Re: Is it time to replace Wenger ?

by Raptorgunner Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:04 pm

aleumdance wrote:
GoonerJay29 wrote:Why should we adopt American style coaching when nobody else does? What makes that method so revolutionary and better than everything else?

Two defeats and we're back to this again. Question him if you want to, but it's January, not May, and we're four points from fourth, not fourty.

I guarantee that as soon as we string together some wins again, talk of moving on from Wenger will come to an abrupt halt.

you clearly don't watch NFL to know how effective this is, lets be honest at arsenal our defending can be atrocious, don't even get me started on PREDICTABLE offensive plays, even when we win..

I watch NFL and I do agree, but what is the point to have defensive coach if all our defenders are injured.

We lost today because of the midfield players mainly Walcott and Ramsey.

by REWB Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:10 pm

i dont think we need a defensive coach, when all our defenders are fit we are very good defensively. we need to sort out the medical staff and we need wenger to buy players simple as that.

the number of good players we missed out on in the summer :facepalm:

just to try and convince nasri to stay, who wasn't even that good enough to replace cesc anyway :facepalm:

by Jay29 Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:16 pm

you clearly don't watch NFL to know how effective this is, lets be honest at arsenal our defending can be atrocious, don't even get me started on PREDICTABLE offensive plays, even when we win..

You're right. I don't watch NFL. However, there isn't a single football club who use that method, or have intentions of using those methods which is why I see it as a bit of a daft suggestion.

I guarantee it wont, you know why? because at the end the season we will be trophyless AGAIN. top4 or not. next season if he doesn't win anything and make us challenge i will wont him out. i will excuse him for this pathetic season as nobody predicted nasri to be such an ass in the summer.

Who gives a shit about trophies at the moment? Be honest now. At the start of the season, were you expecting us to challenege for the title of win the Champions League?

Top four is the aim. Has been since the start of the season.

Case in point though, when we were on that winning streak this season, were you questioning Wenger? Were there threads on moving on from him? No, there wasn't.

by Raptorgunner Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:20 pm

How much is Park getting paid at Arsenal? lol the guy does not get playing time even when we have half of the team injured and half not playing well at all.

We are are out of Carling cup so I am guessing will we see him play some friendlies in the summer time.

The good new is we will sign another Asian superstar who will help us back to winning ways, The Omani guy will
be our second Asian superstar. cheers

Ok jokes aside.

Do players ever get benched at Arsenal if game after game they perform like shit?

by Sushi Master Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:26 pm

Park was more a PR move than anything. A Madrid type purchase to open up the Asian market. He probably pays back his wages and transfer fee in shirts sold and the like, so I don't mind him. Still better than Chamakh. I thought he could play left wing and would have liked to see him there, but I guess Wenger doesn't trust in him that much.

IMO, a fully fit Arsenal can challenge for the title. Call me delusional or whatever, but it's totally possible in my mind.

It's always injuries hampering our progress, because on talent we've never been short Sad

by Eman Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:28 pm

The reasons we are currently suffering on the field are out of his control (injuries, poor decisions, loss of key playmakers in the summer, etc.) Maybe he hasn't always done everything right, but tbh from the day after the Man Utd game to today, I have agreed with just about everything he has done as a manager for this team. In Arsene I trust.

And I agree with Sushi, too.

by Raptorgunner Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:34 pm

Sushi Master wrote:Park was more a PR move than anything. A Madrid type purchase to open up the Asian market. He probably pays back his wages and transfer fee in shirts sold and the like, so I don't mind him. Still better than Chamakh. I thought he could play left wing and would have liked to see him there, but I guess Wenger doesn't trust in him that much.

IMO, a fully fit Arsenal can challenge for the title. Call me delusional or whatever, but it's totally possible in my mind.

It's always injuries hampering our progress, because on talent we've never been short

That is what I said when Park was signed but some people here said I was wrong and Park was bought to help out. How do we buy a player who cante get any minutes what is the point of buying him. I knew from day one he was bought for commercial and getting in too Asian market.

I actually dont mind Park I am sure he would do much better than some of the starters we have, I am just pissed he is not getting time to play. Park can play all over the place and he should be given some minutes.

Ramsey and Arshivan must be benched for the next game and Walcott should just take a the rest of year off.

I dont know how we can blame Wenger when few players are helping the opposition more than they help out Arsenal.

Its always looks like 10 vs 12 when we play.

by REWB Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:37 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:
you clearly don't watch NFL to know how effective this is, lets be honest at arsenal our defending can be atrocious, don't even get me started on PREDICTABLE offensive plays, even when we win..

You're right. I don't watch NFL. However, there isn't a single football club who use that method, or have intentions of using those methods which is why I see it as a bit of a daft suggestion.

I guarantee it wont, you know why? because at the end the season we will be trophyless AGAIN. top4 or not. next season if he doesn't win anything and make us challenge i will wont him out. i will excuse him for this pathetic season as nobody predicted nasri to be such an ass in the summer.

Who gives a shit about trophies at the moment? Be honest now. At the start of the season, were you expecting us to challenege for the title of win the Champions League?

Top four is the aim. Has been since the start of the season.

Case in point though, when we were on that winning streak this season, were you questioning Wenger? Were there threads on moving on from him? No, there wasn't.

i give a shit about trophies as i have high expect for my club, why wasnt it our aim to win the league and CL at the start of the season, why? whos fault is that? if wenger had brought the right players and maxed out the quality of our squad we would have had better expectations of our team. but he didnt and ended up panic buying which made our season terrible overall.

who cares about the freaking winning streak, goonerjay go and look at the league table, look were spurs are compared to us. oh so now we are accepting the fact spurs ffs SPURS have overtaken us and are a better than us? you keep accepting mediocrity.

by Raptorgunner Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:47 pm

RedEyesWhiteBeard wrote:

i give a shit about trophies as i have high expect for my club, why wasnt it our aim to win the league and CL at the start of the season, why? whos fault is that? if wenger had brought the right players and maxed out the quality of our squad we would have had better expectations of our team. but he didnt and ended up panic buying which made our season terrible overall.

who cares about the freaking winning streak, goonerjay go and look at the league table, look were spurs are compared to us. oh so now we are accepting the fact spurs ffs SPURS have overtaken us and are a better than us? you keep accepting mediocrity.

I know you are frustrated and cant stand what is going on, we all are on the same page. We cant really worry about other teams we must just focus on our team and get back to winning ways. We have so many players injured and its just not fair how we go through the same thing year after year.

Lets move on and hope next week we can get all 3 points.

by Sushi Master Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:48 pm

Panic buying?

Arteta: Starter from day 1, solid player who keeps our midfield ticking. Hard worker, very complete player.

Mertesacker: Pretty much eliminated our set piece defendind. Has some problems, sure, but was pushed right into the starting 11 from day 1. Has adapted faster than any other CB we've had, bar Vermaelen.

Benayoun: Good bench player, has actually scored winning goals and is only a loan, anyways.

Santos: Started off shakily, but then let his strengths be known. Assists, goals, raping left flanks and helping van Persie out a lot in scoring.

Gervinho: I know people here have mixed feelings, but I personally love his dribbling and is an extremely annoying player to mark. Also helps out VP with the goals.

Park: Ok, more of a PR buy but still better than Chamakh.

Campbell, Ox, Jenkinson were all youth talents expected to be slowly integrated into the team, but due to the injury crisis we've had to use them ahead of time. Not their fault at all.

I understand you are probably expecting heavier guys, superstars and the like, but please. All were sencible buys.

The board frakked up selling Nasri and Fabregas so late in the transfer window, I'll conceed that.

by djoe26 Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:52 pm

I dont blame Wenger for his tactics because he is best at it nor do i blame him for injuries to our players. But i do blame him for not buying one proven player. I dont know if its him or Arsenal's board but its really frustrating for us fans to see our local rivals go for proven player while we chase bargain players.

I dont think we will be challenging for title next season if things havnt changed. I know that we are missing some key players but we gotta sell the deadwoods.

by Jay29 Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:57 pm

RedEyesWhiteBeard wrote:
GoonerJay29 wrote:
you clearly don't watch NFL to know how effective this is, lets be honest at arsenal our defending can be atrocious, don't even get me started on PREDICTABLE offensive plays, even when we win..

You're right. I don't watch NFL. However, there isn't a single football club who use that method, or have intentions of using those methods which is why I see it as a bit of a daft suggestion.

I guarantee it wont, you know why? because at the end the season we will be trophyless AGAIN. top4 or not. next season if he doesn't win anything and make us challenge i will wont him out. i will excuse him for this pathetic season as nobody predicted nasri to be such an ass in the summer.

Who gives a shit about trophies at the moment? Be honest now. At the start of the season, were you expecting us to challenege for the title of win the Champions League?

Top four is the aim. Has been since the start of the season.

Case in point though, when we were on that winning streak this season, were you questioning Wenger? Were there threads on moving on from him? No, there wasn't.

i give a shit about trophies as i have high expect for my club, why wasnt it our aim to win the league and CL at the start of the season, why? whos fault is that? if wenger had brought the right players and maxed out the quality of our squad we would have had better expectations of our team. but he didnt and ended up panic buying which made our season terrible overall.

who cares about the freaking winning streak, goonerjay go and look at the league table, look were spurs are compared to us. oh so now we are accepting the fact spurs ffs SPURS have overtaken us and are a better than us? you keep accepting mediocrity.

I pity the fans who claim to be "ambitious" or have "high expectations", because you're going to be unhappy for a very long time.

Here's the reality. Clubs cannot win trophies all the time. Clubs go through bad periods. We're going through a dogey period. Spurs are going through a good period.

You're putting words into my mouth. Where have I said it's okay to be below Spurs? Where have I said I accept mediocrity?

All I'm saying it's only January, not May. You don't where we're going to be May. I don't know where we're going to be in May. All this talk of medicority, of Wenger being sacked and evertying. It's prematrue. For all we know, we could end up third above Spurs.

And the way I see it, there are three things people can do. Go start a protest against the club if they want change so badly, go support another club if they want ambition and trophies so much, or at least wait until the end of the season before they start the Wenger-out talk.

I just cannot believe how fickle people can be.

by REWB Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:01 pm

Sushi Master wrote:Panic buying?

Arteta: Starter from day 1, solid player who keeps our midfield ticking. Hard worker, very complete player.

Mertesacker: Pretty much eliminated our set piece defendind. Has some problems, sure, but was pushed right into the starting 11 from day 1. Has adapted faster than any other CB we've had, bar Vermaelen.

Benayoun: Good bench player, has actually scored winning goals and is only a loan, anyways.

Santos: Started off shakily, but then let his strengths be known. Assists, goals, raping left flanks and helping van Persie out a lot in scoring.

Gervinho: I know people here have mixed feelings, but I personally love his dribbling and is an extremely annoying player to mark. Also helps out VP with the goals.

Park: Ok, more of a PR buy but still better than Chamakh.

Campbell, Ox, Jenkinson were all youth talents expected to be slowly integrated into the team, but due to the injury crisis we've had to use them ahead of time. Not their fault at all.

I understand you are probably expecting heavier guys, superstars and the like, but please. All were sencible buys.

The board frakked up selling Nasri and Fabregas so late in the transfer window, I'll conceed that.

first of all why is gervinho included? (he was brought at the start of the window)

the rest are ALL panic buy's its as simple as that, if wenger really wanted too, i know he could of brought better players than arteta, a better player than santos and a better player than mertesacker. there are better player out there than them, even if they have been decent with us. they were panic buys simple as that, if they weren't panic buys how comes wenger didnt aim for them at the start of the season like gervinho? just admit that wenger panic buy'd. he did well with the little time he had left so ill give him that.

by REWB Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:10 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:
RedEyesWhiteBeard wrote:
GoonerJay29 wrote:
you clearly don't watch NFL to know how effective this is, lets be honest at arsenal our defending can be atrocious, don't even get me started on PREDICTABLE offensive plays, even when we win..

You're right. I don't watch NFL. However, there isn't a single football club who use that method, or have intentions of using those methods which is why I see it as a bit of a daft suggestion.

I guarantee it wont, you know why? because at the end the season we will be trophyless AGAIN. top4 or not. next season if he doesn't win anything and make us challenge i will wont him out. i will excuse him for this pathetic season as nobody predicted nasri to be such an ass in the summer.

Who gives a shit about trophies at the moment? Be honest now. At the start of the season, were you expecting us to challenege for the title of win the Champions League?

Top four is the aim. Has been since the start of the season.

Case in point though, when we were on that winning streak this season, were you questioning Wenger? Were there threads on moving on from him? No, there wasn't.

i give a shit about trophies as i have high expect for my club, why wasnt it our aim to win the league and CL at the start of the season, why? whos fault is that? if wenger had brought the right players and maxed out the quality of our squad we would have had better expectations of our team. but he didnt and ended up panic buying which made our season terrible overall.

who cares about the freaking winning streak, goonerjay go and look at the league table, look were spurs are compared to us. oh so now we are accepting the fact spurs ffs SPURS have overtaken us and are a better than us? you keep accepting mediocrity.

I pity the fans who claim to be "ambitious" or have "high expectations", because you're going to be unhappy for a very long time.

Here's the reality. Clubs cannot win trophies all the time. Clubs go through bad periods. We're going through a dogey period. Spurs are going through a good period.

You're putting words into my mouth. Where have I said it's okay to be below Spurs? Where have I said I accept mediocrity?

All I'm saying it's only January, not May. You don't where we're going to be May. I don't know where we're going to be in May. All this talk of medicority, of Wenger being sacked and evertying. It's prematrue. For all we know, we could end up third above Spurs.

And the way I see it, there are three things people can do. Go start a protest against the club if they want change so badly, go support another club if they want ambition and trophies so much, or at least wait until the end of the season before they start the Wenger-out talk.

I just cannot believe how fickle people can be.

goonerjay, YOU CANT call fans fickle after 8 years without ONE piece silverware. YOU CANT. i dont understand were your getting this "fans are fickle from", when we were on that winning streak who was happy about it? i wasn't because i still knew that we weren't really playing well and scrapping 1-0 wins in a season where we were fighting to get top 4. stop calling me fickle, im not fickle. we are having a bad period but if nothing is done to stop this bad period than it go on FOREVER, before you know it we are a permanently a mid table team. im not question wenger this season, i just want to see what he does next season.

by Sushi Master Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:11 pm

Better than Arteta? Maybe, although I don't mind Arteta, him being a total boss and all.

Better than Mertesacker? We needed a huge tower, and those weren't really available. Samba was way too expensive, Cahill meh, and apart from that I don't think we could have gotten Hangeland. Vertonghen, maybe, but Mertesacker still was a solid buy. Good CBs are rare enough as it is.

LBs... hmm... maybe Cissokho or what? Not many good LBs available. Santos was really impressing me before his injury.

I do admit Wenger panic buyed, due to selling Cesc and Nasri so late, but they were great panic buys and I'm not really against any of them, since they are all solid or for a good reason.

What does annoy me, is simply that due to selling these guys so late, we could have had more time to bring in even more players, or perhaps to unload some more dead wood to help out clearing the wage bill. We are still an AM short and obviously a striker/winger. Thing is, we're not getting anyone good in January. All the big buys are done in the summer, unless big cash is thrown around which we don't have.

by REWB Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:15 pm

yup jan is finished thats for sure, cant see anyone coming of importance...

by Jay29 Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:19 pm

goonerjay, YOU CANT call fans fickle after 8 years without ONE piece silverware. YOU CANT. i dont understand were your getting this "fans are fickle from", when we were on that winning streak who was happy about it? i wasn't because i still knew that we weren't really playing well and scrapping 1-0 wins in a season where we were fighting to get top 4. stop calling me fickle, im not fickle. we are having a bad period but if nothing is done to stop this bad period than it go on FOREVER, before you know it we are a permanently a mid table team. im not question wenger this season, i just want to see what he does next season.

Yes, I can call fans fickle. Why? Let me put it like this.

Arsenal win a few games, look like title contenders = Wenger is a genius, players x and y are world class, the squad has good depth and we've a bright future.

Arsenal lose a few games in the same season = Wenger has lot the plot, needs to go, the board should be sacked, players x and y are either over-rated or will leave, the squad is average, the depth is crap, we're moving backwards and will be in mid-table obscurity soon.

And it happens. Every year. Without fail. A large percentage of fans - not just you - flip-flop between both mindsets. That's called being fickle.

Where have you been this season? After that defeat against Spurs, we won 8 in 11 games. The City game was our first defeat since that Spurs game. People were talking about us competing for the title again at that point. Wenger was hailed as a great manager.

Now people are moaning again, wanting Wenger out again. That's fickle behaviour.

The fact we're having this debate halfway through the season is even more ridiculous than the constnat changing of opinion.

by SamuelJayC Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:28 pm

A couple of years ago, or even last year for that matter, I would have laughed off a thread like this.

But I don't know why it is almost taboo to talk about replacing the great man any more.

I agree with all your points Nehpets.

However, I would like to know how much money Wenger has to spend every window, and more importantly in the current window and the summer window.

If he does have lots of cash (as the board constantly say "he has money to spend") then it would be weird as to why he is so unwilling to spend it.

by julias Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:30 pm

I'm fed up of this Wenger out talk

name one facking available manager than will come in and do a better job right now...instantly because this impatience suggests time is not allowed, if you cant stfu

who is actually out there and available NO FACKING ONE

and name these facking players everyone wants us to buy Messi? CR7? Benzema...I heard Vidic wants to move to Arsenal

live in the real - effing - world, this is not FM you're not going to get a player by bidding 5 times and negotiating his contract 5 times

Mourinho is not going to leave RM because we threw some money at him, Messi is not going to leave because the computer generated equation states that any offer above £50m will be accepted regardless of who the player is

I want to hear real suggestions not crap, I have no problem for Wenger to go upstairs and stop managing us but WTF is the point if there is no one to replace him?????

by Raptorgunner Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:36 pm

I really think its Wenger who does not want to go and spend, I truly believe if Wenger says to the board I want this player the board will say go head and buy it.

We spent 15 million on a young kid why cus Wenger wanted him.

There is one thing I hate about Wenger is that he keeps saying we have a big squad. Shocked

by SamuelJayC Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:44 pm

Javier Hernandez £7m
Nemanja Vidic £7m
Park Ji-Sung £4m

You don't have to break the bank to get quality as Wenger has shown many times, and some United examples above

by Jay29 Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:45 pm

The idea of replacing Wenger isn't taboo. We've had enough discussions on this to know there are enough people open to the idea. Though it may seem I'm vehemetly opposed to it, I'm also open to the idea.

The idea of sacking Wenger now, on the other hand, is perpostrous and would be a stupid decision for the board to make.

Replacing Wenger is a massive deal. By removing him from the helm, you are ending an era and the transition between him and the new manager will likely be rough and full of uncertainty. It's a huge decision the board will eventually need to make and not one that can be taken likely at all. They have to be sure it's the right thing to do.

The fans are never going to force a change, either. There are too many pro-Wenger fans for that to happen. Protests are cropping up but the majority of the fanbase dismiss those completely. Things are not that bad.

So in my eyes, the timing of the change is very important. Enough people need to be for the idea, so the new manager can work with the hopes and support of the fans behind him. That would make the transition a bit easier.

by julias Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:45 pm

the one thing I do hate about Wenger though is the fact that he is far too nice

why are people like Diaby and Arshavin still here? Walcott still starting? these guys take thousands of £ every week and dont even get the job done or improve

they dont even look like they are up for it and Wenger takes the flak for their sh!tness

be a effing boss and pass the blame onto them

by REWB Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:45 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:
goonerjay, YOU CANT call fans fickle after 8 years without ONE piece silverware. YOU CANT. i dont understand were your getting this "fans are fickle from", when we were on that winning streak who was happy about it? i wasn't because i still knew that we weren't really playing well and scrapping 1-0 wins in a season where we were fighting to get top 4. stop calling me fickle, im not fickle. we are having a bad period but if nothing is done to stop this bad period than it go on FOREVER, before you know it we are a permanently a mid table team. im not question wenger this season, i just want to see what he does next season.

Yes, I can call fans fickle. Why? Let me put it like this.

Arsenal win a few games, look like title contenders = Wenger is a genius, players x and y are world class, the squad has good depth and we've a bright future.

Arsenal lose a few games in the same season = Wenger has lot the plot, needs to go, the board should be sacked, players x and y are either over-rated or will leave, the squad is average, the depth is crap, we're moving backwards and will be in mid-table obscurity soon.

And it happens. Every year. Without fail. A large percentage of fans - not just you - flip-flop between both mindsets. That's called being fickle.

Where have you been this season? After that defeat against Spurs, we won 8 in 11 games. The City game was our first defeat since that Spurs game. People were talking about us competing for the title again at that point. Wenger was hailed as a great manager.

Now people are moaning again, wanting Wenger out again. That's fickle behaviour.

The fact we're having this debate halfway through the season is even more ridiculous than the constnat changing of opinion.

so just because i was keeping quit when we were struggling with one nil wins you think i was happy?

by Jay29 Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:46 pm

so just because i was keeping quit when we were struggling with one nil wins you think i was happy?

Are you the only Arsenal fan on this forum?

by REWB Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:48 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:

so just because i was keeping quit when we were struggling with one nil wins you think i was happy?

Are you the only Arsenal fan on this forum?

you said 'you included'.

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