2011/12 first 11 dilemmas

Between experimenting with formations and multiple injuries, we still haven't seen what Pep considers to be our starting eleven for this season. Assuming the usual 4-5-1 we been playing the previous seasons and everyone fully fit and rested, what would be the lineup of choice?

GK: Valdes
RB: Alves
LB: Abidal
CB: Puyol, Pique
DM: Sergio or Masch
CM1: Xavi
CM2: Iniesta or Cesc
RW: ?
LW: ?
CF: Messi?

One straightforward dilemma would be regarding Sergio or Masch for the DM position. Masch is better defensively, Sergio helps circulate the ball better, which incidentally is our way of defending however. Would be very interesting to see which of the two gets picked for big games assuming Masch doesn't have to sub in for Pique or Puyol for once.

The second dilemma is much more complicated. Obviously Xavi, Messi and Iniesta can't be dropped. Xavi obviously as CM and Messi as CF. If Iniesta plays next to Xavi, Cesc can't really fit in the squad in any of his known positions at least. Pushing Iniesta to LW would leave a spot for Cesc at CM and then we're left with 1 spot at RW for Villa, Alexis and Pedro. Villa is not very comfortable at RW and Iniesta isn't as effective at LW either.

The other scenario would be moving Messi back to RW and playing Cesc as the false 9 which is quite similar to what he was doing during the early season games in the 3-4-3. This would leave Pedro and Alexis out of the starting squad, which is fine, but I doubt many would want Messi to be switched out of the CF position.

Basically it boils down to a couple questions. Is it better to fit Villa in and leave Cesc out or get Cesc in and move Iniesta to a suboptimal position? And then on the RW, is Alexis considered better than the out of form Pedro? Or maybe leave them both out and throw Villa there?

It's the kind of headache any coach would kill to have but it's still very interesting and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. And I can't wait to see what's Pep's thoughts ofc soon as the big games come and everyone is hopefully fit and ready.

I think we'll probably stick to 4-3-3 for the big games for now. So if our big match team is 4-3-3 I'd probably go with this line-up.


Your idea of a dilemma between Masch and Busquets is inexistent. Busquets gets the nod every time. Its more likely that Masch could win the spot off Puyol in fact, or play in a back three with the other 2 CBs. Busquets is pretty indispensable and Pep has been quoted before as saying he's the first name on his teamsheet.

The main dilemma is the front three... depending on form, I think even Adriano could be considered... right now I would certainly have him considered. Alexis seems to have the star factor, he's been great when he plays, and considering Pedro's form, Alexis is straight in for me. The final position probably should go to Villa, but depending on form Pedro or even Cesc could also be part of the front 3.

For a 3-4-3...perhaps something like...

Stejo wrote:
One straightforward dilemma would be regarding Sergio or Masch for the DM position. Masch is better defensively, Sergio helps circulate the ball better, which incidentally is our way of defending however. Would be very interesting to see which of the two gets picked for big games assuming Masch doesn't have to sub in for Pique or Puyol for once.

Amazing how there are still Barça fans that doubt Busquets. Mascherano will barely play at all as DM again, at least while Keita is on the team. Busquets is better than him at almost everything and is vital to our play, and Keita is the backup DM.

About Alexis/Pedro, although Pedro has been "meh" this season, I still feel he is above Alexis Sanchez. Alexis hasn't proved much yet, and Pedro is still better in my books. He can fight for the spot and show his quality though, he didn't have much chances yet.

It's not a matter of underrating Sergio, rather than having faith in Masch and recognizing his efforts. He's been tremendous as CB for quite a while now and played almost every game so far this season, so I figured the position could be up for grabs when the main CB partnership is back on. I doubt Mascherano would be happy to accept that he'll never get a starting spot ahead of Sergio no matter how good his performances are. And lately I think we all agree that he's been brilliant.

I’ll be honest I hate the guy. However I cannot help but acknowledge that Busquets’ improvement was vast in the last months.
He is exactly the kind of player our squad needs in front of the CBs. Also with Keita and 3 CM midfield options I don’t see why Masch should be brought as DM now that he have shown that he can boss the CB area.

The only dilemma for me is who will accompany Messi in the attack with Alexis looking sharp and even Cuenca looking really promising.
Still Villa Messi Sanchez is the best option for me.

P.S. let it be noted that there is positively no dilemma for Iniesta and Xavi

I agree he's been brilliant lately....




..... as CB.

Never was brilliant as DM, neve will be at Barça.

It's good that we finally have depth in the squad and Pedro and Villa won't be playing all games when they suck like in last season. 8 games Villa went without scoring and he still started all this games. Point of his frustration was Levante game away, when he was tired like shi* and still had to start due to our zero depth.

My starting XI in 4-3-3:

Valdes - Alves - Pique - Mascherano/Puyol - Abidal - Xavi - Busquets - Iniesta - Sanchez - Messi - Villa

If Villa sucks then move Iniesta on the wing and start Cesc in midfield.

3-4-3:

Valdes - Alves - Pique - Mascherano/Puyol - Xavi - Busquets - Cesc - Iniesta - Sanchez - Messi - Villa

I never rated Pedro, TBH Cuenca looks like he has more talent that Pedro. Sanchez will win the spot in first 11, Pedro 'I can't dribble' Rodriguez will have to warm the bench.

Knowing Pep Keita will start some important game btw

matpol wrote:
I never rated Pedro, TBH Cuenca looks like he has more talent that Pedro. Sanchez will win the spot in first 11, Pedro 'I can't dribble' Rodriguez will have to warm the bench.

Yeah, I don't rate Pedro highly, one of the least talented players in the squad.

Overkill on Pedro there and I understand what you mean Free... if Pedro found his top form again, I'd pick him too. Its the proven 3 up front. However, he's out of form atm and I believe by the end of the season Alexis will win a starting spot. He's that good.

Pedro's a great player, but I think Alexis could be a real superstar.

Why is Cesc Fabregas a part of our best 11?
kizz-I cant believe you would have Fab over Alves.
I mean Fabregas over Dani Alves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What exactly has done to warrant a place over Alves?
Besides looking like a poor lost little kid everytime he plays that is.

On the same token why is Fab ahead of Thiago?Thiago has clearly better.

On the question,the default starting 11 that started the CL final(except Puyol in place of Masch).

matpol wrote:Yeah, I don't rate Pedro highly, one of the least talented players in the squad.

How fast we forget of what some players have done for us.

Scoring in 6 competitions, beating Henry's stats every season, scoring several vs. Madrid, the opener in a CL final, linking up tremendously with Messi in tens of goals, dribling-raping Maicon (who was considered the best RB in the world back then) repeatedly, and most of all, working his ass off each and every game with a workrate, defending, and determination out of this world.

This is Pedro. The much better Giuly. Samuel Eto'o's and Luis Enrique heir. A legend in the making to me.

alexjanosik wrote:Why is Cesc Fabregas a part of our best 11?
kizz-I cant believe you would have Fab over Alves.
I mean Fabregas over Dani Alves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What exactly has done to warrant a place over Alves?
Besides looking like a poor lost little kid everytime he plays that is.

On the same token why is Fab ahead of Thiago?Thiago has clearly better.

On the question,the default starting 11 that started the CL final(except Puyol in place of Masch).

I'm glad Fabregas has been found out tbh. Hopefully people start seeing the light. I feel Barcelona got him because of the catalan appeal tbh.

Villa and Pedro are still top dogs until someone takes that mantel from them. Fabregas and Sanchez are the two in question, and imo, form plays a huge factor. I can see one of Pedro or Villa losing their spot, but it's also highly likely they find their top form and with the right rotation, they will stay in top form.

matpol wrote:Yeah, I don't rate Pedro highly, one of the least talented players in the squad.

This guy started a World Cup final and a CL final both in one year. Show some respect.

Blackmore. wrote:
This guy started a World Cup final and a CL final both in one year. Show some respect.

Very good point. He won both as well.

Is that you JD? He sure as hell won both. I'll never forget all he's done for us.

Glad to see some ppl have not forgotten about what Pedro has done for us.
He scored on Casillas in two CRUCIAL classicos for us - Pellegrini's madrid in the bernabeu, then the 5-0 classico.
He opened the scoring against Manchester United in the final.
He scored goals in all 6 tournaments during the treble year.

He gets overlooked and underrated cause he isn't a flashy player. But in terms of effectiveness, he is high in the pecking order.
Look no further than the CL final to see our strongest starting 11. Pedro is always included.
You think Messi and Villa find space on their own? No. Pedro's crazy workrate and discipline in following tactical orders has made these guys' lives a lot easier.
He's also an EXCELLENT finisher - his shot accuracy is top notch, and shooting technique is excellent.

In a team full of star studded talent, it's easy to overlook effective team players like Pedro, especially when they're off form.

The thing about Pedro is that there are so many players on our team who can play in his "winger" position:

-Adriano
-Sanchez
-Affelay
-Alves
-Even Iniesta and Villa (though they usually play down the left)

Regarding the OP,

I think Cesc, Thiago, Masch, and Sanchez are ultimately the 3 subs for big matches. We need to have Busquets Xavi and Iniesta ruling the midfield. And we need MVP as our starting front line.

I don't mind swapping Puyol for Masch, but not for Pique. We need Pique's ball playing abilities.
Sanchez is a great impact sub as he has lots of explosive power.
Thiago can easily fill in for either Xavi or Iniesta when needed.
And Cesc, well, I don't know where he fits in. We don't even really need him lol

for LB i really like Abidal but Adriano is so fast and athletic, I've seen him keep CR7 in his back pocket during one of the classicos. Not to mention he offers a lot going forward. I'm really starting to like this kid.

I just noticed how ridiculous our bench is. Cesc, Thiago, Masch, and Sanchez would make the starting 11 for every other team in the world.

alexjanosik wrote:Why is Cesc Fabregas a part of our best 11?
kizz-I cant believe you would have Fab over Alves.
I mean Fabregas over Dani Alves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What exactly has done to warrant a place over Alves?
Besides looking like a poor lost little kid everytime he plays that is.

On the same token why is Fab ahead of Thiago?Thiago has clearly better.

On the question,the default starting 11 that started the CL final(except Puyol in place of Masch).

?? Where did I put Fab over Alves? I would have Alves every time... My best 11 has neither Thiago or Fab, thats the reality. My best 11 is 4-3-3.

If you're referring to the 3-4-3 I made, Cesc is in there because he's played the 2nd striker position pretty much every time. In fact, I don't really see much need to play that way unless Cesc is in the team. I'd still have Alves in the 3-4-3 if I could, but I don't think he's used that well in it... neither is Xavi. These are 2 of my top players, and this is pretty much why I hate the 3-4-3.

I agree with you on pretty much every point, but that 3-4-3 I made wasn't really my best XI, rather what Pep might go with in big games. If you were to choose a 3-4-3... who would be in it then? I simply don't like choosing it because it doesn't cater for Xavi or Alves at all.

Pedro and busquets...its amazing how they are overlooked. Im not a Barca fan but I've been watching since Messi started making appearances and I think its ridiculous when people act like they're not worth it. It's a TEAM, the only exception being messi. Xavi, Iniesta, busquets, pedro, Pique, alves...they all play their role with ball control, quickness, and accuracy. None of them lose the ball, misdirect passes, are out of position...they are all very disciplined and I don't believe there is a real need to change what was tournament winning last year.

now the problem they did have last year is that there were no alternatives. Madrid is on the prowl this year and IMO is the only real competition...Bayern as well.

so...sanchez in for pedro
cuenca in for nobody in big games
masch will probably start over Puyol in big games
adriano in for abidal if they need to attack, for villa if they need to defend
Thiago seems to be an opportunity to rest Iniesta but I dont think he will ever be considered for starting 11
and Fabregas in for Xavi. I dont see why people say that barca doesn't need him? He is fantastic, and offers a different style of combination with messi that Xavi can't offer. When Messi drops back Fab can move forward and finish. Fab is an obvious alternative to Xavi and a fantastic player

Yes, Fab's a great alternative and he was clearly bought for that reason. He wasn't bought to replace Xavi IMO. He's not playing the exact style Barca fans like, but I'm not sure wheter he is actually meant to be. He's there to provide something different, just like Sanchez.

Blackmore. wrote:Is that you JD? He sure as hell won both. I'll never forget all he's done for us.

Yes it's jd. I won't forget either.

I think our standard 4-3-3 is more than good enough. With a bench consisting of Alexis, Masch, Thiago and Fabregas my only dilemma is Thiago getting time. But seeing as how busy our schedule, we should be just fine. Plus Pedro's run of bad games isn't a cause for worry. Just a few months ago we were saying he was a top 5 wingers and now we don't even rate him? He'll be back.

Ok firstly, amused at the under-rating of busi at times!! absolutely hilarious!! when you have a DM thats been molded by the club for the exact role which he has to play, why would you play someone who wasnt over him? busi is perfectly suited to the DM role that we need, because thats the way he as been brought up! We dont need a destroyer, we need someone to always be available to take a pass, recycle possession and anticipate opposition counters, stuff busi is incredible at!

ok so the 4-3-3 is obviously our ideal formation and proven best starting 11! and for 9 out of those 11 positions theres absolutely no question at all as to who starts!
valdes, alves, pique,puyol, abidal for the back 5 positions! whoever said masch over puyol for the big games is an idiot! Its the exact opposite, puyol can be rested for the smaller games, but on the big occasion is when he's at his best and when the team needs his leadership the most so he must start!!

midfield is a given as well! its the best midfield trio in the world and its torn teams to pieces so why change it! busquest, xavi, iniesta!!

up front is where it gets interesting! messi is a complete certainty for starting! villa and pedro however are not so certain anymore!
villa i know always works like crazy for the team and plays out on the left wing for the benefit of the team and we shouldnt be to harsh on him as such but his performances this year just havent been as good so he faces challenges from cuenca and sanchez! likewise pedro always gives it his all and provides huge advantages by stretching defenses with his workrate but if sanchez can do the same and perform better why not start him?

so in short its in the front 3 where the most questions are! villa and pedro have performed for us magnificently on the big stage for us previously but this is a game where the past counts for little and current form is everything! cuenca and sanchez have both looked great when playing so if theres going to be any changes itll be there! i can still see us starting the big games with villa and pedro but sanchez in particular is one who should be given his chance on the grand stage!!