Crimson Special: Statistical Analysis of Creativity between Ronaldo and Messi

Ok, read this and understand. I am not posting this to to prove one is better than the other. The purpose of this is to show and possibly change some peoples views that Ronaldo is by and large selfish and not as team player.

By comparing him to Messi which I believe to be one of the best final passes in the game today it shows an accurate representation of just where he stands. No point comparing him to anyone else, as I figured might as well throw him in the deep end and see how he stacks up.

Now before people start jumping up and down and screaming bloody murder, yes Messi has alot more assists than Ronaldo over the last three seasons but this looks beyond that and purely at the chances and creativity of both players.

Now I went through three years game by game to make sure every statistic is correct using whoscored and opta as my sources with ESPN for clarification



Ok key passes is pretty self explanatory, as I have said in the past it is the final pass before someone takes a shot. In this regard Ronaldo stacks up pretty well. He in the past three seasons has created as many chances for his team mates as Messi 1.9 chances created per game compared to Messi's 2.0. A stat I doubt anyone would have guessed before coming into this thread.

Next up we have Messi's bread and butter, the throughball this stat shows the difference in playing styles as well as positions more than any other. Messi quite often playing through the middle has more of a chance to play the throughball than Ronaldo does cutting in diagonally on the wing, which shows the discrepancy of 114 played vs Messi's 267. But the % difference of just 4% shows Ronaldo isn't as bad in this area as alot of people make him out to be. In fact from the 2009/2010 season to the current season Ronaldo has managed to improve his completed throughballs almost 20%, which helped improve his overall percentage considerably to the 29.82% you see above.

Messi though is undoubtedly the master in this area playing through 3 balls per game compared to Ronaldo who manges just over one per game. Quite amazing on Messi's behalf.

Onto the touches per game, quite unsurprisingly Messi touches the ball alot more than Ronaldo does due mostly in part to the contrasting style of Barcelona and Real Madrid, not to mention the fact that Messi is as it stands is the best dribbler of the ball in the world. When it comes down to pure chances created Ronaldo is slightly more efficient with his touches on the ball, this would probably be because of Messi's tendency to look for that killer pass more often in the throughball which is much harder to complete, more than 20 touches less per throughball attempt for Messi. Again amazing on Messi's behalf. But overall Ronaldo does not get left behind in this area.

Passes per game is the next statistical criteria and again as mentioned above no surprise that Messi averages more passes per game than Ronaldo again due to the contrasting styles of the two teams. But again it just validates the same thing again. Ronaldo a little more clinical with his passes and Messi opting for the harder option of the throughball more often than not, mostly due to the playstyle and position played by Messi. Again Messi destroys Ronaldo in the throughball category but this was well established in the beginning but when it comes down to pure creativity Ronaldo again I don't feel is left behind by Messi.

Now this last two stats I just threw in for giggles and abit of fun. But my oh my at Messi's numbers.

These two numbers are the overall percentage and contribution to key passes and throughballs compared to the total teams numbers over the last three seasons.

As you can see Messi contributes to 26.72% of Barcelona's throughballs over the last three seasons. To me that's a mind blowing number and really categorises his importance in the middle and final third of the pitch to the overall play of Barcelona. And then through that you see he contributes to just over 15% of all the chances created at Barcelona over the last three seasons, again to me that's an astronomical number and goes to validate the importance that Messi is to Barcelona (like we did not already know that).

As for Ronaldo his numbers are not quite as impressive but again I feel that's down to the different role he plays and the different style of play at Real Madrid. Still though he has managed to contribute to almost 12% of all Real Madrid's chances created over the last three seasons, in a team consisting of Guti, Ozil and Di MAria and Xabi, that's not a bad effort. And to go with that over 15% of the teams throughballs over the past three seasons as well. For a player not known for this area in his game that's a pretty big number.

In the last two areas we can see that overall to their respective teams Messi is alot more important to the overall creative play of Barcelona than what Ronaldo is to Real Madrid, but that is to be expected.

Well that's it, give your thoughts and opinions and please please don't troll this thread, it's simply just to give Ronaldo a little more credit where I felt he was due.

It's 10:30am and I havn't slept in two days so let me know if some of my sentences don't make sense lol.

Enjoy!

Crimon Impressive statistic I admit, I have different views about those 2 now. But please for your health sake, get some sleep buddy.

+ rep for effort- post like this is amazing. And this is coming from a self professed stats hater. Thanks crimson.

I was amazed at Ronaldos key passes per game/ key pass total. That's more than I thought, but I guess being in the final third the majority of the game does that, but I thought Messi would have a lot more in this category as well as in through ball etc etc.

This does back up the fact that everyone knows which is that Messi is a better passer and creative player, but I am a little surprised at Ronaldo's numbers, he doesn't seem so selfish with these numbers, although obviously still more than Messi.

CBarca wrote:+ rep for effort- post like this is amazing. And this is coming from a self professed stats hater. Thanks crimson.

I was amazed at Ronaldos key passes per game/ key pass total. That's more than I thought, but I guess being in the final third the majority of the game does that, but I thought Messi would have a lot more in this category as well as in through ball etc etc.

This does back up the fact that everyone knows which is that Messi is a better passer and creative player, but I am a little surprised at Ronaldo's numbers, he doesn't seem so selfish with these numbers, although obviously still more than Messi.

Yeah obviously

I'm still amazed at Messi's contribution to Barcelona's overall creativity. Quite amazing numbers.

Crimson wrote:

CBarca wrote:+ rep for effort- post like this is amazing. And this is coming from a self professed stats hater. Thanks crimson.

I was amazed at Ronaldos key passes per game/ key pass total. That's more than I thought, but I guess being in the final third the majority of the game does that, but I thought Messi would have a lot more in this category as well as in through ball etc etc.

This does back up the fact that everyone knows which is that Messi is a better passer and creative player, but I am a little surprised at Ronaldo's numbers, he doesn't seem so selfish with these numbers, although obviously still more than Messi.

Yeah obviously

I'm still amazed at Messi's contribution to Barcelona's overall creativity. Quite amazing numbers.

True, 26.72% is a ridiculous number. Makes me worried about Messi getting injured.

And get some sleep man

Edit: Who the fk is neg repping crimson? Seriously

Good job mate.

Doesn't particularly change my views on anything but its good to see the numbers and Messi

its hard work to do and kudos to you for this. i dont know if you were objective while doing these stats because every where i see you praising and defending CR like a crazy fan. maybe a barca fan analyzed these stats the margin between players would be huge . its hard to watch all games in last 3 years and analyze, but i dont know..at the end messi won though as expected

Hate it when peeps neg rep these sorta posts. So i gave a + rep to even it out. But i wish i could give another coz it was a great post too. Well done Crim.




EDIT: Where do you even get all these stats man???

The Verminator wrote:Hate it when peeps neg rep these sorta posts. So i gave a + rep to even it out. But i wish i could give another coz it was a great post too. Well done Crim.




EDIT: Where do you even get all these stats man???

haha ty

and

Now I went through three years game by game to make sure every statistic is correct using whoscored and opta as my sources with ESPN for clarification

I never give neg rep if you meant me

Great work Crimson, but i feel like it would be cool to add a third party to see what another player does compare to those two.

Also, we need to get that neg rep thing sorted, why is it anonymous? people like to coward up behind it.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Great work Crimson, but i feel like it would be cool to add a third party to see what another player does compare to those two.

Also, we need to get that neg rep thing sorted, why is it anonymous? people like to coward up behind it.

Name a player and I'll do it

Fantastic post, who the f*ck neg repped that ?

I have to admit it was a lot closer than i imagined and was very interesting reading it.......

Now get some sleep man ffs

Crimson wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Great work Crimson, but i feel like it would be cool to add a third party to see what another player does compare to those two.

Also, we need to get that neg rep thing sorted, why is it anonymous? people like to coward up behind it.

Name a player and I'll do it

since there is virtually no one that scores as much it's a bit hard.

But i was thinking about players like Rooney for example. the kind of player that drives his team offense. Nerman?

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Great work Crimson, but i feel like it would be cool to add a third party to see what another player does compare to those two.

Also, we need to get that neg rep thing sorted, why is it anonymous? people like to coward up behind it.

Name a player and I'll do it

since there is virtually no one that scores as much it's a bit hard.

But i was thinking about players like Rooney for example. the kind of player that drives his team offense. Nerman?

Rooney is way behind creatively compared to these two so it wouldn't work and no one records Brasil's Serie A that in depth lmao

Could you do Benzema's from the start of 2011 to now?

I'd also be intested in other guys like Suarez,Ibra etc...

Ye would be interesting to see how other players like, rooney,ibra, drogba and maybe eto'o stack up vs these 2.

You failed to mention, that your stats are from league only. This year particurarly Messi has had more games between league games. 6 games more, or about 450 minutes, which translates almost 1/3 of the resting weeks gone. Which then means less energy, less composure to league games on average. That is why comparing only league games skew the numbers little for C.Ronaldo.

Whoscored also lists same stats for UCL-games, so you could do the same for those also. Here is throughball comparison for same perioid in UCL.

Great work, are you the person with the opta account for the real madrid stats? Anyways, that's a good piece of analysis.

jiopsi wrote:You failed to mention, that your stats are from league only. This year particurarly Messi has had more games between league games. 6 games more, or about 450 minutes, which translates almost 1/3 of the resting weeks gone. Which then means less energy, less composure to league games on average. That is why comparing only league games skew the numbers little for C.Ronaldo.

Whoscored also lists same stats for UCL-games, so you could do the same for those also. Here is throughball comparison for same perioid in UCL.

Yes its for league only because for the purpose of statistical analysis you want to use a comparative study that is fair and equal.

In La Liga they play roughly the same amount of games and the same opposition which can not be said for any other competition. So your stats are useless.

Please keep this on track and stop ruining all my threads.....

I thought you had an understanding of statistics?

Crimson wrote:

jiopsi wrote:You failed to mention, that your stats are from league only. This year particurarly Messi has had more games between league games. 6 games more, or about 450 minutes, which translates almost 1/3 of the resting weeks gone. Which then means less energy, less composure to league games on average. That is why comparing only league games skew the numbers little for C.Ronaldo.

Whoscored also lists same stats for UCL-games, so you could do the same for those also. Here is throughball comparison for same perioid in UCL.

Yes its for league only because for the purpose of statistical analysis you want to use a comparative study that is fair and equal.

In La Liga they play roughly the same amount of games and the same opposition which can not be said for any other competition. So your stats are useless.

Please keep this on track and stop ruining all my threads.....

I thought you had an understanding of statistics?

There is also a ton of variables in one league scenario, form, energy levels, injury levels and tactics for opponents and own teams. And like I said, the games between those games affects the league stats also. Messi needs to fly SA to play Nt-games etc. Everything in a season is connected to one of the other in some degree.

For a perfect scenario, you should use every game of the season, in every competition to get the best results. You failed to mention this skew, league only, so you are obviously a biased person, or just plain ignorant.

Great stuff and worth the wait and I can only apologize that some people feel to neg rep.

Anyway, unless I have misread something I have one issue.

The difficultly of all these categories are not taken into consideration. Let me try and explain with this hypothetical situation.

We are in a classic Madrid counter attack situation, Cristiano sprints down the left side and Alonso sprays a pass out to him while he is on the run. Once he recieves the ball he has Benzema streaking through the middle with 2 centerbacks either side of him and at the back post is Di Maria who is goalside of the nearest man, the leftback. Ozil is arriving late and is tracked by an opponants defensive midfielder.

Once Cristiano reaches the box on the left hand channel, he checks back onto his right foot as the nearest centerback has moved from Benzema leaving the other centerback to cover. As this action moves on, Di Maria cuts across the box while Benzema drifts towards the 2nd post. The crossover moment causes space to open up and Cristiano plays a simple ball across the face of the goal for Benzema to tap in. Cristiano recieves a key pass and a throughball score for this I assume?


Now, at Barcelona. Xavi has the ball on the half wayline, the patient build up which is classic Barca means the opponant has 8 men directly between Xavi and the goal. Messi drops deep, taking a centerback with him out of position. Xavi passes him the ball with his back to goal, 40m out. He turns and accelerates in one touch, his defender at his hip. A secondary helper, a midfielder comes over to help and Messi lays off a pass to Iniesta and then recieves it back via the 1-2 and is accelerating and closing in 30m from goal. As this happens, Sanchez on the leftwing has kept width while looking to get in behind to add depth over the top. Cesc has seen the Messi dash and makes a run in between the leftback and the centerback who has remained. Messi plays a classic ball in between that gap for Cesc finishes with a low drive.


Both are pretty typical goals from each side. While it would be niave to say both sides goals are always like this, indeed I believe those two actions are typical of both teams.

For me, while they show the big differences between the two styles, the degree of difficult for Messi is so much higher. Now, thats not Cristiano's fault, but it is something to take note of. Cristiano isnt the only player who could make that play he made, but Messi usually is the only one on the planet who is capable of such a move.

Now thats just a simpistic view but I think its a relevant point. Please excuse me if I have looked over something in the OP, my excuse is it late lol.



However, I know your point was not actually to compare the two, rather shine a light on Cristiano and discuss some perhaps misconceptions. Which I commend you for and if I could kudos I would.

The problem I have is, I can see what Cristiano can do and what he does do and its the general lack of difficulty in his plays which leads to the view of him..at least from me anyway. I can see, in raw numbers and such he is effective and does produce but I cant get past the difficulty. When I watch him play, I very rarely am wowed by him and I am even more rarely see something I cant imagine other players doing other than of course the raw goalscoring numbers amassed over the course of the year and naturally the consistency needed for it.

billionmillion wrote:I never give neg rep if you meant me

Nah didn't mean you man. I just mean peeps in general who neg rep posts just coz they don't agree or they are praising a player/team they don't like. I always end up + repping the 'victim' if you will, just to even it out. And even give + rep even if its already evened out......Teach them a lesson

I don't think these statistics has showed me anything becouse I'm fully aware he has given up on his selfishness this season but only in smaller games.

I'm sure you've heard the critique that he forces himself into the game and completly flops, and ignores teammates in better positions than him.

We saw a Ronaldo like that in Copa and if he keeps it up then I'd call him a team player becouse he also was very very lazy with his defending before but showed he can run miles for the club if you want him to.

Let's hope he continues like this, it would help him alot as a person and a player imo.