How highly do you rate Germany's back 4

Of course they haven't, even Mertesacker is still young for a defender. So is Lahm. They'll hit prime at around 28, we can be lucky if Hummels, Höwedes, Boateng and Badstuber get, at least, less shaky by 23 to 24.

They're all really young and inexperienced, but they all have the technique and physicality needed to be world class one day, though so far Bundesliga-Hummels has been the closest to actually playing at WC level, though we've seen Boateng be genius at CB at the U21 Euros, which I'll never forget, and Höwedes has been Schalkes only consistently good player besides Raul and Neuer last season.

They're getting there. And Badstuber has his moments, as well as his distribution and decent free kicks.

Well, I'd just wish Hummels would stay consistent and convincing in international matches, too. So far he looks much less good in CL and NT than in the BL. And I guess Höwedes suffers the curse of versatility, too, as he is both played as CB and RB, just like Boateng and can't fully settle in. That Badstuber can't play LB was pretty obvious at the World Cup, but IMO he is a class CB. BTW, I prefer to see Boateng as RB, as he is a bit too dangerous with his tackles as CB. He almost cost Bayern two penalties against ManCity.

rwo power wrote:

babun1024 wrote:I only rate this back 4 for now:

Boateng----Höwedes---Hummels---Lahm

From 1-10, I'd rate them as 7 because they didn't play often enough together. BADstuber and Merte aren't anything near as fast or strong as these guys

Well, these are the top speeds of the BL CBs in 2011/2012 from Bundesliga.de:

Vorsah: 34,6 km/h
Höwedes: 33,7 km/h
Boateng: 32,9 km/h
Hummels: 32,7 km/h
Badstuber: 32,6 km/h
van Buyten: 32,2 km/h
Wollscheid: 31,9 km/h

Boateng, Hummels and Badstuber are not so far apart speed-wise, only Höwedes is a bit faster, but so far he lacks NT experience.

For CBs, acceleration is more important. Fullbacks need acceleration and full speed
From what I've watched from them, Boateng is the king of acceleration and change of direction, Vorsah comes second and Höwedes 3rd. BADstuber and Van Buyten are the least flexible when it comes to change of direction or acceleration
Hummels isn't good either when it comes to acceleration, still, he is a lot more physical than BADstuber and dominant in the air. If paired with a CB like Boateng/Höwedes, he'd have no problems

Boateng is sadly destined to the RB spot. Both Heynckes and Löw deploy him there. Kind of sad considering he was promised a CB spot, but meh, when you're playing you can't complain.

It's either Hummels or Badstuber, and someone else. Löw loves his ball playing CBs so those are the only 2 available. Höwedes for some reason is only played at RB.

In any case, he should know already what he's going to play, since the key to a good defense is consistency.

babun1024 wrote:For CBs, acceleration is more important. Fullbacks need acceleration and full speed
From what I've watched from them, Boateng is the king of acceleration and change of direction, Vorsah comes second and Höwedes 3rd. BADstuber and Van Buyten are the least flexible when it comes to change of direction or acceleration
Hummels isn't good either when it comes to acceleration, still, he is a lot more physical than BADstuber and dominant in the air. If paired with a CB like Boateng/Höwedes, he'd have no problems

I see what you do there.

But whatever you say, either Hummels or Höwedes first have to get past Stubsi in the NT anyway. Löw has his own ideas after all. (And Boateng will prolly be glued to his unloved RB position.)

rwo power wrote:

babun1024 wrote:For CBs, acceleration is more important. Fullbacks need acceleration and full speed
From what I've watched from them, Boateng is the king of acceleration and change of direction, Vorsah comes second and Höwedes 3rd. BADstuber and Van Buyten are the least flexible when it comes to change of direction or acceleration
Hummels isn't good either when it comes to acceleration, still, he is a lot more physical than BADstuber and dominant in the air. If paired with a CB like Boateng/Höwedes, he'd have no problems

I see what you do there.

But whatever you say, either Hummels or Höwedes first have to get past Stubsi in the NT anyway. Löw has his own ideas after all. (And Boateng will prolly be glued to his unloved RB position.)

I see no arguments so basically you agree with me... I highlighted the part that should bother you more

babun1024 wrote:I see no arguments so basically you agree with me... I highlighted the part that should bother you more

Well, what puzzles me more is why the coaches who play him don't seem to be worried about that. Any explanation for that?

rwo power wrote:

babun1024 wrote:I see no arguments so basically you agree with me... I highlighted the part that should bother you more

Well, what puzzles me more is why the coaches who play him don't seem to be worried about that. Any explanation for that?

I'm not someone who refers to someone else for opinions, I build my opinions myself. He sucks for the setup Germany has, Löw will be enlighted soon enough about the problem. Ball playing CB or not, defending comes first in big games, we won't win anything with BADstuber at CBs. Whether Löw or whoever selects him doesn't matter to me

babun1024 wrote:I'm not someone who refers to someone else for opinions, I build my opinions myself. He sucks for the setup Germany has, Löw will be enlighted soon enough about the problem. Ball playing CB or not, defending comes first in big games, we won't win anything with BADstuber at CBs. Whether Löw or whoever selects him doesn't matter to me

So how did Bayern set up their clean sheet record then in the beginning of the season when Stubsi play each match? He wasn't exactly bad then either. As you can see he works perfectly in the Bayern team, and he looks better in the NT than Hummels does.

rwo power wrote:

babun1024 wrote:I'm not someone who refers to someone else for opinions, I build my opinions myself. He sucks for the setup Germany has, Löw will be enlighted soon enough about the problem. Ball playing CB or not, defending comes first in big games, we won't win anything with BADstuber at CBs. Whether Löw or whoever selects him doesn't matter to me

So how did Bayern set up their clean sheet record then in the beginning of the season when Stubsi play each match? He wasn't exactly bad then either. As you can see he works perfectly in the Bayern team, and he looks better in the NT than Hummels does.

Come on RWO, no blasphemy please. Bayern protects their backline with mids and possession football. Every player presses for the ball when they lose it...
Oh, the great BADstuber... :lol!:
Put him in FC Köln for two months, he'll be bench material at most

babun1024 wrote:

rwo power wrote:

babun1024 wrote:I'm not someone who refers to someone else for opinions, I build my opinions myself. He sucks for the setup Germany has, Löw will be enlighted soon enough about the problem. Ball playing CB or not, defending comes first in big games, we won't win anything with BADstuber at CBs. Whether Löw or whoever selects him doesn't matter to me

So how did Bayern set up their clean sheet record then in the beginning of the season when Stubsi play each match? He wasn't exactly bad then either. As you can see he works perfectly in the Bayern team, and he looks better in the NT than Hummels does.

Come on RWO, no blasphemy please. Bayern protects their backline with mids and possession football. Every player presses for the ball when they lose it...
Oh, the great BADstuber... :lol!:
Put him in FC Köln for two months, he'll be bench material at most

Welcome back my man

rwo power wrote:Badstuber is usually a starter, not Hummels.

Badstuber is sucks, as usual he'll start one game then he'll be dropped

VivaStPauli wrote:I want this back four:

Boateng Höwedes Hummels Lahm

Though I can't decide which CB, Höwedes or Boateng, should play RB, but they're both better than our RBs.

And it's potentially a WC back four, they just need practice, practice, practice. Currently I'd say the back 4 are definitely Germany's weak link.

I totally agree with this, Badstuber sucks we all know that. Managers love him because of his story and attitude but on the pitch he sucks. Low might probably start him in the 1st and 2nd match but then he'll be dropped.


Boateng-Howedes-Hummels-Lahm.

Idrisozet wrote:I totally agree with this, Badstuber sucks we all know that. Managers love him because of his story and attitude but on the pitch he sucks. Low might probably start him in the 1st and 2nd match but then he'll be dropped.

walk in stubs's shoes

Idrisozet wrote:

rwo power wrote:Badstuber is usually a starter, not Hummels.

Badstuber is sucks, as usual he'll start one game then he'll be dropped

In the WC2010 he was dropped as he is no LB and it showed. Every since then he was a starter in the NT as CB. You just need to check the line-ups. ^^

Seriously? No Badstuber in the starting four? Wow....talk about being ignorant

its abit of a weak link to be honest but considering their attack, any other position would be a weak link
they do have great players but many of them dont show up
Hummels doesnt play well for them, he is 23 though
Badstuber is a bit of a reliability, Howedes is not great, Mertesacker is slow
but their main issue is the Left back position, Lahm is not a natural left back, he doesnt like playing there, Germany were great in 2010 and Lahm played at right back
they need a solid natural LB, Smelzer may be able to provide something but he was not too impressive in the last game he played for Germany

punkfusion1992 wrote:its abit of a weak link to be honest but considering their attack, any other position would be a weak link
they do have great players but many of them dont show up
Hummels doesnt play well for them, he is 23 though
Badstuber is a bit of a reliability, Howedes is not great, Mertesacker is slow
but their main issue is the Left back position, Lahm is not a natural left back, he doesnt like playing there, Germany were great in 2010 and Lahm played at right back
they need a solid natural LB, Smelzer may be able to provide something but he was not too impressive in the last game he played for Germany

Exactly that's the problem - Hummels, Schmelzer and Höwedes all weren't convincing (yet?) in the NT.

The only fix points that gave stability were Lahm (both as LB and RB, btw) and Badstuber (only as CB as he is definitely no LB as one could see in the WC2010).

Boateng as RB works okay - imo he is better used as RB even if he doesn't like it as he is too aggressive as CB - he almost caused two (!) penalties when he played CB against ManCity. So right now the best lineup is probably

Lahm - Badstuber - Hummels - Boateng

Höwedes can stand in both as CB and RB and Mertesacker is another CB option, even though I think it might be too risky to play Stubsi together with Merte. Schmelzer can be the backup on LB.

TBH Badstuber + Mertesacker are bad because they're too similar, but either of them can really be argued to deserve a starting spot.

Hummels and Höwedes, those two need to dog it out for the 2nd slot. And Boateng, by now, is pretty much the only choice for RB. Let's not forget that he's actually decent at attacking from time to time. And he's the god of tackles.

VivaStPauli wrote:TBH Badstuber + Mertesacker are bad because they're too similar, but either of them can really be argued to deserve a starting spot.

Hummels and Höwedes, those two need to dog it out for the 2nd slot. And Boateng, by now, is pretty much the only choice for RB. Let's not forget that he's actually decent at attacking from time to time. And he's the god of tackles.

Boss comment

VivaStPauli wrote:TBH Badstuber + Mertesacker are bad because they're too similar, but either of them can really be argued to deserve a starting spot.

Hummels and Höwedes, those two need to dog it out for the 2nd slot. And Boateng, by now, is pretty much the only choice for RB. Let's not forget that he's actually decent at attacking from time to time. And he's the god of tackles.

Absolutely agreed. I think these 7 weren't a bad idea to take along for the Euro2012. After all, then each spot is covered double, which is good in case of injuries.

(Right to Left) Chandler Höwedes Hummels Lahm

Looks good to me, two natural fullbacks, two natural centre backs...

...o right...

lololol 2 l8 4 u trolololol

Oh come on, be happy Chandler plays for your US Boys. If he'd have chosen Germany, we only would get stick again for poaching just another foreigner