cheesy wrote:

ragbirjosh wrote:@THC that's how Evra operates.......he sets things in motion and then pulls out at the last second when the damage has already been done.

If you have time read the "Why Patrice Evra has never played the race card" article...it's an absolute joke.

How is at an absolute joke? It actually tells the truth, and explains why it's a myth that Evra has used the race card. It's been others who brought it up in those situations, not him. Evra's hardly perfect, but the idea that he constantly uses the race card is a myth.

Do you understand what it means to play the race card?

The article outlined sevral situations where Evra did not choose to exhaustively use legal channels to pursue his claims of racism- Fine.

That's one part of the race card.

The other part is using race to endear a sense of sympathy or pity or to slander the opposition.- that's where he has used it .

They are both dick heads anyway...

lmao this thread still alive?

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

elmystique wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

NO Elmystique

You said that people are guilty until proven innocent.

I and many other people know for a fact that anyone who believes this is a complete and total fool.

If you were trolling and retracted the underlined statement then you wouldn't look so stupid. I gave you the opportunity to do that 7/8 times by asking you directly if you really believe that or if you were just taking the piss yet you did not take the statement back.

ok fine, you misread me [and I clearly gave you examples as to what I meant], you win, happy now?

No there was no misreading of your posts at all. On page 31 you said the following quote. There was no misreading and it is from this quote I started asking you if you actually believe it.

“he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...”

There are multiple other examples in this thread where you show you believe in “guilty until proven innocent” Here are some:

On page 21 you say

“when Suarez is found NOT guilty, I will retract all my statements...”

This shows the point that you believe that innocence must be proved and up until that point one must assume a defendant is guilty. On the next page you ask Nishank why he “doesn’t get” your statement which again leads one to think you believe it.

On page 23 you say this

“please show me PROOF that Suarez did not use the word "negrito" if you can, I will back out of this thread...”

Again showing you believe guilty until proven innocent

On page 26 you say

“I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?”

This is simply bizarre and totally stupid,

On page 27 mmr34 tries to explain to you that people are not guilty until proven innocent. Your response:

”the FA has already punished him, if that was not the case then it would be different...”



So in conclusion, I don’t win because I misread any of your posts. I win because I have shown you to be a complete and utter fool.

Suarez is currently found to be guilty by the FA is he not, what are you on?

who looks the fool? Until the FA investigates he is guilty until proven innocent, which of this is hard to contemplate?

TetraHydroC 10 wrote:

elmystique wrote: so how hard is it to understand that something accepted culturally from where you are from is not everywhere else...

go put this stuff on a non-football forum and let's see where things would stand on a neutral perspective wise one...

It's obvious you don't bother reading what I write, so I'm not going to bother responding anymore (I know it's not the first time I've said this). Whenever this kid feels like he's been asked a difficult question he changes the subject or responds with a question.

Sad thing is we had shared kind words with each other before, I thought more highly of you before this whole incident. I've had disagreements with other posters and we've been able to move past that, that's what debate it all about, perhaps you didn't get the memo. I never once claimed to have the answer and I made it clear in my first post that I was merely sharing my opinion with the forum.

THC I think so highly of you and still do and I believe you and most others are basically not understanding my pt. but I have clearly stated my reasons clearly,

I understand your pts clearly, but verbal racism no matter intent should not be allowed, how would you feel if you went to an African country and every one calls you "Hey white man" even though they have no racist intent [and I can assure you that] but tell me you won't feel uneasy at a pt.

I have seen people do the example I put up and trust me I tell people to stop that and call them by their actual names......

*walks into thread*

wtf 38 pages are you fracking serious?

*walks out*

Seems about right Ganso. lol

i had to read every single page lol

I never feel comfortable posting unless I've read everything from the thread (especially when it's a serious topic), I feel your pain, RG.

Some of the stuff is actually worth reading, the thread wouldn't seem so overwhelming if people learned how to properly quote.

Never liked this quoting system.

Feel for ya both though. =P

Does this thread have the most posts on GL.....it has more than the "Introduce yourself" thread and 3x more than the recent classico thread.All this was made possible by whoever banned Uraguay4life and Elmystique.

Also.......late nomination for thrread of the year.

Some really good stuff was posted and rational arguments made on both sides.......,,,,but there's also alot of BS and circle arguments.

Red,RG,THC, Arq,Sushimaster and to an extent BarileteCosmico all contributed rational though.

Wonder how Javier Hernandez feels about this case...

so suarez called evra something in south american.........can evra speak south american or is he just assuming he heard what other people told him he heard?

fatman123 wrote:so suarez called evra something in south american.........can evra speak south american or is he just assuming he heard what other people told him he heard?

Evra made a comment to Suarez using a derogatory word about South Americans. Suarez responded in spanish and used "a word his [Evra's] teammates would/have used." This is ASSUMED to be "negro" or "negrito." Evra would both know the English connotations of the word AND the Latin/South American connotations, as Hernandez has been quoted in at least one interview as using it to refer to a black teammate.

RedOranje wrote:

fatman123 wrote:so suarez called evra something in south american.........can evra speak south american or is he just assuming he heard what other people told him he heard?

Evra made a comment to Suarez using a derogatory word about South Americans. Suarez responded in spanish and used "a word his [Evra's] teammates would/have used." This is ASSUMED to be "negro" or "negrito." Evra would both know the English connotations of the word AND the Latin/South American connotations, as Hernandez has been quoted in at least one interview as using it to refer to a black teammate.

wow there is no "sudamerican language"...im sorry to say that shows a lot of ignorance.

RedOranje wrote:

fatman123 wrote:so suarez called evra something in south american.........can evra speak south american or is he just assuming he heard what other people told him he heard?

Evra made a comment to Suarez using a derogatory word about South Americans. Suarez responded in spanish and used "a word his [Evra's] teammates would/have used." This is ASSUMED to be "negro" or "negrito." Evra would both know the English connotations of the word AND the Latin/South American connotations, as Hernandez has been quoted in at least one interview as using it to refer to a black teammate.

guess fergie wont let us ban hernandez, would he?

wtf, 39 pages.

How did I miss this?

As far as I'm concerned it's a step forward and backward. Good to fine him and ban him. Bad to ban him for 8 games. Maybe it is so heavy a punishment to ward off racism...but now to be fair to Liverpool and Suarez everybody with racist comments of a similar degree must be banned as many games or close to it.

Hmmm...

I think I like this overall.

Racism should not be accepted in this game. It will happen but punishment like this should be handed out.

You know what I think it's a full step forward.

EDIT: Although I'm not sure how bad the offense was. I guess the # of games does depend on how bad it was and a second read over it seems 8 games is harsh. Ugh I'm second guessing myself a lot... I'm staying away from this thread

"The official rap thread" has 113 more posts than this, by the way...

The f.a. has made an example out of Suarez, but one has to understand that he cannot racially abuse people. IMO, he deserves the punishment handed out to him. He just cannot get away by saying he did not mean the term he said in a racist way.

Its sad to see people standing up for Suarez just because he is from Liv or they hate Man Utd or Evra, cos racism is a much bigger problem than the Liv- Man utd rivalry.

johniet wrote:

RedOranje wrote:

fatman123 wrote:so suarez called evra something in south american.........can evra speak south american or is he just assuming he heard what other people told him he heard?

Evra made a comment to Suarez using a derogatory word about South Americans. Suarez responded in spanish and used "a word his [Evra's] teammates would/have used." This is ASSUMED to be "negro" or "negrito." Evra would both know the English connotations of the word AND the Latin/South American connotations, as Hernandez has been quoted in at least one interview as using it to refer to a black teammate.

wow there is no "sudamerican language"...im sorry to say that shows a lot of ignorance.

i dont think he said " sudamerican language " anywhere ?

Good God, how did this thread get up to 39 pages of pure stupidity is beyond me. How stupid can people get.

I will break my argument to several points:

First, Is this Racism?

For the sake of the argument, let us assume Suarez called Evra not Negrito, but Nigger. To make my point, I would like to say that probably none of you have ever been racially abused so that suddenly you think that the word Nigger is something Racially dangerous. I, being a Shia in Saudi Arabia have been stabbed two times in account of being a Shia, beaten near death by 16 guys for daring to fight back, and was called to have a tail by the religion teacher .

That is Racism, football players calling each other names in a match is far from it. Racism is the degradation and prejudice against one based on Race or Identity (Religion, Sect, etc.) To say that Suarez is racist because he insulted Evra EVEN if he used a racially loaded slur is like saying the whole of the U.S is racist because they insist on calling Obama the first black president. It just doesn't make sense, especially since Suarez is from multicultural Uruguay and actually has a bloody black grandfather.

It really annoys me how much you guys cry racism when probably none of you have experienced it or are working in a field that involves it so much (International politics) like I do, so sod off on calling another person racist when he does not fall under the definition whatsoever, unless you know for certain that Suarez believes people of dark skin color are inferior. If you do not, then any court of law WILL find you guilty of defamation.

Conclusion, racially loaded insult are NOT enough to label someone as racist.

Note: Yes elm, Racism does indeed come in *bleep* degrees, just as EVERYTHING else does. Burns, disease, fraking race, and the bloody melatonin content. You arguing against that proves your abuse free existance in the U.S.

Second, Is Negrito Racially loaded?

Courtesy of my vast experience with South America due to my adventurous uncles and the good South Americans here is very obvious now that the Term is used in similar vain to mate. There is no argument there, it is simply fact that Negrito Is not ins anyway, shape, or form a racially loaded slur.

The question now is whether to carry term against Suarez based on English custom. However, not contract for ANY foregin workforce mandates the worker to customize himself with English custom, and as thus there was no law requiring bloody Suarez from learning bloody English WHICH HE DOES NOT SPEAK. Therefore, as learning another language is a basis of learning its Culture, Suarez was and is thinking in Spanish and therefore he was entirely in the realm of Spanish culture when e uttered the words.
Are the words racially loaded, NO. Did Suarez even speak them to insult, we don't know since all Evra said was he heard Negrito. Therefore, with all reasonable doubt, Suarez did not intend to use the word in its negative English usage, and the most he could get was insulting a riling up an opposing player.

Some say that Evra is not Suarez's friend and as such he wouldn't have used it in its mate capacity. This shows extreme stupidity in the part of the arguer here. I am not the friend of the bloody grocery store cashier and yet he tells me to have a good day negrito, I am not the friend of the bloody hotel Manager but he tell me to have a good night negrito (in Brazil, 2007). We are not fraking friends but we use the word mate, because its is better than saying hey person.

Conclusion, judging Suarez based on English custom is bigoted law with no reasonable logic behind it. The FA are making fools of themselves and any English court will be in Suarez side.

Third, Is the Sentence fair?

Suarez is either Racist and used a Racist term in purpose, or he is not and used what can be conceived a racist term by mistake.

The FA took a cowardly way out by giving a punishment that suited neither. Either judge Suarez to be a racist and ban him for life or upon successful rehabilitation. Or judge him not racist and teach him where he erred and give him a token fine.

By choosing neither, they refused to call Suarez racist and refused to call him not a racist which defames the player and is of no sense legally whatsoever. Simply put, it is either a permanent ban or a token fine, any other punishment is a cowards way out.

In Conclusion, Suarez is not a racist by any stretch of the imagination and anyone saying he is a is a bloody bigoted idiot. The when in Rome adage is an ancient and xenophobic proverb, and in our global society, people need to be taught what is done in Rome instead of being expected to learn it.

The argument some imbecile said about if it is alright to kill people if your culture said it's alright. That is a moronic idea, because no single current culture encourages or condones killing in any way shape or form, with the exception of the rouge terrorist cultures like Al Qaeda.

The FA are bloody cowards who are stepping on their own toes, and the people condoning Suarez are as narrow as Chinese finger traps.

Goog god, read a book, or use your bloody brain. It dies of malusage.

P.S: I feelfor you Che, good job mate.

If that doesnt end this thread, then what will?

Someone would probably disagree with Lord Spencer's rather interesting post but it certainly feels like a full stop to this discussion.

Can Liverpool sue the crap out of FA and Evra for this?