halamadrid2 wrote:well forgive me for having to read in a pond of multiquoted posts

Hala, my statement had literally nothing to do with you though. More to do with Irish responding to Elmystique honestly...

Doc wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:well forgive me for having to read in a pond of multiquoted posts

Hala, my statement had literally nothing to do with you though. More to do with Irish responding to Elmystique honestly...

ooopps,i thought you meant me because i quoted the wrong guy lol

it was irish_catalan, i shouldve quoted but i quoted poolsupporter *asks for forgiveness*

halamadrid2 wrote:lol irish_catalan, he is using that in a different context than you

put it this way...you are looking at it differently

There is no context in this argument there is no other way to look at it.

If you believe that a guilty until proven innocent model of justice is right then you are a fool. It's not hard to understand that and I don't know what point you are trying to make.

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:lol irish_catalan, he is using that in a different context than you

put it this way...you are looking at it differently

There is no context in this argument there is no other way to look at it.

If you believe that a guilty until proven innocent model of justice is right then you are a fool. It's not hard to understand that and I don't know what point you are trying to make.

i think he is trying to explain it to you in this situation ALONE and not generally...if ya know what i mean

halamadrid2 wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:lol irish_catalan, he is using that in a different context than you

put it this way...you are looking at it differently

There is no context in this argument there is no other way to look at it.

If you believe that a guilty until proven innocent model of justice is right then you are a fool. It's not hard to understand that and I don't know what point you are trying to make.

i think he is trying to explain it to you in this situation ALONE and not generally...if ya know what i mean

I know what you mean but it still doesn't make sense. You cannot say the law means X for all cases apart from this specific case where it means Y.

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

I know what you mean but it still doesn't make sense. You cannot say the law means X for all cases apart from this specific case where it means Y.

yh i agree(dont believe in that either), but it was just my view on it all(his posts) after everything had calmed down

I'd have to agree with this ban, if I'm being honest. Suarez will use the fact that he didn't think the term he used was racist, but I'm not buying into that. If you are playing against someone who you obviously don't get along with, you don't use a racial slur against them in any case, because you know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

cheesy wrote:I'd have to agree with this ban, if I'm being honest. Suarez will use the fact that he didn't think the term he used was racist, but I'm not buying into that. If you are playing against someone who you obviously don't get along with, you don't use a racial slur against them in any case, because you know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

But if you didn't realise that the term could be interpreted as a racial slur then you wouldn't know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

cheesy wrote:I'd have to agree with this ban, if I'm being honest. Suarez will use the fact that he didn't think the term he used was racist, but I'm not buying into that. If you are playing against someone who you obviously don't get along with, you don't use a racial slur against them in any case, because you know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

But if you didn't realise that the term could be interpreted as a racial slur then you wouldn't know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

Still, you wouldn't use it at all if you thought there was even the slightest chance that it could cause trouble. Even if he saw no harm in it, then he must have still realised that he could offend someone. It's not a valid excuse to use.

Simply put Evra took it too far.

There was never any discriminatory intent in Suarez words.

Lord Hispano wrote:Simply put Evra took it too far.

There was never any discriminatory intent in Suarez words.

How did Evra take it too far? All he did was make the complaint. He's remained quiet and dignifed throughout the whole affair. If someone uses a racial slur against him, then he has every right to complain about it.

No one is going to come to an agreement within this thread. I'm going to wait and see what evidence comes out from the FA and make a final decision on the matter. Furthermore I want to see what happens with Evra's admittance of using an inappropriate insult towards Suarez.

Regardless of what's being discussed, I think everyone should agree that the punishment is harsh considering the level of doubt here. (This thread is proof enough about the doubt witnessed in this case)

If the FA come up with evidence that clearly show something we don't already know, I'll retract my own statements. However, I can't see that happening based on the nature of Liverpool's statement yesterday.

My opinion is the same for Evra's comment by the way. By no means do I condone him getting a ban like this for his comment/s.

thought evra was grown up...players like marcelo just ignore kids like that

Statement from LFC players

Luis Suarez is our teammate and our friend and as a group of players we are shocked and angered that he has been found guilty by the FA.

We totally support Luis and we want the world to know that. We know he is not racist.

We are a squad of many different nationalities and backgrounds. All of us support the Club's commitment to fighting racism. All of us accept there is no place in the game for any form of discrimination. As a group of players we totally support the Kick it Out Campaign.

We have lived, trained and played with Luis for almost 12 months and we don't recognise the way he has been portrayed. We will continue to support Luis through this difficult period, and as a popular and respected friend of all his teammates, he will not walk alone.

cheesy wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

cheesy wrote:I'd have to agree with this ban, if I'm being honest. Suarez will use the fact that he didn't think the term he used was racist, but I'm not buying into that. If you are playing against someone who you obviously don't get along with, you don't use a racial slur against them in any case, because you know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

But if you didn't realise that the term could be interpreted as a racial slur then you wouldn't know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

Still, you wouldn't use it at all if you thought there was even the slightest chance that it could cause trouble. Even if he saw no harm in it, then he must have still realised that he could offend someone. It's not a valid excuse to use.

How to you arrive at this conclusion? It is False.

The opposite is true. If you felt like what you were saying was normal and non-offensive then why you" still realise" that you would offend someone.

I would honestly love to see what the FA used as evidence to charge Suarez as a charge like racism sticks with you beyond football.

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

cheesy wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

cheesy wrote:I'd have to agree with this ban, if I'm being honest. Suarez will use the fact that he didn't think the term he used was racist, but I'm not buying into that. If you are playing against someone who you obviously don't get along with, you don't use a racial slur against them in any case, because you know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

But if you didn't realise that the term could be interpreted as a racial slur then you wouldn't know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

Still, you wouldn't use it at all if you thought there was even the slightest chance that it could cause trouble. Even if he saw no harm in it, then he must have still realised that he could offend someone. It's not a valid excuse to use.

How to you arrive at this conclusion? It is False.

The opposite is true. If you felt like what you were saying was normal and non-offensive then why you" still realise" that you would offend someone.

Listen, if you use a racial slur, then you have to realise that there's a chance that you're going to offend someone when you use it, even if it's not as extreme a slur as others that could have been used.

May as well put it here.

He refered to him as "little dark one" or "little black one" not the "N" word as everyone in United and seemingly the FA are conveniently interperting as.

Maybe Evra though Suarez was making fun of his.

Anyway, it's not even an excuse. Evra's just trolling Suarez and LFC litterally. Pretty sure he's been called N word by his colleagues yet not a murmur as he knew he wasn't being discriminated.

cheesy wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

cheesy wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

cheesy wrote:I'd have to agree with this ban, if I'm being honest. Suarez will use the fact that he didn't think the term he used was racist, but I'm not buying into that. If you are playing against someone who you obviously don't get along with, you don't use a racial slur against them in any case, because you know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

But if you didn't realise that the term could be interpreted as a racial slur then you wouldn't know the trouble that it can eventually cause.

Still, you wouldn't use it at all if you thought there was even the slightest chance that it could cause trouble. Even if he saw no harm in it, then he must have still realised that he could offend someone. It's not a valid excuse to use.

How to you arrive at this conclusion? It is False.

The opposite is true. If you felt like what you were saying was normal and non-offensive then why you" still realise" that you would offend someone.

Listen, if you use a racial slur, then you have to realise that there's a chance that you're going to offend someone when you use it, even if it's not as extreme a slur as others that could have been used.

Yes, true but if you didnt know you were using a racist term why would you expect to offend someone.

How would you not know that it's a racial term? If he used the word, and can comprehend the difference in races between two people, then he must have understood that the term could be interpreted as racist.

cheesy wrote:
Still, you wouldn't use it at all if you thought there was even the slightest chance that it could cause trouble. Even if he saw no harm in it, then he must have still realized that he could offend someone. It's not a valid excuse to use.

Did you ever consider becoming a mind reader? That one statement you just made had so many what ifs. Some have already made this statement but here goes, why would Suarez come out and admit to saying this? There's no other proof of this and it's becoming clear to me that Evra is taking you all for a ride. I'm just going to assume the others have a personal issue with Suarez. But let me try and make it clear, dirty play/dirty tactics doesn't make a player a racist.

Nobody's perfect and sometimes we say things we don't mean or we are misunderstood because language barrier. I've seen it in the past with my mother and I still see it present day. You all want Suarez to be considerate and understanding of how things are done in England, but you're all so quick to disregard how he how and where he was brought up. Keep in mind I don't really have a personal opinion about Suarez.

Let's take a moment to look at what the word means, Racist: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

Really think about the meaning of the word before you go online and start throwing the word around. Don't let your hate/dislike for another man make you blind, think about the implications that can be drawn from these charges. Worse yet, the person making these claims has already admitted to addressing Suarez by his race. We all know that trash talking goes on in sports, I don't understand why Evra made a big deal about this and went on to say he didn't feel Suarez is a racist. The damage has already been done, great job Evra.

@THC that's how Evra operates.......he sets things in motion and then pulls out at the last second when the damage has already been done.

If you have time read the "Why Patrice Evra has never played the race card" article...it's an absolute joke.

TetraHydroC 10 wrote:

cheesy wrote:
Still, you wouldn't use it at all if you thought there was even the slightest chance that it could cause trouble. Even if he saw no harm in it, then he must have still realized that he could offend someone. It's not a valid excuse to use.

Did you ever consider becoming a mind reader? That one statement you just made had so many what ifs. Some have already made this statement but here goes, why would Suarez come out and admit to saying this? There's no other proof of this and it's becoming clear to me that Evra is taking you all for a ride. I'm just going to assume the others have a personal issue with Suarez. But let me try and make it clear, dirty play/dirty tactics doesn't make a player a racist.

Nobody's perfect and sometimes we say things we don't mean or we are misunderstood because language barrier. I've seen it in the past with my mother and I still see it present day. You all want Suarez to be considerate and understanding of how things are done in England, but you're all so quick to disregard how he how and where he was brought up. Keep in mind I don't really have a personal opinion about Suarez.

Let's take a moment to look at what the word means, Racist: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

Really think about the meaning of the word before you go online and start throwing the word around. Don't let your hate/dislike for another man make you blind, think about the implications that can be drawn from these charges. Worse yet, the person making these claims has already admitted to addressing Suarez by his race. We all know that trash talking goes on in sports, I don't understand why Evra made a big deal about this and went on to say he didn't feel Suarez is a racist. The damage has already been done, great job Evra.

There's not a lot of 'ifs' in my statement, at all.

A lot of what you've said is complete and utter nonsense. Suarez can claim to not having known what the word meant, but why should that make a difference? He cannot prove this. Any player could then come out and say the same thing: claiming that they didn't think the world was implied in a racist manner. Even when you don't think that you're using it in a racist way, why use it at all? Why bring the issue of race up? You're just asking for trouble.

Nobody is perfect, and I don't expect them to be. Still, when a player makes a mistake, you can't just simply move on from it, especially when the players still adamant that he hasn't actually done anything wrong.

You claim that I hate Suarez, yet it seems more like you are the one who hates Evra here. You've comdemnded him, yet he has simply reported an incident of a racist nature. It makes sense to say that Suarez isn't naturally a racist as well, because I don't think he is. There's a massive difference between a person being racist, and fully hating on other races, and a person using a racial slur. In either case, the offender deserves to be punished for it.

ragbirjosh wrote:@THC that's how Evra operates.......he sets things in motion and then pulls out at the last second when the damage has already been done.

If you have time read the "Why Patrice Evra has never played the race card" article...it's an absolute joke.

How is at an absolute joke? It actually tells the truth, and explains why it's a myth that Evra has used the race card. It's been others who brought it up in those situations, not him. Evra's hardly perfect, but the idea that he constantly uses the race card is a myth.

cheesy wrote:How would you not know that it's a racial term? If he used the word, and can comprehend the difference in races between two people, then he must have understood that the term could be interpreted as racist.

The same way some GL members didn't know that "Negrito" was a friendly term used in South America. Maybe he thought Evra already knew the term had no bad intentions. We can go on all day with the what ifs and the maybes, it's best we stick with the facts at hand.

Perception is a funny thing, sometimes we forget that our perception and views are not shared by others. I honestly enjoy live so much because all human beings are so unique, I love meeting new people and getting to know them. I do my best to never judge and I'm always willing to listen and learn about other cultures.

I forgot which poster was shocked when he found out that nickname would only be given to blacks.

What I witnessed in Brazil (for the most part) was that nobody really cared about skin color. It's true if you were small and black the group would probably call you neguinho and negao if you were bigger. At the end of the day everyone was considered Brazilian and it was a beautiful thing.

I understand things are different in the states and I act accordingly. But along the lines you meet those people you really bond with and become brothers and sisters and yes, we will address each other by race at times. We can't hide behind this subject and walk on eggshells, that's never going to help solve the bigger problem.

cheesy wrote:

There's not a lot of 'ifs' in my statement, at all.

A lot of what you've said is complete and utter nonsense. Suarez can claim to not having known what the word meant, but why should that make a difference? He cannot prove this. Any player could then come out and say the same thing: claiming that they didn't think the world was implied in a racist manner. Even when you don't think that you're using it in a racist way, why use it at all? Why bring the issue of race up? You're just asking for trouble.

Nobody is perfect, and I don't expect them to be. Still, when a player makes a mistake, you can't just simply move on from it, especially when the players still adamant that he hasn't actually done anything wrong.

You claim that I hate Suarez, yet it seems more like you are the one who hates Evra here. You've comdemnded him, yet he has simply reported an incident of a racist nature. It makes sense to say that Suarez isn't naturally a racist as well, because I don't think he is. There's a massive difference between a person being racist, and fully hating on other races, and a person using a racial slur. In either case, the offender deserves to be punished for it.

For the record, I have no issue with Evra, I don't pay much attention to him. I'm just basing my opinion off what he (Evra) said. I made no claims in my post, I'm just giving my opinion. The difference between me and you is that you're trying to prove your point, I just want to share my thoughts. I didn't say that you hated Suarez, that's just the vibe I'm getting from certain posters (I'm not the first some to mention this). Your post is telling us how Suarez must have felt and you claim to know he knew he was going to offend Evra. You don't leave yourself much wiggle room in that post, so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue.

Go back and read my post, I'm not claiming to have the answers on how anyone intended anything. Do you understand what that means? I'm saying that I don't know how Suarez meant "negrito" to come off and it's impossible for anyone on this forum to know, it's all speculation.

cheesy wrote:

ragbirjosh wrote:@THC that's how Evra operates.......he sets things in motion and then pulls out at the last second when the damage has already been done.

If you have time read the "Why Patrice Evra has never played the race card" article...it's an absolute joke.

How is at an absolute joke? It actually tells the truth, and explains why it's a myth that Evra has used the race card. It's been others who brought it up in those situations, not him. Evra's hardly perfect, but the idea that he constantly uses the race card is a myth.

Do you understand what it means to play the race card?

The article outlined sevral situations where Evra did not choose to exhaustively use legal channels to pursue his claims of racism- Fine.

That's one part of the race card.

The other part is using race to endear a sense of sympathy or pity or to slander the opposition.- that's where he has used it .