Obama pledges to leave Iraq within 2 months

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

english_jewel wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Worse US decision in last ten years was to enter iraq , this one comes close to that

You would rather stay there for what? Enough NATO and Iraqi lives have been lost, enough things have been bombed. Bombs don't stop terrorism, in fact I'm sure people are more likely to form groups to attack the west than they were before because they have seen the devastation foreign powers have caused.

Because there is no constitutional democracy yet, the state of the country is still very fluid, the country's shia elite have sided with our enemies iran and syria in defiance many times even though we brought them freedom. There was mass civil war and genocide, minorities like christians/arab sunnis and women are still discriminated against.

You are a man when you finish the job you begun.

Us quitting right now is like a heart doctor who quits half way through the operation.

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You also supported Saddam who really like to kill Shia's and Kurds, which is why both sides would rather side with the people who did not support Saddam.

Not to mention that the majority of the casualties in number and percentage were/are Shia and they are killed by Sunni terrorists.

The Christian minority is mostly not hassled as the Sunni/Shia divide is occupying the people, while parts in the country were the people were ignored by terrorist scum like Kurdistan, it has been largely safe in comparison. Women are not a minority Yuri, they never were. If you mean Women are discriminated against then as far as anyone can do anything in times of war, women are NOT discriminated against. There is equal representation ins whatever school's are functional.

The Sunni's are largely present in the government, and are present in all matters concerning Iraq. Even though most Sunni's live in desert parts with no strategic resources whatsoever.

However, you always supported Saudi Arabia, whose discrimination against women is widely known. Not to mention their discrimination against Shia minorities who happen to be right were the Oil reserves are. But again, the American government are friends with us, and they would continue to support us because our princess invest heavily in their elections. In spite of everything we do, the U.S. will always love us because they love our Oil, money, and heavy investments.

Lets be serious here, we supported saddam against iran (the regime that kidnapped our diplomats) but little else, we were never an ally of iraq like we are with turkey, egypt, the shah's iran or saudi arabia. Most of the iraqi people were also very supportive of their country in its war with iran.

Can you please show me where you got these percentages and numbers from?

Here are the goverment sanctioned shia death squads in iraq




I watch this video and I get very depressed, because I feel that we as humans did not take the chance to progress even when given a golden chance.

Women are being violated and oppressed in iraq, I dont care which way you slice it.

Who said I supported saudi arabia? How can I support a system that I completely disagree with? I think they are the best picks for allies in the arab world, they are the best of the bad. Nothing more, nothing less. I certainly dont want any other country in the world to become another saudi arabia.

The problem in iraq is that the shia majority saw it as an opportunity for revenge against the sunnis through the ballot box and then exclusion/security. Thats not what we its about, its about team work, society, forgiveness, individual rights and most importantly looking at the future and not the past. Look at the south africans and how they had truth councils and there was nation wide forgiveness.

There is no people that I have been disappointed in like the iraqis, I think its sad but we need to try harder to get through to them not to throw in the towel.

I am also disappointed that you would be defending the state of things right now in your country, your country can do much much better.

It is not difficult coming to that conclusion when the cities with the
highest death tolls are Baghdad, Karbala, Najaf, and Samarra. Kurdistan
were most of the moderate Sunni population is has the lowest death
tolls, whereas Sunni heavy areas never get attacked by Suicide bombers,
who count along with car bombs as in 40% of the total Civilian death
toll

The government sanctioned bit is BS and you know it. It is government tolerated at most, and it is so as not to anger the militias into doing more chaos. And 10,000 is a small number of the total 600,000 some sources provide.

Women being violated, you mean like the Mahmudiyah killings which were done by U.S. forces. Most rape cases were perpetrated by U.S. forces and U.S. mercenaries, so excuse the Iraqi public for putting more restrictions on their daughters for fear of them being raped by U.S. forces.

And in order for rights to exist at all, you need a stable society, and no stable society exists. But seriously, when did women get their rights in the U.S. or the blacks. the 70's, and the blacks are still the most jailed and least employed.

I agree though, women in IRaq are being violated, by U.S. forces and mercenaries.

Looking at South Africa now, the majority of blacks are still undereducated, underemployed, and insecure. Which is normal because the Apartheid lasted long. Point is that 8 years are a short time for genuine improvement. Not to mention that most Shia instigated violence only started in 2006 after the Samarra bombings. Which were Al-Qaeda attacks on Shia. So I am not sure about the revenge mentality when Shia's were basically stable until 2006. When Ayatollah Sistani was completly ignored in his pleads for the Shia to not retaliate.

And I am disappointed, but not much because I am not stupid to think that it only takes 8 years to fix all the grime Saddam caused. It would at least take 20 years to get this war off our backs. The U.S. took 40 years before they wrote the second constitution, before which they were unstable and ridiculed by Europe.

France took 100 years to fix themselves after their revolution, and China took 30+ years and they still have issues to work with other than economical. Japan took 20 years to be able to stand up again, and that with American help and no terrorists.

I am disappointed by the Americans, who had no intelligence in which to approach this war, and not ONE single Iraqi adviser to ask for advice from. They sunk from one mistake to another, and turned what could have been a Japan to a Vietnam. The single most stupid campaign in history, and it was not the Iraqi's who did it as much as the Americans. For one thing, approaching the war with a false premise (the WMDs) made you lose any credibility. Second, approaching this as a regular war instead of a war of attrition with your "shock and awe" tactics made you only kill civilians with your entery and you gained their animosity instead of compassion. Third, you tried to force your own version of democracy in a fragmented side instead of building from the ground up. Not to mention the extreme of stupidity of ordering the execution of Saddam in Eid and hence passing him off as a martyr.

The insurgents used suicide bombings while the shia factions used death squads under the protection of the federal government. Its natural that deaths would not be reflected by the sites of suicide bombings.

Yes, the goverment should tolerate ethnic cleansing to not get anyone angry. Malki is documented to torture, illegally arrest and incite against minorties.

This has to be a joke you cant compare france and the US's early history to that of iraq! France and the US built the road and illuminated the way for the rest. Iraq has atleast twenty successful constitutional democratic models to look at!

Actually lets scrap south africa, lets look at spain. Franco was much like saddam, they were both Fascists. When he died you did not see death squads and suicide bombings in spain.

We have built nations all over the world, we suddenly failed in iraq because of our own mistakes? Germany, Italy, South Korea and Japan are all very successful countries that we have built in one or the other. WMDs was our excuse to the security council but it wasnt the reason, we wanted to build a democratic nation in the middle east while taking out a dictator. It was also a big plus that the nation building would be payed from the oil revenues.

From 2003-2005 everything was going fine in iraq. Suddenly after the shia majority voted for the disbandment of all old military members and anyone who had anything to do with the baath party we had turmoil.

Lets face it, Iraq is the only country in the world that was given democracy on a silver platter and rejected it for revenge.

I still have faith in your country though, but only with our help

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

Actually lets scrap south africa, lets look at spain. Franco was much like saddam, they were both Fascists. When he died you did not see death squads and suicide bombings in spain.

We have built nations all over the world, we suddenly failed in iraq because of our own mistakes? Germany, Italy, South Korea and Japan are all very successful countries that we have built in one or the other. WMDs was our excuse to the security council but it wasnt the reason, we wanted to build a democratic nation in the middle east while taking out a dictator. It was also a big plus that the nation building would be payed from the oil revenues.

Four good examples, however the CIA coups and other shady exchanges that were enacted to spread democracy haven't helped America's rep, and none of those four countries are nearly as sectarian as an Arab country like Iraq. Democracy struggles in sectarian nations unless it's specifically modified with checks and balances of power.

Is there any countries in the world that are as sectarian as arab countries?

How are coups to spread democracy bad?

And they gave the terrorist a nobel peace prize.

ÖMARz wrote:And they gave the terrorist a nobel peace prize.

You could only wonder what they would give Bush.

VibeTribe wrote:America Is there bigger disgrace in the world?Their whole society is sinister and deviant.They should be forbidden to breed for the sake of the future of this world...America will end us.

well said