

[quote="Kingofeverythingclassy"]

izzy wrote:

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

izzy wrote:

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:Not loans or Oil Money

Dude... stop.

You know what we did when the Allianz was built?

It's a secret that will obliterate your passion as a Bayern fan. A word that if ushered too hard will make the Kaiser use viagra and Gerd Müller change his name to Fernando Torres.

We... we... we got a loan...

I know every details of it. It will get over in january 2016. And we are paying it off. 25-30 Million each year.

So???

We did not take 200 Million for buying players. And even then I said personally I can atleast accept madrid because of their huge REVENUE taking a loan to buy players IF they can pay it back with interest.

But there should be a limit to Loans. As FFP says 45 Million is the maximum loss acceptable. Stadium Debt is excluded. And Stadium Debt does not belong to FC Bayern Munich,we are debt free. The debt belongs to FC Bayern AG which is a registered coroporate whose dept is shown as "INDEPENDENT" of Bayern Munich,the football club.

We are smart.

Double Standards at it's best right here.

How on earth?? We are paying 25-30 Million each year. We are not taking the loan to buy players. Our old stadium was unfit to use anymore. What do we do,play on the streets??

We build a State of the Art stadium with our money. It was supposed to be paid off in 2026 & then 2020. We even bought 1860 Munich's shared because they could not pay anymore. We made Multiple payments ahead of time & now the stadium will be paid 2016 instead of much later.

That is something to take pride in. And if we want we can take a 200 Million Loan. But we dont. And its hillarious to hear about a 400 Million profit with 450 Million Revenue. I get the image of C. Ronaldo playing for popcorns & Madrid players travelling in Local Trains.

It's a double standard because your lambasting teams for taking out loans for players but are sweeping aside the fact that YOUR OWN CLUB took out a loan for its stadium.

Players, Stadium or whatever, Bayern took out a loan. End of story.

Johan Cruyff: Bayern Munich are an example to follow.


Ajax legend Johan Cruyff has taken the time to praise the organisation at Bayern Munich, and feels the German giants are an example to follow for the reigning Eredivisie champions

to help the side back to the European, and the former Barcelona star is of the opinion that an organisation similar to the one at FCB will help the club back on track.

"In my opinion, Bayern Munich represent everything a club should be about. I'd like to see something similar at Ajax," Cruyff wrote in his weekly column in De Telegraaf.

"What Bayern have with [Uli] Hoeness and [Karl-Heinz] Rummenigge, we want to reproduce with [Dennis] Bergkamp and [Wim] Jonk.

"These guys have all enjoyed plenty of success during their active careers and have done pretty well financially, too. They don't have to work for Bayern or Ajax for the money, but do it because they love their club."

Debt is money owed to organizations.

It doesn't affect profit as much as you'd like to believe, profit is simile Revenue-Expenses.

Our expenses aren't reflected by debt because we have stable loan plans in place to pay off the debt.

What is counted in this case is the annual amount expected to be repaid from loans, which is much less than the gross figure you are quoting.

kiranr wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

kiranr wrote:Madrid took the loan to pay for Ronaldo, Kaka and the likes and not for wages. I see nothing wrong with it. It is better and sound business that what Bayern does.

Why is it better? It's actually risky as hell. Ronaldo payed out, yeah, but what does Kaká do nowadays apart from being a money vent? No one buys a Kaká shirt apart from when you need to clean your caca.

There definitely is nothing wrong with it, Madrid can afford it. But to call it "better" ain't really correct. Madrid will be still be making payments long term, Bayern won't for being tighter with their cash. There's also the matter of paying for the Allianz.

To say Madrid need a loan to maintain themselves is hilarious, though. They can easily pay off that shit in a decade or so.

They have already paid almost all of it off Sushi. They also bought Alonso, Benzema and few others with that loan. It was a good piece of business. Something Bayern can learn from.

A player contributes to the revenue in multiple ways. Shirt sales is only one of them. And with the fan base Madrid has, they can easily afford such purchases and that is what they did. Bayern can do that same too.

Dude, you're talking like if Bayern bought only garage sale players and played in dirt fields.

Bayern don't need to buy players of that calibre because there's no need for them. The youth academy has done it's work and pretty much cemented the first XI, with even a few bench players included. A few more depth buys and the team is set.

Bayern can totally afford big buys. They just don't need any right now. Hell, just last season Neuer was bought. That Bayern don't spend 100m on a player doesn't mean they don't have money... because there is. The stadium is payed off in 2016 and you can and will see City/Madrid type purchases for guys they really want.

Bayern don't have anything to learn from Madrid, and Madrid don't have anything to learn from Bayern (except maybe to use your academy more ).

Spoiler:

Bayern Munich?

Everyone should follow the Manchester City model .

Do Bayern fans believe people actually give a shit about their club's model?

animal.crackers wrote:Too bad FFP will never work classy.

I believe it has already started working. Inter Milan Machester are cutting their losses(in MU's case they did not make losses) & are decreasing their wage budget & buying efficiently.

Even Barca & Madrid are not spending rashly. I think everyone or most of the big clubs are firmly behind FFP as without FFP club football has no future. Even Chelsea and City are forced to cap their transfer budget at 50-60 Million pounds odd.

Otherwise you guys would probably be spending 200 Million pounds of transfers.

FFP is probably the only reason why yoy did not buy a VERY expensive guy in the winter transfer window despite Mancini crying for a transfer every day.

I think FFP will come in. Maybe their will be more shady stadium deals but you cant POST 200 Million losses anymore. You cant. It will have to come down to a reasonable 20-40 million odd.

FFP will grab City by the balls.

They remind me so much of many Arsenal fans.

animal.crackers wrote:Bayern Munich?

Everyone should follow the Manchester City model .

What's your problem? Not everyone is going to have your luck.

If you're tight on cash but are a half decent club it's not a bad model to follow.

Kingofeverythingclassy wrote:

animal.crackers wrote:Too bad FFP will never work classy.

I believe it has already started working. Inter Milan Machester are cutting their losses(in MU's case they did not make losses) & are decreasing their wage budget & buying efficiently.

Even Barca & Madrid are not spending rashly. I think everyone or most of the big clubs are firmly behind FFP as without FFP club football has no future. Even Chelsea and City are forced to cap their transfer budget at 50-60 Million pounds odd.

Otherwise you guys would probably be spending 200 Million pounds of transfers.

FFP is probably the only reason why yoy did not buy a VERY expensive guy in the winter transfer window despite Mancini crying for a transfer every day.

I think FFP will come in. Maybe their will be more shady stadium deals but you cant POST 200 Million losses anymore. You cant. It will have to come down to a reasonable 20-40 million odd.

FFP will grab City by the balls.

LOL Y so mad?