A (neutral) article about that penalty call at the Barça X AC Milan match.

Then what you should do rsinatra is criticize the REF who dont follow the rule..
A foul is a foul even if its inside the penalty area..

I have said it before and I will say it again, first time ever that I see the ref get criticize for FOLLOWING the rules

This article just assumes the players were not warned before the game to cut the shirt pulling out. Barca did it too in the first game a couple times in the middle of the field when Milan threatened to have a break away and on Ibra.

I find that very unlikely as Barca were very vocal during the week that they had 2 penalties not given in the first game one being a wide open Puyol header which he was pulled to ground on a corner kick that prevented a goal and the camera angle they had on it was perfect and it was a stone cold penalty. Just as much as refs don't like to make bad calls they also don't like looking like the guy who misses big calls as well.

I said this in another thread, after Mou complained about always playing against Barca a man down (after one or two times a Madrid player was sent off on a very soft call) the next couple games in the CL and other competitions the ref just refused to send anyone off and it started to border on rugby games, even the English announcers during some of the games who are pro physical play were stunned some of the Madrid players didn't get sent off they even said Ade and Pepe should have been sent off twice over.

IT's very natural in a two legged tie for the refs to warn players not to conduct the same behavior that happened in the first game. To just assume no warnings were ever given to either team is irresponsible on the authors part.

rsinatra wrote:

free_cat wrote:This article is sh¡t. It is false that this kind of penalties are almost never whistled and the rules are there.

Cuenca was given a yellow card for doing the same as Nesta in the midield...

There is a reason why football rules are so strict with holding/grabbing, it's because football comes from rugby, and not allowing the holding/grabbing was initially one of the biggest differences between both sports.

Wow, a Barcelona fan/(Catalunya nationalist/separatist?) is saying that the article is shit. I am so surprised.

Don't give me this bs example about Cuenca. The discussion is about inside the box. The fact remains that it is 95% of the time, when it's inside the box, it is NOT given.

There are no differences in Fifa rules of the game between a foul in the box and a foul in the central circle. Do some reading.

Bold part is an argumentum ad hominen, not any real argument on this debate, and an argument I didn't use even though you are clearly a Milan simpathiser, hence biased too. And yes, I'm a catalan independentist.

rsinatra wrote:

free_cat wrote:This article is sh¡t. It is false that this kind of penalties are almost never whistled and the rules are there.

Cuenca was given a yellow card for doing the same as Nesta in the midield...

There is a reason why football rules are so strict with holding/grabbing, it's because football comes from rugby, and not allowing the holding/grabbing was initially one of the biggest differences between both sports.

Wow, a Barcelona fan/(Catalunya nationalist/separatist?) is saying that the article is shit. I am so surprised.

Don't give me this bs example about Cuenca. The discussion is about inside the box. The fact remains that it is 95% of the time, when it's inside the box, it is NOT given.

Stop your bias, please. Let's talk about reality.

I dont understand why you brought that up(you might have a point about him being a cule so he is biased)? There are lots of catalan who are not independentista who thinks that those are penalty.. Heck there are lots of spanish madridista who thinks that those are penalties!

harhar11 wrote:Then what you should do rsinatra is criticize the REF who dont follow the rule..
A foul is a foul even if its inside the penalty area..

I have said it before and I will say it again, first time ever that I see the ref get criticize for FOLLOWING the rules

Actually, we see it all the time. I'm not sure why Barca fans keep saying this. When a soft penalty is given, that's EXACTLY what's happening. That's why we call it soft, not wrong. This was an example of one of the softest penalties any of us neutrals have seen, and hence, we're talking about it as such.

And to ALL Barca fans looking at this thread - people would give you guys substantially less flack for these sorts of things if there were EVER an example of ANY of the fans saying "you're right, we got lucky this time." I've seen fans from every single club on this forum do that, including Madrid within the last month for a game in which they had a penalty given and one against them not, both wrong calls, and they came out and repeatedly said "yeah, we got lucky this time, happy we were able to come away with that." Never have I once seen a Barca fan do this; instead they post lol.com articles about how "if every single favorable decision made for Madrid was reversed, and every single unfavorable call made against Barca is reversed, but we don't analyze any of the calls going in the opposite direction, Barca would be in first" which fail to provide any meaningful analysis. Seriously guys, just say that the ref was wrong, that it happens sometimes, and that you can accept that, and everyone here will stop hating you as much.

harhar11 wrote:

rsinatra wrote:

free_cat wrote:This article is sh¡t. It is false that this kind of penalties are almost never whistled and the rules are there.

Cuenca was given a yellow card for doing the same as Nesta in the midield...

There is a reason why football rules are so strict with holding/grabbing, it's because football comes from rugby, and not allowing the holding/grabbing was initially one of the biggest differences between both sports.

Wow, a Barcelona fan/(Catalunya nationalist/separatist?) is saying that the article is shit. I am so surprised.

Don't give me this bs example about Cuenca. The discussion is about inside the box. The fact remains that it is 95% of the time, when it's inside the box, it is NOT given.

Stop your bias, please. Let's talk about reality.

I dont understand why you brought that up(you might have a point about him being a cule so he is biased)? There are lots of catalan who are not independentista who thinks that those are penalty.. Heck there are lots of spanish madridista who thinks that those are penalties!

lol the catalan independista is not my point, it was just to emphasize the fact that he is a biased barca fan, and a real one (not a glory hunter) at that.

free_cat wrote:

rsinatra wrote:

free_cat wrote:This article is sh¡t. It is false that this kind of penalties are almost never whistled and the rules are there.

Cuenca was given a yellow card for doing the same as Nesta in the midield...

There is a reason why football rules are so strict with holding/grabbing, it's because football comes from rugby, and not allowing the holding/grabbing was initially one of the biggest differences between both sports.

Wow, a Barcelona fan/(Catalunya nationalist/separatist?) is saying that the article is shit. I am so surprised.

Don't give me this bs example about Cuenca. The discussion is about inside the box. The fact remains that it is 95% of the time, when it's inside the box, it is NOT given.

There are no differences in Fifa rules of the game between a foul in the box and a foul in the central circle. Do some reading.

Bold part is an argumentum ad hominen, not any real argument on this debate, and an argument I didn't use even though you are clearly a Milan simpathiser, hence biased too. And yes, I'm a catalan independentist.

milan sympathizer? lol just a couple of weeks ago i was being called a barcelona fan by some real madrid people on this forum, because i said neymar should go to barcelona and not real madrid, and because i said that barcelona are the best team in the world and should be UCL champions.. lol

FYI, yesterday i was rooting for barcelona lol you couldn't be wronger. that is, until that outrageous penalty call was made, then i started rooting for ac milan, yes. in the end, i just wanted to see some good, fair football. and at first i wanted barcelona to win because they are more interesting for the neutral eye. but those penalties stained their win for me, although it still was a much deserved win.

btw, if you read the article (did you?), it actually talks about the difference between the rule book and reality. you have shown nothing to contest the argument shown, except that "it's in the rule book" blablablah.

stevieg8 wrote:
Actually, we see it all the time. I'm not sure why Barca fans keep saying this. When a soft penalty is given, that's EXACTLY what's happening. That's why we call it soft, not wrong. This was an example of one of the softest penalties any of us neutrals have seen, and hence, we're talking about it as such.

And to ALL Barca fans looking at this thread - people would give you guys substantially less flack for these sorts of things if there were EVER an example of ANY of the fans saying "you're right, we got lucky this time." I've seen fans from every single club on this forum do that, including Madrid within the last month for a game in which they had a penalty given and one against them not, both wrong calls, and they came out and repeatedly said "yeah, we got lucky this time, happy we were able to come away with that." Never have I once seen a Barca fan do this; instead they post lol.com articles about how "if every single favorable decision made for Madrid was reversed, and every single unfavorable call made against Barca is reversed, but we don't analyze any of the calls going in the opposite direction, Barca would be in first" which fail to provide any meaningful analysis. Seriously guys, just say that the ref was wrong, that it happens sometimes, and that you can accept that, and everyone here will stop hating you as much.

Love your observation skills and your generalization.

dunno if it was too much generalization, but im impressed at the fact that i havent seen one single barca fan admit it. the whole world must have gone mad: they are the only sane people left.

rsinatra wrote:
milan sympathizer? lol just a couple of weeks ago i was being called a barcelona fan by some real madrid people on this forum, because i said neymar should go to barcelona and not real madrid, and because i said that barcelona are the best team in the world and should be UCL champions.. lol

FYI, yesterday i was rooting for barcelona lol you couldn't be wronger. that is, until that outrageous penalty call was made, then i started rooting for ac milan. that's how neutral i was: just wanting to see some good, fair football. and i wanted barcelona to win because they are more interesting for the neutral eye.

btw, if you read the article (did you?), it actually talks about the difference between the rule book and reality. you have shown nothing to contest the argument shown, except that "it's in the rule book" blablablah.

You are always talking about milan in this forum because they have Pato and TS. Anyway, it doesn't matter, I don't use argumentums ad hominen as you did.

I did provide several arguments:

a) the ref was consistent and gave Cuenca a tougher penalty for the same action in the midield.
b) there is no difference between a foul in the midfield than in the box.
c) Most importantly: it is in the rules. Yes, you know, rules are there to be followed. I was always told by my coaches not to hold players blatantly because it was a foul. Nesta did it blatantly = foul. In the box = penalty.

rsinatra wrote:
milan sympathizer? lol just a couple of weeks ago i was being called a barcelona fan by some real madrid people on this forum, because i said neymar should go to barcelona and not real madrid, and because i said that barcelona are the best team in the world and should be UCL champions.. lol

FYI, yesterday i was rooting for barcelona lol you couldn't be wronger. that is, until that outrageous penalty call was made, then i started rooting for ac milan. that's how neutral i was: just wanting to see some good, fair football. and i wanted barcelona to win because they are more interesting for the neutral eye.

btw, if you read the article (did you?), it actually talks about the difference between the rule book and reality. you have shown nothing to contest the argument shown, except that "it's in the rule book" blablablah.

How does the author know whether the players were warned or not?

Anyway, i do get the author's point. But when the implementation of the rules are up for interpretation, you get these kind of decisions.

I am not at all outraged by it, because Barcelona have had a number of calls go against them this season. It is the law of averages.

once again: i am not blaming the players. hell, they have to do what they can to get their team to win. i am blaming the ref, the circumstances in which he made the call leading to a certain powerful team to benefit from it.

i am huge barcelona admirer and i still think that they should win it for football's sake.

kiranr wrote:

rsinatra wrote:
milan sympathizer? lol just a couple of weeks ago i was being called a barcelona fan by some real madrid people on this forum, because i said neymar should go to barcelona and not real madrid, and because i said that barcelona are the best team in the world and should be UCL champions.. lol

FYI, yesterday i was rooting for barcelona lol you couldn't be wronger. that is, until that outrageous penalty call was made, then i started rooting for ac milan. that's how neutral i was: just wanting to see some good, fair football. and i wanted barcelona to win because they are more interesting for the neutral eye.

btw, if you read the article (did you?), it actually talks about the difference between the rule book and reality. you have shown nothing to contest the argument shown, except that "it's in the rule book" blablablah.

How does the author know whether the players were warned or not?

Anyway, i do get the author's point. But when the implementation of the rules are up for interpretation, you get these kind of decisions.

I am not at all outraged by it, because Barcelona have had a number of calls go against them this season. It is the law of averages.

None of these calls were as important and as decisive as the one made last night. It's a champions league quarter final. And come on, no one can know whether he warned them, but what are the odds? "Hey guys, i wish you all a good game, btw, i will call it a penalty if any of you pull each other's shirt, whether you are involved in the play or not, okay? are we clear? okay good luck."

i agree with you, something so subjective can result in situations like this one. but let's see, it doesn't happen in 95% of the time. it's embarrassing that it does so all of a sudden at such an important match. a UEFA ref should know better.

kiranr wrote:

stevieg8 wrote:
Actually, we see it all the time. I'm not sure why Barca fans keep saying this. When a soft penalty is given, that's EXACTLY what's happening. That's why we call it soft, not wrong. This was an example of one of the softest penalties any of us neutrals have seen, and hence, we're talking about it as such.

And to ALL Barca fans looking at this thread - people would give you guys substantially less flack for these sorts of things if there were EVER an example of ANY of the fans saying "you're right, we got lucky this time." I've seen fans from every single club on this forum do that, including Madrid within the last month for a game in which they had a penalty given and one against them not, both wrong calls, and they came out and repeatedly said "yeah, we got lucky this time, happy we were able to come away with that." Never have I once seen a Barca fan do this; instead they post lol.com articles about how "if every single favorable decision made for Madrid was reversed, and every single unfavorable call made against Barca is reversed, but we don't analyze any of the calls going in the opposite direction, Barca would be in first" which fail to provide any meaningful analysis. Seriously guys, just say that the ref was wrong, that it happens sometimes, and that you can accept that, and everyone here will stop hating you as much.

Love your observation skills and your generalization.

Love your response and debate tactics. Please, kind sir, lead us blind ignorant people and do quote me an instance on this forum - or just remind me of the incident, you don't even have to search the forum - where the majority of barca fans we're willing to admit they got lucky and the call in theyre favor was wrong. Please, point me in that direction, I'm too stupid on my own.

This isnt an article or is it neutral, it was a reasonable penalty. The most fluky thing about that match was milans goal.

free_cat wrote:

rsinatra wrote:
milan sympathizer? lol just a couple of weeks ago i was being called a barcelona fan by some real madrid people on this forum, because i said neymar should go to barcelona and not real madrid, and because i said that barcelona are the best team in the world and should be UCL champions.. lol

FYI, yesterday i was rooting for barcelona lol you couldn't be wronger. that is, until that outrageous penalty call was made, then i started rooting for ac milan. that's how neutral i was: just wanting to see some good, fair football. and i wanted barcelona to win because they are more interesting for the neutral eye.

btw, if you read the article (did you?), it actually talks about the difference between the rule book and reality. you have shown nothing to contest the argument shown, except that "it's in the rule book" blablablah.

You are always talking about milan in this forum because they have Pato and TS. Anyway, it doesn't matter, I don't use argumentums ad hominen as you did.

I did provide several arguments:

a) the ref was consistent and gave Cuenca a tougher penalty for the same action in the midield.
b) there is no difference between a foul in the midfield than in the box.
c) Most importantly: it is in the rules. Yes, you know, rules are there to be followed. I was always told by my coaches not to hold players blatantly because it was a foul. Nesta did it blatantly = foul. In the box = penalty.

ad hominen? when did i attack you? okay i said that you are biased, is that so bad? give me a break, it's not like i called you an asshole.

a) nothing to do with the case.
b) ^because in practice there is a huge difference, and anyone who watches football will know that, and that's the argument the article's author is talking about.
c) read the article and get the point ffs. it's not against the rule itself. it's against the way it's been applied throughout the years and how it differs from the way it was applied last night.

but i don't think we're gonna agree on that one and that's that.

rsinatra wrote:

harhar11 wrote:

rsinatra wrote:

free_cat wrote:This article is sh¡t. It is false that this kind of penalties are almost never whistled and the rules are there.

Cuenca was given a yellow card for doing the same as Nesta in the midield...

There is a reason why football rules are so strict with holding/grabbing, it's because football comes from rugby, and not allowing the holding/grabbing was initially one of the biggest differences between both sports.

Wow, a Barcelona fan/(Catalunya nationalist/separatist?) is saying that the article is shit. I am so surprised.

Don't give me this bs example about Cuenca. The discussion is about inside the box. The fact remains that it is 95% of the time, when it's inside the box, it is NOT given.

Stop your bias, please. Let's talk about reality.

I dont understand why you brought that up(you might have a point about him being a cule so he is biased)? There are lots of catalan who are not independentista who thinks that those are penalty.. Heck there are lots of spanish madridista who thinks that those are penalties!

lol the catalan independista is not my point, it was just to emphasize the fact that he is a biased barca fan, and a real one (not a glory hunter) at that.

Then just say that he is a catalan cule and not where he stand in terms of politic. I get bored when even Guardiola and co mix politic and football..

harhar11 wrote:

rsinatra wrote:

harhar11 wrote:

rsinatra wrote:

free_cat wrote:This article is sh¡t. It is false that this kind of penalties are almost never whistled and the rules are there.

Cuenca was given a yellow card for doing the same as Nesta in the midield...

There is a reason why football rules are so strict with holding/grabbing, it's because football comes from rugby, and not allowing the holding/grabbing was initially one of the biggest differences between both sports.

Wow, a Barcelona fan/(Catalunya nationalist/separatist?) is saying that the article is shit. I am so surprised.

Don't give me this bs example about Cuenca. The discussion is about inside the box. The fact remains that it is 95% of the time, when it's inside the box, it is NOT given.

Stop your bias, please. Let's talk about reality.

I dont understand why you brought that up(you might have a point about him being a cule so he is biased)? There are lots of catalan who are not independentista who thinks that those are penalty.. Heck there are lots of spanish madridista who thinks that those are penalties!

lol the catalan independista is not my point, it was just to emphasize the fact that he is a biased barca fan, and a real one (not a glory hunter) at that.

Then just say that he is a catalan cule and not where he stand in terms of politic. I get bored when even Guardiola and co mix politic and football..

fair enough, i will do that next time

stevieg8 wrote:

Love your response and debate tactics. Please, kind sir, lead us blind ignorant people and do quote me an instance on this forum - or just remind me of the incident, you don't even have to search the forum - where the majority of barca fans we're willing to admit they got lucky and the call in theyre favor was wrong. Please, point me in that direction, I'm too stupid on my own.

That is not what you said the first time. Debate tactics ftw!

Yuri Yukuv wrote:This isnt an article or is it neutral, it was a reasonable penalty. The most fluky thing about that match was milans goal.

No on all accounts.

And Milans goal was actually quiet nice, better than anything Farca could muster over two legs.

Seppuku wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:This isnt an article or is it neutral, it was a reasonable penalty. The most fluky thing about that match was milans goal.

No on all accounts.

And Milans goal was actually quiet nice, better than anything Farca could muster over two legs.

true that, milan's goal was better than any of the 3 barca goals imho. at 1-1, just when the match was getting interesting..: in steps the stupid ref.

sinatra is not a milan sympathizer hes a barca sympathizer if anything


and lol at our "fluky" goal.better than any of barca's 3

stevieg8 wrote:

harhar11 wrote:Then what you should do rsinatra is criticize the REF who dont follow the rule..
A foul is a foul even if its inside the penalty area..

I have said it before and I will say it again, first time ever that I see the ref get criticize for FOLLOWING the rules

Actually, we see it all the time. I'm not sure why Barca fans keep saying this. When a soft penalty is given, that's EXACTLY what's happening. That's why we call it soft, not wrong. This was an example of one of the softest penalties any of us neutrals have seen, and hence, we're talking about it as such.

And to ALL Barca fans looking at this thread - people would give you guys substantially less flack for these sorts of things if there were EVER an example of ANY of the fans saying "you're right, we got lucky this time." I've seen fans from every single club on this forum do that, including Madrid within the last month for a game in which they had a penalty given and one against them not, both wrong calls, and they came out and repeatedly said "yeah, we got lucky this time, happy we were able to come away with that." Never have I once seen a Barca fan do this; instead they post lol.com articles about how "if every single favorable decision made for Madrid was reversed, and every single unfavorable call made against Barca is reversed, but we don't analyze any of the calls going in the opposite direction, Barca would be in first" which fail to provide any meaningful analysis. Seriously guys, just say that the ref was wrong, that it happens sometimes, and that you can accept that, and everyone here will stop hating you as much.

Thats because in most of the controversial games i.e chelsea, arsenal, real madrid, inter and milan we have had just as many decision against us. The only team that can really complain is chelsea but even then, barca should have been 3-0 up if it wasnt for the ref if you belive that messi/eto'o would have scored those 2 penalties and eto'o the wrongly given offside call..

And while we are at the supporters admitting that they got lucky, why didn't arsenal say that they got lucky that messi got a goal wrongly disallowed or we were denied 3 penalties throught the tie? why didnt milan admitt it in the first leg?(IIRC they said that we should stop crying)

and it wasn't a soft penalty it was a cheap one. Nesta was holding Busquets shirt WITH BOTH OF HIS HANDS! The RULEBOOK state that its a foul and if inside penalty area = penalty. I dont care if the other refs are incapable to follow the rulebook.

Ganso wrote:sinatra is not a milan sympathizer hes a barca sympathizer if anything


and lol at our "fluky" goal.better than any of barca's 3

i'm a sympathizer of good football, and right now barcelona play the most interesting football in europe

"Interesting" is a highly subjective word.

Seppuku wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:This isnt an article or is it neutral, it was a reasonable penalty. The most fluky thing about that match was milans goal.

No on all accounts.

And Milans goal was actually quiet nice, better than anything Farca could muster over two legs.

Maybe the goals that we scored but not some of the chances that we made. Lets be honest here, that messi chance after the one-touch pass by fabregas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milans goal

And this play aswell

Seppuku wrote:"Interesting" is a highly subjective word.

well i am talking about myself, so..