Re: A (neutral) article about that penalty call at the Barça X AC Milan match.

by rsinatra Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:27 pm

Seppuku wrote:"Interesting" is a highly subjective word.

well i am talking about myself, so..

by rsinatra Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:28 pm

harhar11 wrote:
Seppuku wrote:
Yuri Yukuv wrote:This isnt an article or is it neutral, it was a reasonable penalty. The most fluky thing about that match was milans goal.

No on all accounts.

And Milans goal was actually quiet nice, better than anything Farca could muster over two legs.

Maybe the goals that we scored but not some of the chances that we made. Lets be honest here, that messi chance after the one-touch pass by fabregas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milans goal

And this play aswell

no one is disputing the fact that barcelona were superior (are they???? :S). we're talking about goals, and milan goal was better lol that's okay you know? messi & co have a thousand others that are much better...

by harhar11 Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:32 pm

rsinatra wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
Seppuku wrote:
Yuri Yukuv wrote:This isnt an article or is it neutral, it was a reasonable penalty. The most fluky thing about that match was milans goal.

No on all accounts.

And Milans goal was actually quiet nice, better than anything Farca could muster over two legs.

Maybe the goals that we scored but not some of the chances that we made. Lets be honest here, that messi chance after the one-touch pass by fabregas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milans goal

And this play aswell

no one is disputing the fact that barcelona were superior (are they???? :S). we're talking about goals, and milan goal was better lol that's okay you know? messi & co have a thousand others that are much better...

He said that milans goal was better than anything "farca(and they criticize me when I call them real mierda or di maria - dive maria) could muster throughout both legs". So I mention that he is right if we are talking just about the goals, but if we are talking about some of the plays that barca did then he is sooooooo wrong..

So my intentional was not to dispute that you guys have admitted that barca played better...

by stevieg8 Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:52 pm

harhar11 wrote:
stevieg8 wrote:
harhar11 wrote:Then what you should do rsinatra is criticize the REF who dont follow the rule..
A foul is a foul even if its inside the penalty area..

I have said it before and I will say it again, first time ever that I see the ref get criticize for FOLLOWING the rules

Actually, we see it all the time. I'm not sure why Barca fans keep saying this. When a soft penalty is given, that's EXACTLY what's happening. That's why we call it soft, not wrong. This was an example of one of the softest penalties any of us neutrals have seen, and hence, we're talking about it as such.

And to ALL Barca fans looking at this thread - people would give you guys substantially less flack for these sorts of things if there were EVER an example of ANY of the fans saying "you're right, we got lucky this time." I've seen fans from every single club on this forum do that, including Madrid within the last month for a game in which they had a penalty given and one against them not, both wrong calls, and they came out and repeatedly said "yeah, we got lucky this time, happy we were able to come away with that." Never have I once seen a Barca fan do this; instead they post lol.com articles about how "if every single favorable decision made for Madrid was reversed, and every single unfavorable call made against Barca is reversed, but we don't analyze any of the calls going in the opposite direction, Barca would be in first" which fail to provide any meaningful analysis. Seriously guys, just say that the ref was wrong, that it happens sometimes, and that you can accept that, and everyone here will stop hating you as much.

Thats because in most of the controversial games i.e chelsea, arsenal, real madrid, inter and milan we have had just as many decision against us. The only team that can really complain is chelsea but even then, barca should have been 3-0 up if it wasnt for the ref if you belive that messi/eto'o would have scored those 2 penalties and eto'o the wrongly given offside call..

And while we are at the supporters admitting that they got lucky, why didn't arsenal say that they got lucky that messi got a goal wrongly disallowed or we were denied 3 penalties throught the tie? why didnt milan admitt it in the first leg?(IIRC they said that we should stop crying)

and it wasn't a soft penalty it was a cheap one. Nesta was holding Busquets shirt WITH BOTH OF HIS HANDS! The RULEBOOK state that its a foul and if inside penalty area = penalty. I dont care if the other refs are incapable to follow the rulebook.

I don't think I'm so terrible for not criticizing the losing teams for failing to say "we were lucky and lost anyway." No fan thinks like that. What I HAVE seen Arsenal/Milan/Chelsea/Madrid (and many other teams) fans do is admit after wins that they were benefited by luck/refereeing. Everyone knows bad decisions happen, and winning teams often benefit from mistakes. I think the claims that Barca is match-fixing or that UEFA is intentionally doing this are ludicrous, but to respond with "we are as unlucky as any other team and this was not a wrong decision" EVERY SINGLE TIME a controversy occurs seems extreme to me. I repeat, I have yet to see a Barca fan say "you know what, you're right. The ref was wrong in that case, and although I think we still would've won, I can admit that it changed the flow of the game and had an affect, and the decision was poor." That's all I'm asking for, and I would greatly respect it if I were to see it happen. And yet I'm still not hearing any Barca fans point to an instance when that was said.

@kiranr: that last line was for you. if you want to do what i asked for in EITHER post, go for it. instead you're just giving empty statements that fail to respond to the criticism i'm levelling, and that just makes me feel i'm even more right. if you can quote me a post where ANY barca fan said what i'm talking about, do it. if you can tell me of an incident when consensus (or at least a popular enough opinion that it makes sense in context) in the barca community was "we got lucky," then do that. I don't think i'm asking for that much, and if my claim is such a "generalization" that lacks observational skills, PROVE ME WRONG.

by Brady2Moss Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:45 pm

harhar11 wrote:
Maybe the goals that we scored but not some of the chances that we made. Lets be honest here, that messi chance after the one-touch pass by fabregas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milans goal

And this play aswell

Why did Sanchez do that stupid back-heel to Xavi when he was in a better position to score? Still amazes me how a player at that level cannot shoot with their weaker foot, even at that range?

Mind=blown.

by steve_smith Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:13 am

stevieg8 wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
stevieg8 wrote:
harhar11 wrote:Then what you should do rsinatra is criticize the REF who dont follow the rule..
A foul is a foul even if its inside the penalty area..

I have said it before and I will say it again, first time ever that I see the ref get criticize for FOLLOWING the rules

Actually, we see it all the time. I'm not sure why Barca fans keep saying this. When a soft penalty is given, that's EXACTLY what's happening. That's why we call it soft, not wrong. This was an example of one of the softest penalties any of us neutrals have seen, and hence, we're talking about it as such.

And to ALL Barca fans looking at this thread - people would give you guys substantially less flack for these sorts of things if there were EVER an example of ANY of the fans saying "you're right, we got lucky this time." I've seen fans from every single club on this forum do that, including Madrid within the last month for a game in which they had a penalty given and one against them not, both wrong calls, and they came out and repeatedly said "yeah, we got lucky this time, happy we were able to come away with that." Never have I once seen a Barca fan do this; instead they post lol.com articles about how "if every single favorable decision made for Madrid was reversed, and every single unfavorable call made against Barca is reversed, but we don't analyze any of the calls going in the opposite direction, Barca would be in first" which fail to provide any meaningful analysis. Seriously guys, just say that the ref was wrong, that it happens sometimes, and that you can accept that, and everyone here will stop hating you as much.

Thats because in most of the controversial games i.e chelsea, arsenal, real madrid, inter and milan we have had just as many decision against us. The only team that can really complain is chelsea but even then, barca should have been 3-0 up if it wasnt for the ref if you belive that messi/eto'o would have scored those 2 penalties and eto'o the wrongly given offside call..

And while we are at the supporters admitting that they got lucky, why didn't arsenal say that they got lucky that messi got a goal wrongly disallowed or we were denied 3 penalties throught the tie? why didnt milan admitt it in the first leg?(IIRC they said that we should stop crying)

and it wasn't a soft penalty it was a cheap one. Nesta was holding Busquets shirt WITH BOTH OF HIS HANDS! The RULEBOOK state that its a foul and if inside penalty area = penalty. I dont care if the other refs are incapable to follow the rulebook.

I don't think I'm so terrible for not criticizing the losing teams for failing to say "we were lucky and lost anyway." No fan thinks like that. What I HAVE seen Arsenal/Milan/Chelsea/Madrid (and many other teams) fans do is admit after wins that they were benefited by luck/refereeing. Everyone knows bad decisions happen, and winning teams often benefit from mistakes. I think the claims that Barca is match-fixing or that UEFA is intentionally doing this are ludicrous, but to respond with "we are as unlucky as any other team and this was not a wrong decision" EVERY SINGLE TIME a controversy occurs seems extreme to me. I repeat, I have yet to see a Barca fan say "you know what, you're right. The ref was wrong in that case, and although I think we still would've won, I can admit that it changed the flow of the game and had an affect, and the decision was poor." That's all I'm asking for, and I would greatly respect it if I were to see it happen. And yet I'm still not hearing any Barca fans point to an instance when that was said.

@kiranr: that last line was for you. if you want to do what i asked for in EITHER post, go for it. instead you're just giving empty statements that fail to respond to the criticism i'm levelling, and that just makes me feel i'm even more right. if you can quote me a post where ANY barca fan said what i'm talking about, do it. if you can tell me of an incident when consensus (or at least a popular enough opinion that it makes sense in context) in the barca community was "we got lucky," then do that. I don't think i'm asking for that much, and if my claim is such a "generalization" that lacks observational skills, PROVE ME WRONG.

This is a great point.

Barcelona is a great team............. but to their fans they are perfect. So they will never admit that calls go their way (every year) because it doesn't fit with their perception that Barcelona would win every match by 3+ goals.

Still to this day, I haven't heard one Barcelona fan say Inter were better than them 2 years ago. NOT ONE. Instead, I've heard a range of excuses.......anything from Inter playing anti-football to a volcanoe exploded making Barca players out-of-form in Milan. LOL. You can't make this shyte up.

by Jeps33178 Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:44 am

Here's the thing about Barcelona, they're an amazing team. A cheating team, but amazing nonetheless

No one questions their position as best team in the world, but I just want them to win something without the help of the referees. Every single year since the beginning of Guardiola's era, Barcelona have had numerous controversial calls go their way.

It isn't alarming when someone gets a controversial call go their way, because that happens to any and every team. But when you have call after call, after call, after call go your way, it can't be "chance". I'm convinced that Barcelona get help from UEFA and I wish someone would investigate this.

Also, to Billionmillion: A (neutral) article about that penalty call at the Barça X AC Milan match. - Page 3 1625187496

A (neutral) article about that penalty call at the Barça X AC Milan match. - Page 3 1625187496

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:39 am

It was only a week ago that we were discussing a penalty that Madrid was awarded against Villareal because of shirt pulling and that "never happens". I think it was a very harsh penalty, and it probably didn't deserve to be one (stopping the play is the norm), but at the same time it's in the rulebook. I can see how Milan fans would feel hard done, but how is that penalty Barca's fault? Did we dive to get it? No, we didn't. Consequently, I feel like the anger of Milan fans and people hoping to see Barcelona not go through should be directed at the referee and not at our institution.

I don't think the penalty was decisive, and neither do some Milan players (as Seedorf recently stated himself). If Milan were good enough, they would be better than the refs (which, over the 2 legs, gave them a harsh penalty and did not award a pretty clear one against them, in my book that is even). Instead, they only scored once in 180 minutes. Milan didn't go through because they failed to convert their chances. I'm sorry to Milan fans they had to go out that way, I wouldn't like it myself, but had they been the better team they would have gone through.

by kiranr Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:58 am

@ Stevie

I have already said many times in different threads that the penalty should not have been awarded. Billy_gr has said it too.

But i do think that this call evens things up in the context of our season and the two legs over which we played Milan where we could have gotten other calls our way but did not.

by steve_smith Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:50 am

kiranr wrote:
@ Stevie

I have already said many times in different threads that the penalty should not have been awarded. Billy_gr has said it too.

This Good!

But i do think that this call evens things up in the context of our season and the two legs over which we played Milan where we could have gotten other calls our way but did not.

AHHHH! You just ruined it

by stevieg8 Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:12 am

steve_smith wrote:
kiranr wrote:
@ Stevie

I have already said many times in different threads that the penalty should not have been awarded. Billy_gr has said it too.

This Good!

But i do think that this call evens things up in the context of our season and the two legs over which we played Milan where we could have gotten other calls our way but did not.

AHHHH! You just ruined it

by ToEy Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:31 am

stevieg8 wrote:
kiranr wrote:
stevieg8 wrote:
Actually, we see it all the time. I'm not sure why Barca fans keep saying this. When a soft penalty is given, that's EXACTLY what's happening. That's why we call it soft, not wrong. This was an example of one of the softest penalties any of us neutrals have seen, and hence, we're talking about it as such.

And to ALL Barca fans looking at this thread - people would give you guys substantially less flack for these sorts of things if there were EVER an example of ANY of the fans saying "you're right, we got lucky this time." I've seen fans from every single club on this forum do that, including Madrid within the last month for a game in which they had a penalty given and one against them not, both wrong calls, and they came out and repeatedly said "yeah, we got lucky this time, happy we were able to come away with that." Never have I once seen a Barca fan do this; instead they post lol.com articles about how "if every single favorable decision made for Madrid was reversed, and every single unfavorable call made against Barca is reversed, but we don't analyze any of the calls going in the opposite direction, Barca would be in first" which fail to provide any meaningful analysis. Seriously guys, just say that the ref was wrong, that it happens sometimes, and that you can accept that, and everyone here will stop hating you as much.

Love your observation skills and your generalization.

Love your response and debate tactics. Please, kind sir, lead us blind ignorant people and do quote me an instance on this forum - or just remind me of the incident, you don't even have to search the forum - where the majority of barca fans we're willing to admit they got lucky and the call in theyre favor was wrong. Please, point me in that direction, I'm too stupid on my own.

I think you think that we are blind ignorant people to not notice the way you shift your goal post Very Happy

Its not hard to see that you are a hater lmao

by ToEy Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:48 am

Jeps33178 wrote:Here's the thing about Barcelona, they're an amazing team. A cheating team, but amazing nonetheless

No one questions their position as best team in the world, but I just want them to win something without the help of the referees. Every single year since the beginning of Guardiola's era, Barcelona have had numerous controversial calls go their way.

It isn't alarming when someone gets a controversial call go their way, because that happens to any and every team. But when you have call after call, after call, after call go your way, it can't be "chance". I'm convinced that Barcelona get help from UEFA and I wish someone would investigate this.

Also, to Billionmillion:

You know, in response to people of your beliefs that Barca has decisions their way all the while, with none against them....I have already mentioned this argument many many times but strangely no one has challenged me

1) Adibal's red card against Chelsea with CLEAR no contact
2) Henry got pulled down in the box (not corner) in 1st leg against Chelsea, no penalty
3) Ballack's handball (2nd leg) similar to one of the Chelsea's claims, no penalty
4) Milito's offside goal (Inter 1st leg)
5) Messi disallowed goal against Arsenal (1st leg last UCL)
6) Rooney's equaliser in last UCL's FINAL (Giggs the provider was offside)
7) Adebayor's double clothsline + Aberloa's stamp on Pedro (nothing given)

So were these not decisions against? If not what are these? Justice for football? Comeon, people like you with such conviction that Barca received help from Uefa ought to explain to me what are ALL THESE decisions?

by billy_gr Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:54 am

OMG Internet Forums!!!!!
Gotta love em…

Point 1: I would not award this penalty even if my brother and 5 cousins played in Barca (or whatever team). There’s the rule and there’s phucking common practice. Simple as that - case closed
Point 2: Barca are cheats? It must be your period obviously? Other than the ref’s retardness, how did Barca cheat to win anything in this game?
Point 3: Taking into account point 1 one has to love how only pro Barca decisions are being discussed to death in this forum. In an imaginary scenario where in the first leg Robinho loses control in the box, Valdes takes him down and no penalty is given, the admins of this forum would have to work overtime.
Point 4: Awarding a non existing penalty to your oponent when you had just equilized is the worst kind of demotivation a team can get and I can totally understand any case made for Milan, however I was expecting some more fighting spirit, as there was so much time in the game (if they hadn’t conceeded Iniesta’s goal the game was still open)

by ToEy Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:54 am

My thoughts on this penalty is simple, it is a soft penalty. What I dont get is, why are people so hard on the ref or Barca when it is clearly Milan's fault and they were unlucky.

Anology : Clubs and pubs here always have fights, prob the same everywhere else. Most of the time, these fights will just be forgotten. Even when the police are there, the offender will just be let off with a warning, if the victim does not want to charge them in court. However, in rare instances, the policeman might be more strict and arrest the offender.

Now tell me, in those rare instance, who is at fault? The victim? The policeman? Or the offender?

by rsinatra Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:21 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:It was only a week ago that we were discussing a penalty that Madrid was awarded against Villareal because of shirt pulling and that "never happens". I think it was a very harsh penalty, and it probably didn't deserve to be one (stopping the play is the norm), but at the same time it's in the rulebook. I can see how Milan fans would feel hard done, but how is that penalty Barca's fault? Did we dive to get it? No, we didn't. Consequently, I feel like the anger of Milan fans and people hoping to see Barcelona not go through should be directed at the referee and not at our institution.

I don't think the penalty was decisive, and neither do some Milan players (as Seedorf recently stated himself). If Milan were good enough, they would be better than the refs (which, over the 2 legs, gave them a harsh penalty and did not award a pretty clear one against them, in my book that is even). Instead, they only scored once in 180 minutes. Milan didn't go through because they failed to convert their chances. I'm sorry to Milan fans they had to go out that way, I wouldn't like it myself, but had they been the better team they would have gone through.

This is too much assumption. Anyone who knows and perhaps has played football will know what mental impact that second penalty had on AC Milan, because of its timing and how it happened. The minutes that followed their equalizing goal were the best in the whole match, because it looked very even. After the penalty, it disappeared. They were really affected by it.
Yes, if they were good enough they might've gone on to overturn the score and win the match, but that is not what the article and I are discussing here. There is no doubt that Barcelona were better. Whoever is attacking Barcelona's players should gtfo of this thread lol, AC Milan players would've done the same thing. In fact, I remember watching AC Milan play some time ago, and there were always some small decisions made by the ref that favored them when they shouldnt. Nothing as big as a penalty (as far as I can remember), but still, my point is that the big teams always get some help no matter where. Real Madrid x Athletic Bilbao was another example of how big teams get favored all the time.

However, this thread's intention is to discuss the penalty itself.

by harhar11 Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:21 am

stevieg8 wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
stevieg8 wrote:
harhar11 wrote:Then what you should do rsinatra is criticize the REF who dont follow the rule..
A foul is a foul even if its inside the penalty area..

I have said it before and I will say it again, first time ever that I see the ref get criticize for FOLLOWING the rules

Actually, we see it all the time. I'm not sure why Barca fans keep saying this. When a soft penalty is given, that's EXACTLY what's happening. That's why we call it soft, not wrong. This was an example of one of the softest penalties any of us neutrals have seen, and hence, we're talking about it as such.

And to ALL Barca fans looking at this thread - people would give you guys substantially less flack for these sorts of things if there were EVER an example of ANY of the fans saying "you're right, we got lucky this time." I've seen fans from every single club on this forum do that, including Madrid within the last month for a game in which they had a penalty given and one against them not, both wrong calls, and they came out and repeatedly said "yeah, we got lucky this time, happy we were able to come away with that." Never have I once seen a Barca fan do this; instead they post lol.com articles about how "if every single favorable decision made for Madrid was reversed, and every single unfavorable call made against Barca is reversed, but we don't analyze any of the calls going in the opposite direction, Barca would be in first" which fail to provide any meaningful analysis. Seriously guys, just say that the ref was wrong, that it happens sometimes, and that you can accept that, and everyone here will stop hating you as much.

Thats because in most of the controversial games i.e chelsea, arsenal, real madrid, inter and milan we have had just as many decision against us. The only team that can really complain is chelsea but even then, barca should have been 3-0 up if it wasnt for the ref if you belive that messi/eto'o would have scored those 2 penalties and eto'o the wrongly given offside call..

And while we are at the supporters admitting that they got lucky, why didn't arsenal say that they got lucky that messi got a goal wrongly disallowed or we were denied 3 penalties throught the tie? why didnt milan admitt it in the first leg?(IIRC they said that we should stop crying)

and it wasn't a soft penalty it was a cheap one. Nesta was holding Busquets shirt WITH BOTH OF HIS HANDS! The RULEBOOK state that its a foul and if inside penalty area = penalty. I dont care if the other refs are incapable to follow the rulebook.

I don't think I'm so terrible for not criticizing the losing teams for failing to say "we were lucky and lost anyway." No fan thinks like that. What I HAVE seen Arsenal/Milan/Chelsea/Madrid (and many other teams) fans do is admit after wins that they were benefited by luck/refereeing. Everyone knows bad decisions happen, and winning teams often benefit from mistakes. I think the claims that Barca is match-fixing or that UEFA is intentionally doing this are ludicrous, but to respond with "we are as unlucky as any other team and this was not a wrong decision" EVERY SINGLE TIME a controversy occurs seems extreme to me. I repeat, I have yet to see a Barca fan say "you know what, you're right. The ref was wrong in that case, and although I think we still would've won, I can admit that it changed the flow of the game and had an affect, and the decision was poor." That's all I'm asking for, and I would greatly respect it if I were to see it happen. And yet I'm still not hearing any Barca fans point to an instance when that was said.

@kiranr: that last line was for you. if you want to do what i asked for in EITHER post, go for it. instead you're just giving empty statements that fail to respond to the criticism i'm levelling, and that just makes me feel i'm even more right. if you can quote me a post where ANY barca fan said what i'm talking about, do it. if you can tell me of an incident when consensus (or at least a popular enough opinion that it makes sense in context) in the barca community was "we got lucky," then do that. I don't think i'm asking for that much, and if my claim is such a "generalization" that lacks observational skills, PROVE ME WRONG.

Yet those teams dont admit when they were lucky when they got decision against us, all they said is that we should stop crying... For ex the arsenal fans here still dont want to admit that they were lucky when messi got a goal wrongly disallowed against them, that the ref didnt give barca 3 penalties or that van persie should have been disallowed in the first half in the 2nd leg...

So my question is why are you saying that its just us barca fans who are like that?

Brady2Moss wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
Maybe the goals that we scored but not some of the chances that we made. Lets be honest here, that messi chance after the one-touch pass by fabregas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milans goal

And this play aswell

Why did Sanchez do that stupid back-heel to Xavi when he was in a better position to score? Still amazes me how a player at that level cannot shoot with their weaker foot, even at that range?

Mind=blown.

I dont know. When I saw that all I did was :facepalm:

--

Oh and btw why wasn't there any outcry calling milan for cheaters when ibra was offside against arsenal in the buildup to robinhos first goal and then he dived to win a penalty? If the ref would have done his job, then it would have been arsenal and not milan who got through.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:41 am

rsinatra wrote:This is too much assumption. Anyone who knows and perhaps has played football will know what mental impact that second penalty had on AC Milan, because of its timing and how it happened. The minutes that followed their equalizing goal were the best in the whole match, because it looked very even. After the penalty, it disappeared. They were really affected by it.

Billy addressed this well I believe

billy_gr wrote:Point 4: Awarding a non existing penalty to your oponent when you had just equilized is the worst kind of demotivation a team can get and I can totally understand any case made for Milan, however I was expecting some more fighting spirit, as there was so much time in the game (if they hadn’t conceeded Iniesta’s goal the game was still open)

by billionmillion Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:12 pm

I think rsantra is from Paraguay. because he doesnt sympathize the team with pato t.silva robinho. Journalist who wrote this article was from Colombia

seeing 3 countrymen out of CL hurts

by billionmillion Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:33 pm

The referee was following nesta vs busquet duel carefully and as soon as he saw busquet went down he made the call. But an unbiased journalist would say something like this "maybe this was a soft penalty but it can not be excuse"
- they celebrate 0-0 at home (thx to some wrong referee calls)
- they hope not to concede a goal at camp nou
- after barca's second goal they loose all their hope when game is still wide open
- defending full 90 minutes against a team with best attack (obviously you will either get a red card or penalty)
- Big mistake by Nesta on Busquets - you dont defend like this at corner kicks especially against Busquets
- Big mistake by Mexes at first goal (he gave the ball to messi in very simple situation and he has no enough speed to chase him)
- And finally you make only 3 attempt vs barca's 20 attempt whole game

Milan has more fault at this defeat than the referee who gave one soft penalty. Barcelona deserved to go through. if barca were even 4-1 down they would attack like a beast. unlike milan who lost all their hope after 2-1

by stevieg8 Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:22 pm

harhar11 wrote:
stevieg8 wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
stevieg8 wrote:
harhar11 wrote:Then what you should do rsinatra is criticize the REF who dont follow the rule..
A foul is a foul even if its inside the penalty area..

I have said it before and I will say it again, first time ever that I see the ref get criticize for FOLLOWING the rules

Actually, we see it all the time. I'm not sure why Barca fans keep saying this. When a soft penalty is given, that's EXACTLY what's happening. That's why we call it soft, not wrong. This was an example of one of the softest penalties any of us neutrals have seen, and hence, we're talking about it as such.

And to ALL Barca fans looking at this thread - people would give you guys substantially less flack for these sorts of things if there were EVER an example of ANY of the fans saying "you're right, we got lucky this time." I've seen fans from every single club on this forum do that, including Madrid within the last month for a game in which they had a penalty given and one against them not, both wrong calls, and they came out and repeatedly said "yeah, we got lucky this time, happy we were able to come away with that." Never have I once seen a Barca fan do this; instead they post lol.com articles about how "if every single favorable decision made for Madrid was reversed, and every single unfavorable call made against Barca is reversed, but we don't analyze any of the calls going in the opposite direction, Barca would be in first" which fail to provide any meaningful analysis. Seriously guys, just say that the ref was wrong, that it happens sometimes, and that you can accept that, and everyone here will stop hating you as much.

Thats because in most of the controversial games i.e chelsea, arsenal, real madrid, inter and milan we have had just as many decision against us. The only team that can really complain is chelsea but even then, barca should have been 3-0 up if it wasnt for the ref if you belive that messi/eto'o would have scored those 2 penalties and eto'o the wrongly given offside call..

And while we are at the supporters admitting that they got lucky, why didn't arsenal say that they got lucky that messi got a goal wrongly disallowed or we were denied 3 penalties throught the tie? why didnt milan admitt it in the first leg?(IIRC they said that we should stop crying)

and it wasn't a soft penalty it was a cheap one. Nesta was holding Busquets shirt WITH BOTH OF HIS HANDS! The RULEBOOK state that its a foul and if inside penalty area = penalty. I dont care if the other refs are incapable to follow the rulebook.

I don't think I'm so terrible for not criticizing the losing teams for failing to say "we were lucky and lost anyway." No fan thinks like that. What I HAVE seen Arsenal/Milan/Chelsea/Madrid (and many other teams) fans do is admit after wins that they were benefited by luck/refereeing. Everyone knows bad decisions happen, and winning teams often benefit from mistakes. I think the claims that Barca is match-fixing or that UEFA is intentionally doing this are ludicrous, but to respond with "we are as unlucky as any other team and this was not a wrong decision" EVERY SINGLE TIME a controversy occurs seems extreme to me. I repeat, I have yet to see a Barca fan say "you know what, you're right. The ref was wrong in that case, and although I think we still would've won, I can admit that it changed the flow of the game and had an affect, and the decision was poor." That's all I'm asking for, and I would greatly respect it if I were to see it happen. And yet I'm still not hearing any Barca fans point to an instance when that was said.

@kiranr: that last line was for you. if you want to do what i asked for in EITHER post, go for it. instead you're just giving empty statements that fail to respond to the criticism i'm levelling, and that just makes me feel i'm even more right. if you can quote me a post where ANY barca fan said what i'm talking about, do it. if you can tell me of an incident when consensus (or at least a popular enough opinion that it makes sense in context) in the barca community was "we got lucky," then do that. I don't think i'm asking for that much, and if my claim is such a "generalization" that lacks observational skills, PROVE ME WRONG.

Yet those teams dont admit when they were lucky when they got decision against us, all they said is that we should stop crying... For ex the arsenal fans here still dont want to admit that they were lucky when messi got a goal wrongly disallowed against them, that the ref didnt give barca 3 penalties or that van persie should have been disallowed in the first half in the 2nd leg...

So my question is why are you saying that its just us barca fans who are like that?

i said in the second post very clearly, that i only hold winning teams to this standard, as people who have just lost a game are prone to be illogical and irrational, but i'm ok with that - it's human nature. my point was that i HAVE seen arsenal fans do this after beating wolves or qpr or lesser teams in the champions league, but when they come out of two legs against barca and have lost, they're not about to say "well, we got lucky with ref decisions and still lost, i guess we just really suck." that would only happen in very rare cases. it's the winning team i hold to a higher standard, and barca - as the best team in the world - are VERY often in that position, and yet i still don't see it happening.

and to toey - the expression moving the goalposts implied that somebody put a shot on my net, so to speak, but i moved the goal away so that they still missed. as i explained in a later post, that you easily could have read instead of ignoring, it's not moving the goalposts if NOBODY EVEN TOOK A SHOT. no barca fan came back with an example for me after the first post, so i rephrased it for the second one, and subsequently said i would accept an answer to either way of phrasing it. seriously, try reading what i post before you respond to me.

by rsinatra Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:02 pm

billionmillion wrote:I think rsantra is from Paraguay. because he doesnt sympathize the team with pato t.silva robinho. Journalist who wrote this article was from Colombia

seeing 3 countrymen out of CL hurts

i think you are an argentine: because of what you just said.

messi bandwagon much

by harhar11 Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:19 pm

stevieg8 wrote:
i said in the second post very clearly, that i only hold winning teams to this standard, as people who have just lost a game are prone to be illogical and irrational, but i'm ok with that - it's human nature. my point was that i HAVE seen arsenal fans do this after beating wolves or qpr or lesser teams in the champions league, but when they come out of two legs against barca and have lost, they're not about to say "well, we got lucky with ref decisions and still lost, i guess we just really suck." that would only happen in very rare cases. it's the winning team i hold to a higher standard, and barca - as the best team in the world - are VERY often in that position, and yet i still don't see it happening.

and to toey - the expression moving the goalposts implied that somebody put a shot on my net, so to speak, but i moved the goal away so that they still missed. as i explained in a later post, that you easily could have read instead of ignoring, it's not moving the goalposts if NOBODY EVEN TOOK A SHOT. no barca fan came back with an example for me after the first post, so i rephrased it for the second one, and subsequently said i would accept an answer to either way of phrasing it. seriously, try reading what i post before you respond to me.

But then you have to also put the decision that goes AGAINST BARCA into consideration aswell. And lets be honest, the nesta penalty was not the worst decision made by refs throught the tie, the sanchez and puyol penalties that were not given were even worse...

And milan is also a "winning team". Last season they won the scudetto, are 1st this season and lets not forget that they have won the most CL after real madrid and yet when milan robbed arsenal no one said a thing. Can you imagine how much they would cry if those 2 goals would have been scored by barca? Imagine how many threads would be created about uefalona...

by stevieg8 Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:46 am

harhar11 wrote:
stevieg8 wrote:
i said in the second post very clearly, that i only hold winning teams to this standard, as people who have just lost a game are prone to be illogical and irrational, but i'm ok with that - it's human nature. my point was that i HAVE seen arsenal fans do this after beating wolves or qpr or lesser teams in the champions league, but when they come out of two legs against barca and have lost, they're not about to say "well, we got lucky with ref decisions and still lost, i guess we just really suck." that would only happen in very rare cases. it's the winning team i hold to a higher standard, and barca - as the best team in the world - are VERY often in that position, and yet i still don't see it happening.

and to toey - the expression moving the goalposts implied that somebody put a shot on my net, so to speak, but i moved the goal away so that they still missed. as i explained in a later post, that you easily could have read instead of ignoring, it's not moving the goalposts if NOBODY EVEN TOOK A SHOT. no barca fan came back with an example for me after the first post, so i rephrased it for the second one, and subsequently said i would accept an answer to either way of phrasing it. seriously, try reading what i post before you respond to me.

But then you have to also put the decision that goes AGAINST BARCA into consideration aswell. And lets be honest, the nesta penalty was not the worst decision made by refs throught the tie, the sanchez and puyol penalties that were not given were even worse...

And milan is also a "winning team". Last season they won the scudetto, are 1st this season and lets not forget that they have won the most CL after real madrid and yet when milan robbed arsenal no one said a thing. Can you imagine how much they would cry if those 2 goals would have been scored by barca? Imagine how many threads would be created about uefalona...

it's not about winning culture, it's about winning the tie. i'm referencing the response to one specific game, and all i'm saying is that there's no reason to expect the losing fans to admit to anything, they're upset about a loss. it's the winners of the tie that should be capable of being logical - they just won, they're not clouded by the result. all i'm saying is to be gracious and not feel the need to fight against everything. nobody would take anything away from you or your team if you just admitted sometimes what EVERYONE else seems to see.

and for the record, there WERE threads made about the crappy goals milan scored. i remember reading them. but yeah, barca gets more flack for the decisions that go their way, in my opinion, because of the attitude i'm calling out. i feel like people wouldn't feel as much of a need to flame about the calls if you guys weren't consistently so stubborn about it.

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