Obama

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Post by M99 Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:56 am

On a scale of 1-10 rate his tenure as US president and discuss your opinion on him. I was having a discussion with a friend on him and am interested to see what other people think of him, both US and non US people.
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Post by Art Morte Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:55 am

I think he's done well, he seems like a good leader capable of creating and pursuing visions (like the healthcare reform), has charisma and credibility and is able to make decisions.

I think it's very difficult to be the president of the U.S. because of the political landscape over there, the Republicans vs Democrats thing is so very confrontational. Instead of pulling the rope together to generally the same direction, it's just so much 'us against them' thinking that it can become very difficult to make changes and see sense and logic prevail in politics. Even if there's a good and sensible and needed initiative, the other side just "has to" oppose it at least a little, because otherwise it would be seen as a win for the other side and oh no, you can't have that happening.

I'd give Obama a solid 8 out of 10.
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Post by RedOranje Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:36 am

Going to be hugely subjective given how much personal ideology influences opinion. You're going to get a lot of 7/8's and a lot of 2/3's.
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:10 am

7.5/10

needs to work with Republicans sometimes when common sense prevails.... I like the democratic party better and I like Obama but I feel sometimes his ego gets n the way.......
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Post by sportsczy Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:23 pm

foreign policy 1/10
diplomatic flair 1/10

He's a more charismatic and eloquent version of Bush Jr. Both generally sucked. Usually, the great presidents move to the center once they take office... pragmatism and reality take over. But these guys have stayed true to their party lines unfortunately.

Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan (before his illness) and Bush Sr were all great presidents because they were able to use ideas from both sides of the fence and create consensus...

Obama was a great disappointment to me and i voted for him twice.
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Post by Forza Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:45 pm

I think that's a bit of a harsh criticism of Obama considering that he was trying to build consensus with a party dominated by the far-far-right. We're talking about a group of people who actually managed to shut down the government for a time.

I sympathise with you a bit because Obama didn't deliver on so many of those original "Yes we can" promises. Still, 1/10 on foreign policy is low considering that the international reputation of the US is significantly better than it was under Bush Jr. Furthermore, even Obama's most recent foreign policy move to re-open relations with Cuba is very smart thinking after years of achieving nothing by doing nothing.

I think that Obama may yet shape the future of the US in his last couple of years by bolstering some of his controversial, yet important policies on immigration, healthcare and climate change. He's really brought the US out of the dark ages in these 3 areas. Before Obama, there was no solution in sight to manage immigration, there was nothing even close to a system resembling universal healthcare and climate change didn't exist.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:41 pm

Bush Jr was one extreme and Obama the other...  Obama can't get anything done.  Republicans have taken the majority in both houses of Congress (and in spectacular fashion) this past year.  That shows how little regard the US public has for his presidency.  Bush Jr. suffered similar humiliation 2 years before the end of his presidency too.

Everything you're hearing is politics...  nothing can get get done (thankfully tbh;  i'd rather let the States figure it out for themselves which they have the power to do if the Federal government doesn't decree federal laws to override them).  As it is, his health bill (which sucks btw; good idea but pathetic execution) and his immigration executive order are in trouble... mostly the immigration executive order.  Congress has filed a lawsuit with the Federal circuit court and it's likely going to get blocked until the Judicial branch makes a decision.  That one will eventually end up in front of the Supreme Court tbh because executive orders have been abused over the past 10 years.

In any case, i neither want nor trust the government with anything.  Any politician that wants to increase government size or taxes gets an automatic "no" vote from me... all i want from the President is to handle foreign policy.  That's it.  The Federal Reserve handles monetary policy and either Congress or the individual states can figure out domestic policy.  If there's injustice in a state, then the federal government should get involved, but not before.

No American wants bigger government or higher taxes... it's completely contrary to the American way of life. Just give us the opportunities to work hard, make money and spend it... otherwise get out of our way.
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:10 pm

Forza wrote:I think that's a bit of a harsh criticism of Obama considering that he was trying to build consensus with a party dominated by the far-far-right. We're talking about a group of people who actually managed to shut down the government for a time.

I sympathise with you a bit because Obama didn't deliver on so many of those original "Yes we can" promises. Still, 1/10 on foreign policy is low considering that the international reputation of the US is significantly better than it was under Bush Jr. Furthermore, even Obama's most recent foreign policy move to re-open relations with Cuba is very smart thinking after years of achieving nothing by doing nothing.

I think that Obama may yet shape the future of the US in his last couple of years by bolstering some of his controversial, yet important policies on immigration, healthcare and climate change. He's really brought the US out of the dark ages in these 3 areas. Before Obama, there was no solution in sight to manage immigration, there was nothing even close to a system resembling universal healthcare and climate change didn't exist.


Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up

you my good sire summed it up extremely well.....

as for sportszcy, where exactly are you from, first it was France, Middle Eastern, Asia, now you are American as well Shocked

and comparing Obama to Bush jnr, I don't think you really know what you are talking about..... apart fro Obama's strong ego I think he's done well, yes I would like him to be able to work with Republicans sometimes as at some points its clear common sense could sort things out.... but let's face it the new wave of Republican politicians haven't made life easy to deal with either....

as to foreign policy, I think you are being harsh on him....
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Post by McLewis Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:17 pm

I think I need to give him a 7/10.

He appears to be a good person, but obviously I can't know this for sure as he is a politician after all. I think Obama's greatest strength is his ability to reach people in ways politicians normally wouldn't think of. I mean his campaign's use of social media in both elections was excellent honestly and that alone secured him fantastic support among millenials. This shows forward-thinking and a progressive attitude that we simply don't see from any GOP or conservative candidate. I think he has largely done quite well in office and has enacted so many great laws and bills, but he does tend to get in his own way a bit (Joe Biden even more so) and the fact that he has never had the full-backing of the military is a sticking point as well. I liked a lot of his cabinet picks and his choices for the Supreme Court seats were typically liberal, but good nonetheless. What I think makes him a good president is that while he can be shamelessly political, he isn't afraid to weigh in on subjects that traditionally would be considered beneath his office. That has endeared him to many people.

Where I think Obama struggled was with the power he actually had. He made the mistake of declaring that he would fundamentally change Washington, but as predicted, Washington changed him. For me, this was inevitable, but it was naive, short-sighted and frankly quite arrogant to make that type of statement. As transcendent as he was, Obama is still a man and he should've remembered that. Where I think he also struggled was with dealing with the GOP. My greatest frustration with Obama was his inept handling of the "Super Majority" in his first time. He had 60 votes in the Senate and the majority in the House and yet he chose to let the GOP, very much in the minority, influence him from what was essential the political sidelines. He should've ignored them and pushed forward with fulfilling his campaign promises, but instead he listened to them and once again showed the naivety of believing they would actually work with us. I don't know if this was his decision or that of his Chief of Staff, but when you have THAT much power, he should've wielded it more forcefully. The GOP didn't seem to have too much trouble with that under Bush. This type of weakness from Obama is unforgivable for me.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:37 pm

That wasn't it.  Obama never had a super majority because he could never build consensus within his own party, let alone the Republicans.  Everything was a war.

Why did it happen?  Instead of just taking over the presidency... he spent his first year blaming the last president and his party for every wrongdoing and issue of the US.  He naively broke that code of honor between presidents where you don't blame or discredit predecessors once you take office...  it's fine for campaigns; but not for office.  As a result, it became absolute war with the Republicans and he even alienated the more conservative segment of his own democratic party.  

I voted for Obama and loved him going in.  But he failed for me because he had no idea how to be a president....  thankfully, he hired a brilliant economist to handle the crisis which saved him.  But in terms of being able to pass any legislature other than emergency ones, he committed political suicide.

In terms of foreign policy, just as big a disaster as Bush although in a completely different way.  He made speeches in the middle east encouraging people to "fight for freedom" and then naively never thought that people would actually listen.  So there was no plan for support or assistance to handle such freedom...   the youth in countries like Libya, Egypt and Syria believed in what he said and rose.  Yet once they were able to topple the dictatorships, there was no guidance whatsoever.  As a result, their revolutions were hijacked by groups far worse then the dictatorships.  In the process, he made distanced Israel, Russia, Germany, France, etc. because of friction over foreign policy practices.... he screwed over his closest allies.

Diplomatic faux pas after diplomatic faux pas.... and the result is what you have to day.


Not to mention prematurely pulling out of Irak and Afghanistan because of campaign promises.  To make things worse, many of the people that were released from Gitmo have ended up back in terrorist groups according to Le Monde in France.

He's a good guy with a good heart.  Smart too in a scholastic way... but he is clueless with reality.  Some of the stuff he wants to push through are absolutely idiotic in his last 2 years.

Hillary Clinton saw his ineptitude and got out as soon as she could.
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Post by VendettaRed07 Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:41 pm

Obamas biggest issue was his precampaign and coming out attacking the right with his HOPE AND CHANGE! mantras. It was like the Miami Heat with their NOT ONE NOT TWO NOT THREE NOT FOUR coming out party..etc. it was like he was asking for people of certain belief sets to dislike him

Did the right deserve absolutely everything and more after how bad they screwed up? Yeah. But when over eight years of presidency you need to actually be able to get stuff from those people it wasn't the best decision looking back as the right still treats him for how he portrayed himself all those years ago regardless of what he does now.

Overall he's a good president but his inability to work with the other side absolutely killed him. Not all of it was his fault but a lot of it was.

However I look forward to the Clintons taking office again in 2016 and playing their masterful game of getting what they want from people.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:43 pm

Iranian father, french mother... grew up in France.  Immigrated to the US at the age of 15 and became a dual citizen after a few years.  Returned to France 20 years later but travel back and forth to the US as much as my health allows.

The world is a big place Elm. People mix and travel. It would help your personal development to keep up with the times.
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Post by RedOranje Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:40 am

Its ironic that you attack him for being to extreme leftist and unwilling to come to the center then complain that he couldn't build a consensus within his own party... specifically because he was too committed to moderate overall approach based on reaching across the aisle when his party was trending to the left in reaction to an extraordinary right-shift in a Republican Party who's entire policy for several years was "block and any every attempt at legislation, action, or policy put forward by this president to destroy his chances in the next election."

It shows a profound lack of real attention to the development of politics from that period which is to be expected (and perhaps even praised) of someone who is not entirely US-centric in their overall worldview and experience. But then we've been here before and know exactly how this will go so I'm not going to press it further.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:17 am

as arrogant as always RO.  what an endearing trait.

Yes the republicans decided to throw their entire weight against Obama... but that's of Obama's own doing.  He alienated them like i've never seen any president do before.  He declared war publicly post-election by encouraging all sorts of stupid congressional inquiries to be made and declassifying embarrassing information that had no other value than to throw mud on the other side.  Who's fault is that?  I don't understand why he decided to wage war directly.  He should have let another democrat leader do it so that he had the ability to compromise and get things done if needed.  By leading the charge, he drew a line in the sand.

He's better than Bush on the surface because our economy is fixed.  Timothy Gartner was the architect of that and he was smart enough to leave after Obama's first term.  Obama wanted to take drastic measures against Wall Street and pump as much money into the economy as needed.  Gartner advised him to only take necessary measures against Wall Street so to allow the stock market to help fuel the recovery without going overboard...  also was adamant that the US government should focus on reigning in its deficit to build its credibility and its flexibility.  Thank goodness Obama listened (for once).

I'm neither Republican nor Democrat.  I just vote for the person who i feel is best suited for office in every election.  Do i look at their policy trends and ideas?  Of course.  But i value moderates because it allows for debate and compromise.  I really thought Obama would be a moderate because he seemed to have the perfect personality for it and he appeared very smart.  He was far better than the alternatives... but i'm very disappointed.  

In any case, there are going to be good candidates for the next presidency and, this time, there are viable options to vote for.  Hopefully, the next president learns from the mistakes of this one and the others before him.
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Post by RealGunner Sun May 10, 2015 2:30 am

What a GOAT :bow: Why can't he have a 3rd term. IMO America won't see a better president in a long time.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun May 10, 2015 3:25 am

I judge presidents on the amount of memes based on them so i agree.
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Post by McLewis Mon May 11, 2015 10:04 pm

Absolutely love the Luther skits on Key and Peele Laughing

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Post by RealGunner Mon May 11, 2015 10:13 pm

How can he do stand up comedy better than half the stand up comedians Laughing

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Post by VendettaRed07 Mon May 11, 2015 10:28 pm

Lol. I will miss this man.

I think I would vote for him for a third term if I could tbh. But oh well. I guess FDR will be the only charismatic dictator we'll ever have
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Post by RealGunner Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:00 pm

I guess it is related to him

Iran nuclear talks: 'Historic' agreement struck

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33518524


Doubt any other US president would have achieved this tbh. It really is a historic deal. Peace prevailed over war Molenation

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said it was a "stunning historic mistake" that would provide Iran with "hundreds of billions of dollars with which it can fuel its terror machine and its expansion and aggression throughout the Middle East and across the globe".

rofl

Both Israel and Saudi Arabia are fuming at the deal. Laughing
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:06 pm

Obama I8SpBem
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:28 pm

May as well post Netanyahu's full statement

http://www.pmo.gov.il/English/MediaCenter/Spokesman/Pages/spokeStatement140715.aspx
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Post by Art Morte Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:39 pm

Israel really do everything they can to make then unlikeable.

I wonder if the uprising of ISIS accelerated the U.S.'s desire to strike this deal. Iran can be a good ally against the Islamic State.
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Post by McLewis Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:22 am

Yeah could be a case of the "Devil You Know"....but still this deal doesn't feel right to me. Seems very messy with far too many strings that Iran can exploit to the detriment of many.

My instincts say we're being taken for a ride here, but what concerns me the most is that we didn't try to get any of the Americans Iran has detained released. That's gotta be a huge blow for their families, who probably thought this was the best chance for that in some time.

Only time will tell just how much good or damage this will do. Gonna have a huge impact on Obama's legacy nonetheless.
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Post by Kaladin Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:34 am

Dunno what the many implications of the deal could be, but Qatar is smackdab between SA and Iran. With the historical hostility between both nations, hopefully nothing sinister happens :/
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