I do not understand the 3-4-3

i dont typically make threads, definitely not outside the madrid section but i need to ask this question with the upmost respect.

the adage "if its not broken dont fix it" comes to mind when i phrased these questions in my mind. anyways here are my questions:

Why was the 3-4-3 used in el clasico? particularly with the 3 being puyol--masch--adriano

adriano is definitely a more attacking oriented player imo, was this the right move to have him part of the defensive 3?

do you think the puyol v ronaldo matchup was appropriate when danni alves has proven time and time (i can go on for ever) that he has fully dominated ronaldo in 1v1 situations?

and what changes would you have made defensively?

I find it somewhat frustrating that you asking us why we played a certain way, especially since you are Madrid fan. I'd rather a cule ask the question tbh.

Anyway, nobody really knows what goes on in Pep's head. Maybe he is tired of the 4-3-3 and wanted to be adventurous against Madrid for once. I think it could have worked too, if we had not finished so terribly. We dominated possession and created chances. Madrid did not do that much for most of the game, except at the end when we clearly lost it.

The 3-4-3 imo is an attempt to integrate Cesc into the starting 11. This makes it even more startling since Cesc did not even start. I am not a heavy critic(unlike other cules) of this formation since it gives us some sort of variation to our usual 4-3-3-- something which I thought we needed for a long time. I personally think that if we get used to the 3-4-3 that it can make us better as a side, but sacrifices may have to be made. Iniesta for one, will be wasted on the wing. Alves moving up will leave holes in the defence which he used to cover.

Playing this formation, while it is the epitome of offensive tactics, has a major weakness with teams who play more than two forwards. Coaches will easily be able to counter the 3-4-3 if they are smart enough

I just think Mou got his tactics pretty spot on this time. Though I would probably be saying a completely different thing if Xavi and Tello took their chances

Surprised if we HAD to use it, that Pique wasn't used instead of Adriano

we should use 4-3-3

windkick wrote:Surprised if we HAD to use it, that Pique wasn't used instead of Adriano

we should use 4-3-3

yes this is one of my questions.. why was pique not preferred to adriano?

even though di maria was largely ineffective, a 3 man defense of adriano--masch--puyol seems too attacking on paper.

the 4-3-3 has worked flawlessly against madrid for the most part the past 3-4 seasons why experiment in this critical game?

and @shingami i meant no disrespect. and to comment on one of your points a 3-4-3 makes sense if cesc starts, but alves? is this typical? -he did well imo but it just seems counter productive to pack the midfield and have a RM and a RW (thats what it looked like to me)

Alves was more in the midfield than forward. Anyway we had Tello and Inestia on the wings. 4 forwards?? Against Madrid?? Don't really think Pep though Madrid's defense was going to be that defensive. 3-4-3 against Madrid... Its simple. Pep thought Madrid were going to defend and well he got it wrong though he could have shifted Alves to right back with Xavi and Thiago controlling the mid. It wasn't a wise decision and well this formation and tactics shouldn't really be used against strong teams like Madrid unless you are 100% sure that they will park the bus...

It wasn't a tactical mistake. We weren't great, but again we could have won this game easily. Don't get me wrong, the win shows Madrid deservedly won the league. However, if we won today we would have no doubt deserved it. We created chances too, we were just bad at finishing again. Tello and Xavi... the chances weren't difficult.

Adriano wasn't a bad selection either. Playing on the side. He's pacy, which is needed in a back 3. He's done it before and I don't blame him for our loss.

I don't either. He has played recently decent games for us both offensively and especially defensively in the 3-4-3 formation. Tello really had two of the most easiest opportunities that he really should have taken. Xavi's first one was also easy as well

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Yeah, we are misfiring terribly and we are paying for it. I think this is just a phase and is bound to happen to any team considering the amount of matches we have played over the past 3 years.

These guys deserve to be excused for being out of form.

I dont agree. I dont agree with, if its not broken, dont fix it and I dont agree 343 was a problem.

I think we would like to use that as an excuse, but in yesturdays game it wasnt a problem at all.

The Franchise wrote:I dont agree. I dont agree with, if its not broken, dont fix it and I dont agree 343 was a problem.

I think we would like to use that as an excuse, but in yesturdays game it wasnt a problem at all.

dani, the first comment shows you and Pep would get along very well but truth be told he has overdone that this season.

Secondly, are you saying you don't think it was a mistake to play D.Alves as right forward/winger instead of using a conventional one like Pedro?

This season, yes I agree, but last night I dont think so.

The only aspect of the formation I didnt like was the players chosen for it and Dani Alves as a forward type.

But the formation itself, wasnt a problem.

If Pique wasnt going to play, Dani should have been at the back (not Adriano) and Pedro should have started.

Pedro has let Pep down the whole season with his play...Pep wont ever say it, but its true. Because of that, im sure he didnt want to go with him....but I think he should have.

i didnt mean to assert that 3-4-3 was the problem, i meant to ask why was it used, why was alves (or pique) not part of the defensive trio, and what would you have done differently?

what i understand from some of the posts- 343 is used against park the bus teams, which i think madrid did for most if not all of the game, but because of lack of form, lack of finishing chances, and not having the right combination of players on the field led to a drop in play.

correct me if im not getting this right.

Well Pique didnt play probably because he has been injured and didnt play for 4 games straight.

Personally I dont think 343 is for park the bus teams, its just a different way of playing which gives us a different approach both offensively and defensively

Yes but over and over again it has failed us. I think its time we switch back to 4-3-3. Teams like to park the bus and counter us...having only 3 guys back with a few of them running forward to help the attack seriously leaves us at disadvantages for counters

3-4-3 is idiotic system, shame that Pep didn't bury it. He is too stubborn. I don't like 3 at the back and also I am irritated with playing without centre forward. Fake 9, Fake 10, etc too much fake positions, Valdes - the fake keeper ffs Time to return to 4-3-3 in next season with Villa as CF, Messi RW and without Alves in the forward line.

I dont agree,the 3-4-3 was clearly not the problem yesterday,The forwards were.

shinigami99 wrote:I find it somewhat frustrating that you asking us why we played a certain way, especially since you are Madrid fan. I'd rather a cule ask the question tbh.

You don't like it when we ask you questions in a polite and non-trolling way?

Obviously the players are more comfortable with the 4-3-3. Dani Alves ought to have started in defense and either Alexis or Cuenca starting on the right of attack. Thiago should certainly not have played and it still beats me how Pep put Fabregas on the bench. Even though Fab has failed to score of recent, his playmaking abilities are unparalled and this allows Messi to stick to his attacking role instead of dropping deep too often. Tello is definitely one to watch out for next season, but for nw he is best utilized as an impact sub.

Fabregas is not as suited to the 4-3-3 tactic as well as in the 3-4-3... Fabregas needed the rest and well his performances of late have been less than average. He needs learn more, practise more, find more confidence and then find success on the field.

matpol wrote:3-4-3 is idiotic system, shame that Pep didn't bury it. He is too stubborn. I don't like 3 at the back and also I am irritated with playing without centre forward. Fake 9, Fake 10, etc too much fake positions, Valdes - the fake keeper ffs Time to return to 4-3-3 in next season with Villa as CF, Messi RW and without Alves in the forward line.

Its not an idiotic system.Its the Dream Team formation,the Johan Cruyff formation and we won our first ever European Cup playing it.
Personally when played right for me there is no greater sight in football.
The problem this season playing the formation has been the debilitating injuries we have had.
Villa,Afellay,Abidal and Fontas with season ending injuries.Many others out for long periods.
I am confident that with a more fit squad we would have been far more successful with it.

The Franchise wrote:This season, yes I agree, but last night I dont think so.

The only aspect of the formation I didnt like was the players chosen for it and Dani Alves as a forward type.

But the formation itself, wasnt a problem.

If Pique wasnt going to play, Dani should have been at the back (not Adriano) and Pedro should have started.

Pedro has let Pep down the whole season with his play...Pep wont ever say it, but its true. Because of that, im sure he didnt want to go with him....but I think he should have.

Indeed if you change some of the personnel then it starts to make much more sense. At the cost of repeating myself having Tello and D.Alves as our two winger/forwards meant starting on the back foot right from the go. That's why some people are saying Pep's priority was Tuesday and he didn't want to play anyone in any way that could be detrimental to our chances on Tuesday.

alexjanosik wrote:[
Its not an idiotic system.Its the Dream Team formation,the Johan Cruyff formation and we won our first ever European Cup playing it.
Personally when played right for me there is no greater sight in football.
The problem this season playing the formation has been the debilitating injuries we have had.
Villa,Afellay,Abidal and Fontas with season ending injuries.Many others out for long periods.
I am confident that with a more fit squad we would have been far more successful with it.

Well said. Even in the 3-4-3, how many matches in this season have we played with 3 forwards? Instead we have played players as forwards who hardly suit that role. It's largely due to injuries it seems. So when all are fit I hope to see 3 proper forwards played in every single match.

Well possibly.

I mean, if Alexis was fit to play any part of the game then he probably could have started.

Also Pique and Pedro, both I bet start vs Chelsea, might have started if he really wanted to go for it.

Just to answer the question, probably simple actually, Real only needed a draw and as well as evolving the team, vs so many teams countering us now better and better as time goes, Pep wants to reduce 1 defender in order to have 1 more midfielder or attacker. I think its been evident that having Abidal for this would have been much better as hes great for such a formation, perfectly balanced for the LB coving the CB position....not to mention we miss his physical power and height...

Good game tonight without his farcial 3-4-3. 4-3-3 rocks.