How highly do you rate Mourinho as a tactician?

Not as a manager, but as a tactician.

Not so highly, obviously not bad though. He is a good tactican, but not great or anything "special".

Pep has outdone him far too often now and some of his own decisions in those games have been suspect too.

The only time I felt he really did a good job vs Pep was Inter 1st leg, but its also true Pep made a rare mistake and not having Iniesta did him no favours with that mistake.

I think he is overrated as a tactician. He is only a world class manager because of his man management skills.

Being beneath Pep is no bad thing, seems everyone is in the past 3 years.

I would put Mou in the top 5, probably couldn't name more than 4 managers I consider higher.

These are the coaches that i think are better than Mourinho tactically.

1. Pep Guardiola
2. Arsene Wenger
3. Joachim Löw

The Franchise wrote:Not so highly, obviously not bad though. He is a good tactican, but not great or anything "special".

Pep has outdone him far too often now and some of his own decisions in those games have been suspect too.

The only time I felt he really did a good job vs Pep was Inter 1st leg, but its also true Pep made a rare mistake and not having Iniesta did him no favours with that mistake.

In my opinion, Pep hasn't "outdone" Mou, in a sense that Pep's tactics are way superior. I just think Pep has the better set of players with him. I think Mou's tactics even the last classico was going to plan at 1-0. However, when you defenders make such silly mistakes like Pepe's setpiece (he is normally good at it). Then bad positioning for the second goal, I do feel bad for the manager. Sure we can say ohh...he should have trained them well enough etc..but at the end of the day the tactician only provides the structure in the team. It is upto the players to win you games. The fact is that Barca's players consistently perform in El classico, whereas the Real players don't.

This may not mean much but to us neutrals, who would anyone have to coach a team like Levante, Stoke, Swansea, or any mid table teams? I think I would think (this is all hypothetical and my opinion) but Mou will do a better job at most of those jobs.

I actually get disappointed with many of Pep's tactics tbh. Not saying he is a bad tactician, but on a rating of 1-10, I would probably give him a 7 at most. I feel he is a great motivator, also a great manager but I think it is his players like Messi and Iniesta who consistently get him out of trouble. In both classico, I atleast felt that it was them to got themselves out of trouble, although Pep's motivational speech definitely did its part. Whereas, I can recall even in the last few weeks, Mou had to make subs against Malaga, Mallorca, whereas his subs actually scored and assisted etc. Maybe Mou has a better bench? Sure. But Pep also has superior first team players. Also when you have Messi in your team, life is not too bad is it?



Also I voted top 3 for Mou. Definitely not a master, I dont think most of the coaches are anyway.

El Pipita wrote:These are the coaches that i think are better than Mourinho tactically.

1. Pep Guardiola
2. Arsene Wenger
3. Joachim Löw

not sure if serious

Why is Low a better tactician than Mourinho?

Benitez is better than him tactically IMO( proved as such on a few occasions), Mourinho is a good tactician but not a great one....

halamadrid2 wrote:

El Pipita wrote:These are the coaches that i think are better than Mourinho tactically.

1. Pep Guardiola
2. Arsene Wenger
3. Joachim Löw

not sure if serious

id like to see mou mange arsenal

supra969 wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:

El Pipita wrote:These are the coaches that i think are better than Mourinho tactically.

1. Pep Guardiola
2. Arsene Wenger
3. Joachim Löw

not sure if serious

id like to see mou mange arsenal

would do much better than Wenger, would make them win PL in his second season

Pellegrini is a better tactician than Wenger much better in fact

Mr.Hendrix wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Not so highly, obviously not bad though. He is a good tactican, but not great or anything "special".

Pep has outdone him far too often now and some of his own decisions in those games have been suspect too.

The only time I felt he really did a good job vs Pep was Inter 1st leg, but its also true Pep made a rare mistake and not having Iniesta did him no favours with that mistake.

In my opinion, Pep hasn't "outdone" Mou, in a sense that Pep's tactics are way superior. I just think Pep has the better set of players with him. I think Mou's tactics even the last classico was going to plan at 1-0. However, when you defenders make such silly mistakes like Pepe's setpiece (he is normally good at it). Then bad positioning for the second goal, I do feel bad for the manager. Sure we can say ohh...he should have trained them well enough etc..but at the end of the day the tactician only provides the structure in the team. It is upto the players to win you games. The fact is that Barca's players consistently perform in El classico, whereas the Real players don't.

This may not mean much but to us neutrals, who would anyone have to coach a team like Levante, Stoke, Swansea, or any mid table teams? I think I would think (this is all hypothetical and my opinion) but Mou will do a better job at most of those jobs.

I actually get disappointed with many of Pep's tactics tbh. Not saying he is a bad tactician, but on a rating of 1-10, I would probably give him a 7 at most. I feel he is a great motivator, also a great manager but I think it is his players like Messi and Iniesta who consistently get him out of trouble. In both classico, I atleast felt that it was them to got themselves out of trouble, although Pep's motivational speech definitely did its part. Whereas, I can recall even in the last few weeks, Mou had to make subs against Malaga, Mallorca, whereas his subs actually scored and assisted etc. Maybe Mou has a better bench? Sure. But Pep also has superior first team players. Also when you have Messi in your team, life is not too bad is it?



Also I voted top 3 for Mou. Definitely not a master, I dont think most of the coaches are anyway.

Pep has clearly outdone him.

The nulification of Ozil, the nulification of Cristiano (though that isnt hard really), the freeing up of Dani Alves, the 351 which clearly Mou had no answer too..there is more, but it would take me actually going back to look to remember them and im too lazy for it.

I think its easy to cast off Pep´s work as "better players" but clearly, his use of his players has consistently been better.

The tactics werent going well at 1-0, just because they were winning. They hadnt made many chances, Barca had...its easy for the scoreline to hide the pattern of the game, but looking back, the pattern had already been set.

Again, its very easy to blame players "not showing up" at Classico, but there is are reasons for it, tactics being one of them.

Maybe you need to look closer at what Pep is doing, frankly, he is one of the best in the game tactically. Classico´s and otherwise.

people that rated below 10 i challenge you to name 11 better tacticians

just curious to see.

The Franchise wrote:

Mr.Hendrix wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Not so highly, obviously not bad though. He is a good tactican, but not great or anything "special".

Pep has outdone him far too often now and some of his own decisions in those games have been suspect too.

The only time I felt he really did a good job vs Pep was Inter 1st leg, but its also true Pep made a rare mistake and not having Iniesta did him no favours with that mistake.

In my opinion, Pep hasn't "outdone" Mou, in a sense that Pep's tactics are way superior. I just think Pep has the better set of players with him. I think Mou's tactics even the last classico was going to plan at 1-0. However, when you defenders make such silly mistakes like Pepe's setpiece (he is normally good at it). Then bad positioning for the second goal, I do feel bad for the manager. Sure we can say ohh...he should have trained them well enough etc..but at the end of the day the tactician only provides the structure in the team. It is upto the players to win you games. The fact is that Barca's players consistently perform in El classico, whereas the Real players don't.

This may not mean much but to us neutrals, who would anyone have to coach a team like Levante, Stoke, Swansea, or any mid table teams? I think I would think (this is all hypothetical and my opinion) but Mou will do a better job at most of those jobs.

I actually get disappointed with many of Pep's tactics tbh. Not saying he is a bad tactician, but on a rating of 1-10, I would probably give him a 7 at most. I feel he is a great motivator, also a great manager but I think it is his players like Messi and Iniesta who consistently get him out of trouble. In both classico, I atleast felt that it was them to got themselves out of trouble, although Pep's motivational speech definitely did its part. Whereas, I can recall even in the last few weeks, Mou had to make subs against Malaga, Mallorca, whereas his subs actually scored and assisted etc. Maybe Mou has a better bench? Sure. But Pep also has superior first team players. Also when you have Messi in your team, life is not too bad is it?



Also I voted top 3 for Mou. Definitely not a master, I dont think most of the coaches are anyway.

Pep has clearly outdone him.

The nulification of Ozil, the nulification of Cristiano (though that isnt hard really), the freeing up of Dani Alves, the 351 which clearly Mou had no answer too..there is more, but it would take me actually going back to look to remember them and im too lazy for it.

I think its easy to cast off Pep´s work as "better players" but clearly, his use of his players has consistently been better.

The tactics werent going well at 1-0, just because they were winning. They hadnt made many chances, Barca had...its easy for the scoreline to hide the pattern of the game, but looking back, the pattern had already been set.

Again, its very easy to blame players "not showing up" at Classico, but there is are reasons for it, tactics being one of them.

Maybe you need to look closer at what Pep is doing, frankly, he is one of the best in the game tactically. Classico´s and otherwise.

Obviously I dont mean to say Pep is not a good tactician, but nullification of Ozil is credited to Pep? Or it is that Barca are amazing at keeping and retaining the ball, they have possession for 60/70% of the game, on the other hand, Ozil needs the ball to suceed. If Ozil doesn't get the ball, he will get nullified. And clearly Mou doesnt get enough of the posession from Barca. I credit that to the playing style of Barca, and obviously Pep is a big part of it. I guess I can see your point.

My point was that the La Liga classico, Madrid could have won if Ronaldo had scored those chances (obviosuly what ifs) but they didnt. Thus why does Pep gets credit for nullifying Ronaldo in that game? Did he nullify Ronaldo? No, because he had many chances to win the game. He didn't because of some mental block or just having a poor game.

My point was that the difference between winning and losing is not always tactics, infact it is often a moment of genius or a mistake from another team. And Barca has far superior players in that aspect, thus the reason why Pep is doing so well. Not the only reason, ofc not, but one huge reason.

For those who voted Mastermind, I have one word for you. Trapattoni.

Wenger?

definitely second best to guardiola, i'd like to see bielsa have a shot with a big team to compare him... voted top 3 since i barely watch football outside la liga

as far as i'm concerned, mourinho's tactic is to throw money at everyone until he has a better squad than everyone else in the league, then steamroll through the league because you have a better squad than everyone else

inb4 porto and inter - benitez had more than two great cup runs, if mourinho was the jesus of tactics like half of this forum treats him, he would have had at least one cl with the chelsea side that was raping epl for three years

halamadrid2 wrote:

supra969 wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:

El Pipita wrote:These are the coaches that i think are better than Mourinho tactically.

1. Pep Guardiola
2. Arsene Wenger
3. Joachim Löw

not sure if serious

id like to see mou mange arsenal

would do much better than Wenger, would make them win PL in his second season

Pellegrini is a better tactician than Wenger much better in fact

LOL

I would love to see Mourinho work in a 15m Budget per year.

Pellegrini :lucas:

Mr.Hendrix wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Mr.Hendrix wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Not so highly, obviously not bad though. He is a good tactican, but not great or anything "special".

Pep has outdone him far too often now and some of his own decisions in those games have been suspect too.

The only time I felt he really did a good job vs Pep was Inter 1st leg, but its also true Pep made a rare mistake and not having Iniesta did him no favours with that mistake.

In my opinion, Pep hasn't "outdone" Mou, in a sense that Pep's tactics are way superior. I just think Pep has the better set of players with him. I think Mou's tactics even the last classico was going to plan at 1-0. However, when you defenders make such silly mistakes like Pepe's setpiece (he is normally good at it). Then bad positioning for the second goal, I do feel bad for the manager. Sure we can say ohh...he should have trained them well enough etc..but at the end of the day the tactician only provides the structure in the team. It is upto the players to win you games. The fact is that Barca's players consistently perform in El classico, whereas the Real players don't.

This may not mean much but to us neutrals, who would anyone have to coach a team like Levante, Stoke, Swansea, or any mid table teams? I think I would think (this is all hypothetical and my opinion) but Mou will do a better job at most of those jobs.

I actually get disappointed with many of Pep's tactics tbh. Not saying he is a bad tactician, but on a rating of 1-10, I would probably give him a 7 at most. I feel he is a great motivator, also a great manager but I think it is his players like Messi and Iniesta who consistently get him out of trouble. In both classico, I atleast felt that it was them to got themselves out of trouble, although Pep's motivational speech definitely did its part. Whereas, I can recall even in the last few weeks, Mou had to make subs against Malaga, Mallorca, whereas his subs actually scored and assisted etc. Maybe Mou has a better bench? Sure. But Pep also has superior first team players. Also when you have Messi in your team, life is not too bad is it?



Also I voted top 3 for Mou. Definitely not a master, I dont think most of the coaches are anyway.

Pep has clearly outdone him.

The nulification of Ozil, the nulification of Cristiano (though that isnt hard really), the freeing up of Dani Alves, the 351 which clearly Mou had no answer too..there is more, but it would take me actually going back to look to remember them and im too lazy for it.

I think its easy to cast off Pep´s work as "better players" but clearly, his use of his players has consistently been better.

The tactics werent going well at 1-0, just because they were winning. They hadnt made many chances, Barca had...its easy for the scoreline to hide the pattern of the game, but looking back, the pattern had already been set.

Again, its very easy to blame players "not showing up" at Classico, but there is are reasons for it, tactics being one of them.

Maybe you need to look closer at what Pep is doing, frankly, he is one of the best in the game tactically. Classico´s and otherwise.

Obviously I dont mean to say Pep is not a good tactician, but nullification of Ozil is credited to Pep? Or it is that Barca are amazing at keeping and retaining the ball, they have possession for 60/70% of the game, on the other hand, Ozil needs the ball to suceed. If Ozil doesn't get the ball, he will get nullified. And clearly Mou doesnt get enough of the posession from Barca. I credit that to the playing style of Barca, and obviously Pep is a big part of it. I guess I can see your point.

My point was that the La Liga classico, Madrid could have won if Ronaldo had scored those chances (obviosuly what ifs) but they didnt. Thus why does Pep gets credit for nullifying Ronaldo in that game? Did he nullify Ronaldo? No, because he had many chances to win the game. He didn't because of some mental block or just having a poor game.

My point was that the difference between winning and losing is not always tactics, infact it is often a moment of genius or a mistake from another team. And Barca has far superior players in that aspect, thus the reason why Pep is doing so well. Not the only reason, ofc not, but one huge reason.

Pepe does nothing but foul Messi in the midfield and people still want to claim its a great tactical move that "works". Ozil is shut off everygame and yes, possession is the reason, but how about the job Busquets does to shut him off, but also play centerback in the same game? Or that pushing up of the fullbacks which drag the wings high up the pitch and leave Ozil with no forward or even sideways passing options? These are Pep tactics which are being carried out.

In that 3-1, Pep constantly made changes in the game, the team was adjusting as the game went on and players were shifting all over the place for the ideal line up. What did Mou do? Nothing...he kept the same 4231 and changed a player for a player.

I dont have to go into what ifs, I think you know that already. Indeed, maybe Pep shouldnt get credit for shutting off Cristiano, he is always useless in big games. But, his move to free Alves while still nulifying Cristiano by changing to 351 was fantastic and he did that without sacrificing defensive strength in other areas. These are all tactical moves.

Pep is doing well because he has great players? Of course, but you can give that arguement to every great tactican, then where would we be?

Personally, I see Pep making tactical decisions game after game, and tactical changes season after season and in head to head games he constantly has gotten the better of his rivals. Yes, Barca have the best players, but that isnt ever enough, nearly every game that are won and lost have a tactical element behind the result.

deezydeez wrote:people that rated below 10 i challenge you to name 10 better tacticians

just curious to see.

im just going to go ahead and bump this since now 6 people have voted him outside of the top 10 yet no one has put any proof or list to justify an answer

deezydeez wrote:

deezydeez wrote:people that rated below 10 i challenge you to name 10 better tacticians

just curious to see.

im just going to go ahead and bump this since now 6 people have voted him outside of the top 10 yet no one has put any proof or list to justify an answer

in no particular order

Pep
Trap
Fergie
Mazzari
Guidolin
Benitez
Hiddink
Benitez
Capello
Ancelotti
Wenger

unquestionably top 5

Id probably put him top 3 personally

freeing up alves????

i never see the guy ffs.... if thats why he is rated as supposedly the "best" RB in the world give me Elisue any day of the week

and to those gunner fans....

Pelle has been working with 0 cash mate... even at Malaga all those players have a couple of years left before they switch to golf

and Mou doesnt need much money... he would just steal all experienced players from top teams for virtually nothing.... and if he wasnt satisfied with them he would play a Portuguese guy who isnt starting for your B-team

Mou got Ozil for £10, come back when Wenger can pull off such a move... even 'arry get better players than you ffs

if Wenger came to Real Madrid he would just tell Perez that there is a recession and that he needs to save money so he will go shopping in some random League 4 side in France and say that top 6 is priority and if higher then thats just a bonus

I dont like Mou, but I dont think Wenger is a better tactican to be honest.

Nor Fergie.