That guys were in 2006 ffs, when a 34 y.o Zidane dominated Xavi and Xabi in the quarters. Xavi, Xabi, Iniesta were nowhere near at the level they were in 2008 and afterwards. They were pretty average. Also, take a look at the players he played with in 2004, 2002 and 2000.

well for some odd reason, when raul left Spain won

Donuts wrote:well for some odd reason, when raul left Spain won

He's certainly not the greatest player for the Spain NT. But he is the best Spanish footballer ever

Just because people didn't hear of those players names back then doesn't mean he didn't play with good players. Around 2000 Real Madrid and Valencia were going into CL finals, which had many Spanish internationals on their sides. Valencia and Deportivo winning La Liga, Deporvito also went to the semifinal.

Not the best Spanish international, but somehow the best Spanish player? Lol

Valkyrja wrote:

Donuts wrote:well for some odd reason, when raul left Spain won

He's certainly not the greatest player for the Spain NT. But he is the best Spanish footballer ever

please go back to the madrid forums fanboy, Xavi and Iniesta strongly overpower him for "best spanish player"

Winter is Coming wrote:Just because people didn't hear of those players names back then doesn't mean he didn't play with good players. Around 2000 Real Madrid and Valencia were going into CL finals, which had many Spanish internationals on their sides. Valencia and Deportivo winning La Liga,  Deporvito also went to the semifinal.

Not the best Spanish international, but somehow the best Spanish player? Lol

Spain's success was based on their amazing group of players, who weren't nearly as good before 2008. The ones Raul played along weren't anywhere near the level Xavi, Iniesta, Xabi etc have been since 2008.

Look at their first 11 against France in 2006

Spain: Casillas, Pablo, Puyol, Sergio Ramos, Pernia, Fabregas, Xavi (Senna 72), Alonso, Villa (Joaquin 54), Torres, Raul

Both Villa and Torres reached their best in 2007, Fabregas was 18, Ramos 20, Xabi and Xavi as I said not anywhere near their best. Pablo was a sub-average full back who's free agent at the moment and I really don't know why that Pernia guy was in the squad and not Capdevilla.

U have to see some matches Raul played between 99-03, and you will realize what a player he was, and why he was compared to Di Stefano. U must be rating him based on his 04-09 perfomances, when he really dropped his level enourmously and became a poacher coming from the 2nd line.

so is Messi the best ever even without a WC?

Valkyrja wrote:

Donuts wrote:well for some odd reason, when raul left Spain won

He's certainly not the greatest player for the Spain NT. But he is the best Spanish footballer ever

   Raul will be a footnote in football's history books. Xavi will have a full chapter.

Xavi is greater than Raul and it's not even close.

Valkyrja wrote:
......................................................
Busquets ? Puyol ?   
VDB ?   Aragones was way more important than old Del Bosque.
Raul played in an era when he was their only great player. He was basically their only hope.

Few years later you will say CR played for Madrid in an era when he was their only great player. Thats why he had 3 titles in total.....  

Since when borning in the wrong era counts to be the best footballer of the country. If he missed the greatest spanish side for few years, he missed it to be the best spanish player. accept it and dont drag him into the group that had both merit and won.

Valkyrja wrote:Spain's success was based on their amazing group of players, who weren't nearly as good before 2008. The ones Raul played along weren't anywhere near the level Xavi, Iniesta, Xabi etc have been since 2008.

Look at their first 11 against France in 2006

Spain: Casillas, Pablo, Puyol, Sergio Ramos, Pernia, Fabregas, Xavi (Senna 72), Alonso, Villa (Joaquin 54), Torres, Raul

Both Villa and Torres reached their best in 2007, Fabregas was 18, Ramos 20, Xabi and Xavi as I said not anywhere near their best. Pablo was a sub-average full back who's free agent at the moment and I really don't know why that Pernia guy was in the squad and not Capdevilla.  

U have to see some matches Raul played between 99-03, and you will realize what a player he was, and why he was compared to Di Stefano. U must be rating him based on his 04-09 perfomances, when he really dropped his level enourmously and became a poacher coming from the 2nd line.

The Euro 2008 squad was , Casillas (27), Ramos (22), Marchena (29-30), Puyol (30), Capdevila (30-31), Senna (32), Iniesta (24), Xavi (28), Fabregas (21), Silva (22), Torres (24)

Keep in mind Alonso was mostly a bench player and Iniesta didn't reach his potential or hit his peak till after 2008 under Pep he become the player he is. Remove Xavi from this Euro squad no title. There was only 2-3 changes to this side. Raul was the focal point of Spain attack once Aragones decided to make Xavi the focal point history was made.

Torres/Villa weren't at their best? Torres from 2005-2006 had 13 goals for Spain in 25 games, Villa had 5 in 13. Not to mention Torres wasn't that bad of a player with Atleti in that time frame. Villa in club football from 2005 to 2006 had 48 goals and 15 assists in 86 games. From 2001-2002 till 2006 Villa was averaging 20 goals a season. If anything it was Raul holding them back.

Even the Euros 2012, Spain looked so disinterested and many players out of form, it was Iniesta who carried the team, along with Alba. Take Iniesta out no 2012 Euro wouldn't have happened.

I didn't say Raul isn't a good player of course he is, but the point here is the best in Spanish football will be Xavi, Iniesta and third can be fought for with the likes of Luis Suarez, Casillas, Raul, etc.

Spain in 2006 failed because Aragones took Xavi to the WC although he wasn't fit after tearing his knee ligaments that season and then played him alongside Alonso and young Fabregas with Torres, Raul and Villa upfront. lol Just think about it for a second:

Villa-Raul-Torres
Alonso-Xavi-Fabregas

lol

Yet the France game was wide open until the 84th minute when Henry took a dive and the resulting freekick went in.

2 years later Aragones ditched the Mehdrid chokers Raul and Alonso, included Iniesta, had a fit Xavi, provided balance with the GOAT Senna and the rest is history.

Is he really leaving?Has the club said anything?
Always thought he would retire here.Would want him to retire even with a reduced role.just cant see him anywhere else.

If there had been any chance of Xavi staying on atBarcelona, it disappeared after Spain were knocked out of the World Cup. Following the game against Chile, the midfielder began saying goodbye to his closest friends. In the early hours of this morning he sent several SMS messages explaining that his decision had already been "well studied."

The midfielder will go public with his decision upon his return to Barcelona next week, and Barça are considering a testimonial match similar to the one held recently for Puyol.

The club has no intention of standing in the way of their player leaving the Camp Nou following a meeting with the player's agent last Tuesday. He is set to join Qatari outfit, Al Arabi, although some sources report that he is off to the MLS.

Xavi had been unsure of his role at Barça next season and the club were keen to remove him from their wage bill, with the Spain international on a salary of about €13m over the next two seasons.

Xavi joins Puyol and Valdésin leaving the Camp Nou, which leaves Iniesta as the club's only captain. Mascherano, Piqué or Busquets will have to step up to the plate.

Xavi's departure will not only have an impact on the dressing room, but also on the pitch. Without him, the team will lack a certain creative flair in midfield, and with Fàbregas leaving the club too and Thiago Alcántara having left last year, there is nobody.

del Bosque wrote:Xavi has made his decision and he has confirmed to several people. He will leave Barcelona this summer and will be moving to Qatar. The transfer is certain.

Wtf is this shit Im reading they wanting to broker deal for him to go to Middle East?

Dani Alves already confirmed that Xavi will leave  

Del Bosque and Fabregas both confirmed it too.

Latest report is that he's staying. At least until the winter break.

Yea I read that too.

Means he will stay with us and play with NYFC when they get started. Makes sense for both parties involved. Still can't believe they are getting him for free (if reports are true).

If Xavi wants to leave and the only way for the team getting him is that its free, then I understand. He deserves whatever he wants and we should facilitate that if we can.

But the question I would have is, why cant New York or whoever it is, pay for him? I dont know the MLS rules or what kind of money is involved with the teams but I would be interested to know why exactly paying a small transfer fee isnt possible.

Perhaps it has to do with them knowing he wants to leave and he's at that age now. There probably also going to offer him some huge wages, which is why they may not want to pay a few millions for him. They also must've obviously spoken to him and he assured them he'll get out for free, as Barcelona can do that much for him.

They should be extra-ordinary grateful to have him, he shouldn't need to assure them of anything.

Just my opinion.

The Franchise wrote:If Xavi wants to leave and the only way for the team getting him is that its free, then I understand. He deserves whatever he wants and we should facilitate that if we can.

But the question I would have is, why cant New York or whoever it is, pay for him? I dont know the MLS rules or what kind of money is involved with the teams but I would be interested to know why exactly paying a small transfer fee isnt possible.

thats exactly my point. I dont have a problem with Xavi being granted an easy exit. But NYFC is half owned by the Man City shiek....trying to tell me that guy wouldnt purchase Xavi from us? He still has 2 years on his contract and would be a huge draw in the MLS, and still has allot of quality left. Trying to tell me that guy shouldnt have to pay for that?

If Gerrard wanted a new challenge and we wanted to sign him.

Would we get him for free?

No need to answer that

The Franchise wrote:If Xavi wants to leave and the only way for the team getting him is that its free, then I understand. He deserves whatever he wants and we should facilitate that if we can.

But the question I would have is, why cant New York or whoever it is, pay for him? I dont know the MLS rules or what kind of money is involved with the teams but I would be interested to know why exactly paying a small transfer fee isnt possible.

Because we are mes que un club and if a club legend wants to leave for a last lucrative contract we won't stand in their way.

Other clubs understand this and won't pay for anyone.

I think there is a middle ground between not standing in their and being taken for a ride time and time again.