juventus101 wrote:Fact is, right now, Xavi and Pirlo are both elite, world class misfielders. I believe Pirlo is bettrt, but thats all opinion. Anothr fact is, Pirlo has been playing at this level for a decade. Xavis been at this level for 4 years. And for all of those 4 years, Xavi has been supported by a player alot of people believe will become the best of all time, if hes not already. Pirlo never had that. Its not iust a coincidence that Xavi and Messi exploded at the same time. Xavi was coming up on 30 when Mssai exploded, so its also not that he only now in the last 4 years reached his potential. Messi makes Xavi look on par with Pirlo. Take Messi out of the equation, such as pre-2008, and its clear for all to see that Xavi is the better player.

juventus101 wrote:Fact is, right now, Xavi and Pirlo are both elite, world class misfielders. I believe Pirlo is bettrt, but thats all opinion. Anothr fact is, Pirlo has been playing at this level for a decade. Xavis been at this level for 4 years. And for all of those 4 years, Xavi has been supported by a player alot of people believe will become the best of all time, if hes not already. Pirlo never had that. Its not iust a coincidence that Xavi and Messi exploded at the same time. Xavi was coming up on 30 when Mssai exploded, so its also not that he only now in the last 4 years reached his potential. Messi makes Xavi look on par with Pirlo. Take Messi out of the equation, such as pre-2008, and its clear for all to see that Xavi is the better player.

How has Pirlo been at this level for 10 years?For around 3 years near the end of his Milan tenure he was poor.So much so that Milan considered him surplus to requirements and let him go for free.

Luca wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:To be the man,you got to beat the man.
When it mattered Xavi wiped the floor with Pirlo and left him crying.And Xavi has been imperious this season.Pirlo getting supposedly superior teams in a poor leaggue doesnt change that.
Useless stats aside,if Barca meet Juventus,the result will be the same. Xavi wiping the floor with Pirlo.

What's funny is some people actually might follow this crude, baseless logic lmao

Whats crude and baseless about it?
Its a far more effective method than to judge based on stats when the two have completely different roles and positions.
End of the day they faced off against each other in the Euro final.Before you bring up the team excuse,the majority consensus is that Busquets is overrated and that De Rossi is far better.Also there were some claims that Marchisio was world class and even as good as Iniesta.
So Pirlo had excellent support which nullifies the team argument.
Xavi was face to face against Pirlo.Not only did he manage to nullify Pirlo,but Xavi also managed to put in a mesmerizing performance.

Pirlo destroyed Spain in the first game though,Busquets was getting burned by him left and right.

TBH Pirlo completely overshadowed Xavi in the Euro.Xavi's only actually good game was on the final

Ganso wrote:Pirlo destroyed Spain in the first game though,Busquets was getting burned by him left and right.

TBH Pirlo completely overshadowed Xavi in the Euro.Xavi's only actually good game was on the final

That's really funny, breh.





The awkward moment when your whole Euro reputation is based on a panenka penalty kick and performance against the worst national team of all time.

That awkward moment when you are criticizing people for posting stats yet you post some stupid ones yourself,nice hypocrisy there.What is this again ?Whoscored ratings ? Lmao

Atleast the stats i posted gave some relevance as to who is more direct of the two and who out of the two aims for more riskier passes.

This shit you posted doesnt indicate anything.

Pirlo shit for 3 years?

Under the final year of Ancelotti he was excellent and was the essential playmaking crux of our midfield. Under Leonardo he was even better as here he was utilized more closer to a Trequartista position and was largely impressive through out the whole year (playing in a 4-3-3/4-2-4 even through the teams' inconsistencies. Under Allegri he was magnificent until he was injured for 6-7 months.

1.He was sold because Milan were focusing on youth transition and slowly wanted to push out the midfield despite their age.

2. Allegri wanted to create a side independent of Pirlo as the sole crux of the midfield into a more all rounded midfield which would be difficult to nullify even if one midfielder was marked out. It had mixed results yet improvements were vast. Pirlo wasn't picking up form to well after his lengthy injury.

3. Allegri wanted to stay at Milan yet Galliani wasn't willing to keep the same wages Pirlo was being paid since the wage bill on a whole was being reduced. Pirlo himself then chose the move to Juve since he wanted a change of scenery.


And Pirlo was superior in the Euros and the group stage match yet not in the final. Then again he had less than 2 days rest while Espana had more rest and didn't play a formation (like Italia) which would not suit the team due to fatigue and other factors.

juventus101 wrote:Messi makes Xavi look on par with Pirlo. Take Messi out of the equation, such as pre-2008, and its clear for all to see that Xavi is the better player.

Please just stop.
I love how everyone diminishes Messi's achievents because he is having Xavi and iniesta near him, and now we also have posts like this. It's safe to say that Pirlo's golden years in Milan were due to Kaka, Rui COsta or Shevchenko huh?

As I've already told you, pre 2008 Xavi was utilized out of possition. Not really hard to get

Plus yeah I like how Messi helped Xavi win everything with Spain. The pair were so good it was unfair

Xavi completed more passes than Pirlo,better indeed.forgive me for my ignorance

Ganso wrote:Pirlo destroyed Spain in the first game though,Busquets was getting burned by him left and right.

TBH Pirlo completely overshadowed Xavi in the Euro.Xavi's only actually good game was on the final

Pirlo didn't destroy anything. It was an even game.

And "Xavi's only good game was the final " is not true. Watch Spain vs France again and Xavi vs portugal.

Surag wrote:That awkward moment when you are criticizing people for posting stats yet you post some stupid ones yourself,nice hypocrisy there.What is this again ?Whoscored ratings ? Lmao

Atleast the stats i posted gave some relevance as to who is more direct of the two and who out of the two aims for more riskier passes.

This shit you posted doesnt indicate anything.

Why not ?

RealGunner wrote:

Surag wrote:That awkward moment when you are criticizing people for posting stats yet you post some stupid ones yourself,nice hypocrisy there.What is this again ?Whoscored ratings ? Lmao

Atleast the stats i posted gave some relevance as to who is more direct of the two and who out of the two aims for more riskier passes.

This shit you posted doesnt indicate anything.

Why not ?

So according to his stats Xavi completed 1 billion passes(most of them sideways and backwards i'm sure) and has a passing accuracy of 90%..Indeed it does indicate that Xavi outshown Pirlo in the game.

Thrice the amount of key passes by Xavi ( 7 to 2 ), 107 passes to Pirlo's 39, 90% passing accuracy to Pirlo's 82%, 100% long ball accuracy, 6 through balls attempted by Xavi to pirlo's 1. Spain ended up with 66% Possession to Italy's 34%


Why was Pirlo better then ?

The statistic I posted, among other things, shows that Pirlo made only 32 successful passes in the whole game. Which means that he controled or dictated feck all as you would expect from a midfield maestro. That's 1 pass every 3 minutes. Barely in the game. Also more than 33 % of Pirlo's passes were outright backwards in that game (not sideways but actually BACKWARDS and inside his own half). Want me to upload his passing chart? Whereas out of Xavi's 96 successful passes, 7 alone were "key" and not "backwards / sideways stuff". 7. That's 22 % of all of Pirlo's succesfull passes in the whole game. Clearly Pirlo "destroyed" Spain and Xavi was just wank until the final.

DEM trademark Xavi backwards passes:

futbol wrote:

Ganso wrote:Pirlo destroyed Spain in the first game though,Busquets was getting burned by him left and right.

TBH Pirlo completely overshadowed Xavi in the Euro.Xavi's only actually good game was on the final

That's really funny, breh.





The awkward moment when your whole Euro reputation is based on a panenka penalty kick and performance against the worst national team of all time.

That awkward moment when you use the word 'breh'

alexjanosik wrote:

Luca wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:To be the man,you got to beat the man.
When it mattered Xavi wiped the floor with Pirlo and left him crying.And Xavi has been imperious this season.Pirlo getting supposedly superior teams in a poor leaggue doesnt change that.
Useless stats aside,if Barca meet Juventus,the result will be the same. Xavi wiping the floor with Pirlo.

What's funny is some people actually might follow this crude, baseless logic lmao

Whats crude and baseless about it?
Its a far more effective method than to judge based on stats when the two have completely different roles and positions.
End of the day they faced off against each other in the Euro final.Before you bring up the team excuse,the majority consensus is that Busquets is overrated and that De Rossi is far better.Also there were some claims that Marchisio was world class and even as good as Iniesta.
So Pirlo had excellent support which nullifies the team argument.
Xavi was face to face against Pirlo.Not only did he manage to nullify Pirlo,but Xavi also managed to put in a mesmerizing performance.

What's crude and baseless about it is that one player doesn't dictate the game like you're suggesting
Italy lost, and it wasn't because of Pirlo [only]
and Spain won, and dominated and it wasn't because of Xavi [only]
Real Madrid won the league last year and they beat Barcelona, does that mean everyone in their starting 11 is better than Barcelona's? By your logic, certainly. People call Chelsea's CL win a fluke, based on luck, but apparently, by your logic, they're simply the best team with Lampard easily being better than Xavi, am I wrong? How can I be when I'm simply inserting your own logic against you, so try and argue back against flawed logic when it can't be down without collapsing your own argument on top of yourself

Anyways, Pirlo was Italy's best player by a mile
In the group stage Italy scored 4 goals and Pirlo was responsible for 3 of them, assisting 2 and scoring 1
He bossed England and Germany and then the whole Italy team was outclassed and outplayed by Spain in the final

Gondov in 3....2.....1.....

Just waiting for franshise to come along and pawn RG and futbal for using stats to say xavi was better or does it only matter when its pirlo

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Just waiting for franshise to come along and pawn RG and futbal for using stats to say xavi was better or does it only matter when its pirlo

I was explaining why Xavi was not shit in the italy game because People have this weird idea that pirlo destroyed Spain for some reason. Stats never tell the full story but i am backing my point using them for that particular game.

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Just waiting for franshise to come along and pawn RG and futbal for using stats to say xavi was better or does it only matter when its pirlo

lol is this a serious post?

You cant see the obvious difference no? Really?

Epoto wrote:

The Franchise wrote:First of all, everyones post here is bias. Dont be so niave.

Second, I am not talking about peoples bias post. I am talking about posts lacking in logic.

If someone wants to be bias, then thats normal, but to say factually inaccuarate things, or things lacking the correct perspective, then obviously thats different.

Thirdly, his passing is in my opinion..its an opinion and I could back it up.

I would like someone to try and back up Xavi being a nobody before Pep, or trying to justify the use of stats for two players playing different positions.

Finally, my recent post was only made to say, Alex's post wasnt that bad in comparison to some of the others being mentioned. My intention is not to criticise anyone, rather protect someone, because it was unfair.

Not really , unless you be Barcelona fan or juventus/Milan fan which as a matter of a fact you are (based on ur profile)

Nope. Your also bias. The better Pirlo looks, the better Serie A/Italy looks. Im sure you have no intrest in that though.

what difference lol? futbol is basically arguing xavi played better becuase spain had better possession stats and territory (leading to more "key passes"). Reverse the roles and xavis stats would decrease

The Franchise wrote:

Epoto wrote:

The Franchise wrote:First of all, everyones post here is bias. Dont be so niave.

Second, I am not talking about peoples bias post. I am talking about posts lacking in logic.

If someone wants to be bias, then thats normal, but to say factually inaccuarate things, or things lacking the correct perspective, then obviously thats different.

Thirdly, his passing is in my opinion..its an opinion and I could back it up.

I would like someone to try and back up Xavi being a nobody before Pep, or trying to justify the use of stats for two players playing different positions.

Finally, my recent post was only made to say, Alex's post wasnt that bad in comparison to some of the others being mentioned. My intention is not to criticise anyone, rather protect someone, because it was unfair.

Not really , unless you be Barcelona fan or juventus/Milan fan which as a matter of a fact you are (based on ur profile)

Nope. Your also bias. The better Pirlo looks, the better Serie A/Italy looks. Im sure you have no intrest in that though.

I think you're reading just a little too much into this
Not everyone has to have ulterior motives, ridiculous

Luca wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Epoto wrote:

The Franchise wrote:First of all, everyones post here is bias. Dont be so niave.

Second, I am not talking about peoples bias post. I am talking about posts lacking in logic.

If someone wants to be bias, then thats normal, but to say factually inaccuarate things, or things lacking the correct perspective, then obviously thats different.

Thirdly, his passing is in my opinion..its an opinion and I could back it up.

I would like someone to try and back up Xavi being a nobody before Pep, or trying to justify the use of stats for two players playing different positions.

Finally, my recent post was only made to say, Alex's post wasnt that bad in comparison to some of the others being mentioned. My intention is not to criticise anyone, rather protect someone, because it was unfair.

Not really , unless you be Barcelona fan or juventus/Milan fan which as a matter of a fact you are (based on ur profile)

Nope. Your also bias. The better Pirlo looks, the better Serie A/Italy looks. Im sure you have no intrest in that though.

I think you're reading just a little too much into this
Not everyone has to have ulterior motives, ridiculous

He's a big boy, I reckon he can handle himself dont you?

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:what difference lol? futbol is basically arguing xavi played better becuase spain had better possession stats and territory (leading to more "key passes"). Reverse the roles and xavis stats would decrease

Oh so you dont? OK then lol

The difference is RG isnt saying Xavi is a better player because he has better stats.

He is talking about one single game where the two teams (and therefore two players) came directly against one an another and he still recognized the fact stats dont tell the whole story.

RG is talking about one single performance head to head, not their entire careers.

The person I condemned for using stats used stats from different games, in different leagues to compare them overall.

So now, do you see the difference?

He only recognised stats dont tell the whole story after i wrote it. Seems like he moved moved the goal posts because it sure seemed like he was suggesting xavi had a better game before then.

If its okay to say one had a better game because of a statistical analysis, then its logical to say the same about a career. You realise a career is just a series of games?

And does not matter one bit whether the stats are from different games. Even when they are on the same pitch, they may as well be playing in different games, given their teams are very different