Re: Transfer Rumours Thread

by urbaNRoots Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:02 am

EL Patron wrote:I agree that its a step down in quality but at least we will have an experience body out there. The problem is there aren't a lot of quality full backs out there, no kids grows up saying I want to be a full back. The modern day fullback is an average Winger or midfielder converted into a defender. We will be lucky to find a fullback who is as reliable as Sagna, Richards on a loan deal might be a good solution. If he does well then a permanent signing if not we continue with Jenks.

This!

People don't understand that I don't want Micah Richards really (I've made my point about him in the summer), he just seems the best option for the price he could be available. Who ever we want to sign to replace Sagna is going to cost more than what Sagna wants and most likely won't even be as good. It's a shitty situation. If we spend too much on a fullback what about signing a CB or two, the expensive striker, Draxler, goalkeeper etc... we have to be cheap somewhere because we don't have unlimited funds like Chelsea, City or PSG.

We got lucky that we had Gibbs when Clichy left but will the situation be the same again with Sagna? I can see Bellerin or Jenkinson becoming our first-choice RB in 1-2 years (whoever makes the bigger step), that's why we need a short-term solution rather than signing an expensive fullback who's going to block those two.

If Wenger didn't waste so much money on Draxler we could afford a good RB, but Wenger seems keen to sign him Rolling Eyes

by MJ Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:05 am

Sagna's demans are pretty extravagant, about £150kpw over 3 three years but he's priceless.

Quality for those years and time for Jenkinson and Bellerin to mature, could mean we wouldn't have to sign anyone after him. Still worth it.

by Hapless_Hans Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:36 am

You can't pay him that if that is more than anyone else, really. That's a bad example to set.

However unless he's inclined to leave, I'm sure he should settle for something in between.
Getting the same as your upper earners, like 100k-110k if we follow Jay's numbers, should be appropriate and deserved, given his position and importance. Or even a little more.

What I don't really get is always this fuss about contract length (not just at your club but elsewhere too).

Is it really that common that a regular starter player, team pillar, suddenly becomes an expensive liability when he goes from 32 to 33 years, and because he's got a 3 year instead of 2 year contract?
Usually they continue to earn their money's worth, no?

by Chumlum Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:10 am

Sagna has been at the club longer than most players. He's also one of the most consistent players around - he's basically had one subpar year, and that was in the wake of two leg breaks. Dude's a fighter and a real professional.

150k/wk for three years is steep, but from here in my armchair, I would not be opposed to 100-120k if that's what it takes to keep him. Even at three years. Let him retire at Arsenal in 2017, even.

A few rumors from junk sources:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/369637/EXCLUSIVE-Arsenal-want-Everton-boss-Roberto-Martinez-to-take-over-from-Arsene-Wenger

http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/08/arsenal-told-they-must-pay-25million-to-sign-alvaro-morata-from-real-madrid-4476038/

http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/11/arsenal-open-talks-with-anderlecht-over-cheikhou-kouyate-transfer-4531028/

by Sina Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:02 am

Kouyate?gotta be atleast better than Ashley Williams lol

he played vs PSG in CL right? wonder how he fared hmm

by MJ Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:06 am

150kpw is excessive, yes. Arsenal's initial offer was 100kpw. So meeting him halfway or even capitulating a bit (130) would still be worth it.

Can't think of any who would deserve it more.

by EL Patron Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:44 am

His demands are just too much, if you go around Europe you won't find a defender in his 30's earning that much. The club is right to say no and not compromise then again Sagna is right to ask for a raise for all the years of loyalty and consistency he has given us.

by REWB Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:37 pm

Its amazing how someone can never have enough money lol. seriously how is an extra 50K going to change your life significantly when you earn 100k? humans :facepalm:

by MJ Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:14 pm

REWB wrote:Its amazing how someone can never have enough money lol. seriously how is an extra 50K going to change your life significantly when you earn 100k? humans

Yeah, we can say that, but it's supply and demand. Entertainers and athletes earn absurd salaries but they're such a small number of people with a massive demand for their services. Sagna is a great defender with tons of experience, he's getting lucrative offers and he's asking Arsenal to match them

And being 31, he knows this contract is his last one before he loses his source of income for most of his life, football. That's how most aging athletes look at it anyway.

by lenear1030 Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:29 pm

REWB wrote:Its amazing how someone can never have enough money lol. seriously how is an extra 50K going to change your life significantly when you earn 100k? humans

I understand your argument, but just from a numbers perspective there's a big difference with that extra 50k. These wages are on a per week basis and that increase is 50% of the current 100k you mentioned.

Of course that 50k isn't going to change their life significantly, but if the player CAN get that money that's incredibly hard to turn down

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:06 pm

Sina wrote:Kouyate?gotta be atleast better than Ashley Williams lol

he played vs PSG in CL right? wonder how he fared

They got battered 5-0 didn't they lol?

Anyway Sagna is good but he's not 100k good lol, if anything you could improve as a side with someone who isn't completely impotent with the ball and his status as a defensive god is overstated.

It won't be as hard to replace him as you all think.

by Hapless_Hans Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:00 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Sina wrote:Kouyate?gotta be atleast better than Ashley Williams lol

he played vs PSG in CL right? wonder how he fared

They got battered 5-0 didn't they lol?

Anyway Sagna is good but he's not 100k good lol, if anything you could improve as a side with someone who isn't completely impotent with the ball and his status as a defensive god is overstated.

It won't be as hard to replace him as you all think.

that Debuchy fellow ticks all the boxes hmm

by MJ Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:06 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Sina wrote:Kouyate?gotta be atleast better than Ashley Williams lol

he played vs PSG in CL right? wonder how he fared

They got battered 5-0 didn't they lol?

Anyway Sagna is good but he's not 100k good lol, if anything you could improve as a side with someone who isn't completely impotent with the ball and his status as a defensive god is overstated.

It won't be as hard to replace him as you all think.

Underestimation of the century. He's gotten pretty damned good at crossing and creating space on the right. Still one of, if not our most athletic player and the experience is something that can't necessarily be bought, experience at Arsenal anyway.

And 100kpw isn't even in discussion, Arsenal have acknowledged that that's below the minimum they'd have to pay to keep him. In a league where Ashley Young is on 120k, you're going to have inflation elsewhere lol.

by Sina Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:40 pm

Draxler with 2 Pre-Assists tonight Razz

by Sina Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:56 pm

Sebastian Jung has a £2.5 million release clause?
urban do you know if true?

by REWB Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:15 pm

MJGunner wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Sina wrote:Kouyate?gotta be atleast better than Ashley Williams lol

he played vs PSG in CL right? wonder how he fared

They got battered 5-0 didn't they lol?

Anyway Sagna is good but he's not 100k good lol, if anything you could improve as a side with someone who isn't completely impotent with the ball and his status as a defensive god is overstated.

It won't be as hard to replace him as you all think.

Underestimation of the century. He's gotten pretty damned good at crossing and creating space on the right. Still one of, if not our most athletic player and the experience is something that can't necessarily be bought, experience at Arsenal anyway.

And 100kpw isn't even in discussion, Arsenal have acknowledged that that's below the minimum they'd have to pay to keep him. In a league where Ashley Young is on 120k, you're going to have inflation elsewhere lol.

i agree with mole, sagna is a good player, great defensively and has improved his crosses, but technically he is poor, with the ball he doesnt offer much, look at guys like alba, dani alves and marcelo etc on the ball, they offer so much more. whenever sagna is pressured high up he struggles and gives the ball away or just passes back to the gk. we can upgrade on sagna if we look hard enough.

by RealGunner Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:21 pm

Sina wrote:Sebastian Jung has a £2.5 million release clause?
urban do you know if true?

Think I read that somewhere too.

by MJ Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:53 pm

REWB wrote:

i agree with mole, sagna is a good player, great defensively and has improved his crosses, but technically he is poor, with the ball he doesnt offer much, look at guys like alba, dani alves and marcelo etc on the ball, they offer so much more. whenever sagna is pressured high up he struggles and gives the ball away or just passes back to the gk. we can upgrade on sagna if we look hard enough.

Yeah but you just named two leftbacks and a winger who just so happens to play rightback. Alba is very overrated because he plays for Bayern. Yes, he's very good but by virtue of being young and a Bayern starter he's cultivated a reputation that exceeds his actual talent level. Imo.

I really wouldn't take anyone else for Arsenal given that he already ticks all the boxes, I don't see improvements really, maybe players who could potentially be better but we have Bellerin for that, he's Alves 2.0

by urbaNRoots Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:03 pm

Nah Jung's €2.5m release clause was for summer 2013, since then he signed a new contract and removed the clause (atleast that's what the German media reported back then).

However if we want to sign him, he won't cost too much considering that he'll have one year left in his current contract this summer.

But then why sign ANOTHER young RB when we have two really good young RB's already here?

by Jay29 Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:11 pm

Call me old fashioned, but I feel that, even in today's game, having fullbacks that are actually competent defenders is important. One of the reasons for our improved defence is that our fullbacks are both good defenders and don't fly forward all the time. It's true that Sagna isn't the greatest ball carrier and that we've often criticised him for not being effective enough going forward, but in his time here it's hardly effected our ability to score goals.

Attacking full backs become important when you've got a narrow attack, which we've had a lot this season due to the absence of Walcott and Chamberlain, but we'll have both fit next season so width shouldn't be as much of an issue. With that in mind, you don't necessarily need a fullback that's great going forward.

by RealGunner Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:23 pm

REWB wrote:

i agree with mole, sagna is a good player, great defensively and has improved his crosses, but technically he is poor, with the ball he doesnt offer much, look at guys like alba, dani alves and marcelo etc on the ball, they offer so much more. whenever sagna is pressured high up he struggles and gives the ball away or just passes back to the gk. we can upgrade on sagna if we look hard enough.

Disagree there mate

Sagna is technically fantastic and he is a very underrated passer(see appendix 1). You can always trust him with the ball. See the difference when Jenkinson plays at RB compared to Sagna. Or When Lauren used to play and then compare it to Sagna. Sagna is probably one of the greatest RB we have ever had in our history. There are many who achieved more than him but Sagna is a better player than even Lee Dixon and Pat Rice.

You can count on your fingers the amount of times Sagna has let us down. Which would be around 5-6 times in 6 years. And all of that due to a reason. Like his poor form when he had a double leg break. But since that he has been in top form. I can't remember Arsene ever letting a defender handle two players at the same time. Sagna is good enough to take on the Winger and the fullback by himself. Why we rarely ever ask the RW to cover for Sagna in comparison to the LW. Or Arteta/Flamini always hangs towards the left side compared to our right side.

Replacing Sagna will be a huge huge task. Not just because there is an apparent lack of RBs but because Sagna's aerial ability is hard to find while looking at the Right Backs as most are barely 5'8 these days drilled in going forward. People don't talk about it much but the amount of times Sagna has been crucial in aerial dominance is staggering.

It's true he is slowing down a bit and his double leg break along with age isn't helping but I would be really surprised if we can find a replacement for him who is an upgrade.

appendix 1

Spoiler:

by RedOranje Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:06 am

1 gif is hardly a fair representation of Sagna's overall ability, honestly. I could state that Kolo Toure is a fantastic passer and post the two assists he got or state that he's a fantastic defender and post gifs from the opening couple of matches of the season, but that would ignore his mistakes and troubles.

by urbaNRoots Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:58 am

Sagna has improved so much in his attacking game, his crosses actually beat the first man and he has a few assists/chances created this season - it's clear he's working with Giroud on that.

People going on about Marcelo, Alaba, Alba - ask what Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern fans think about those 3. All 3 of them get targeted in big matches because they're a liability in defence. I want my fullback to be able to defend first of all, and offer something offensively when he can - just like Gibbs or Sagna.

The man is a proper beast, if he hasn't decided to leave already we should do everything we can to extend his contract.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:20 am

Are you asking me? I wouldn't swap Alaba for anyone, love the guy.

by MJ Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:35 am

Fair, I don't know how Alaba came up in an RB discussion but I wouldn't want to swap Bac for anyone other than Lahm or Zabaleta purely because his attacking play is fapworthy.

As was mentioned, with Ox, Theo, Gnabry etc. we would do well to re-sign Sagna or get someone who's also a more balanced defender. An attacking-minded fullback is unnecessary.

by Mr Nick09 Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:53 am

I would also say that i am fairly happy with Marcelo individually now, he has come a long way. What he missed for so long in madrid was support on his wing from CR, and it doesnt matter who you are, you wont survive 2v1 on your side of defense. As he gets older, he naturally gets better, it's not rocket science.

Crude reality is that there is no full proof right back out there. You will miss Sagna's experiene because there is no subsitute for that (well unless you sign Arbeloa Proud

). Defense is 50% the discipline of the player himself and 50% what the other players do to support him when he goes forward, specially with the young guys. Ideally you renew him, but if he wants too much money (who offers him that much btw?) then here is a list of right backs: Danilo, De Sciglio, Chambers, Clyne, Coleman, Pisczek, Debuchy, Oscar de Marcos (not sure what his release clause is), Hugo Mallo, Serge Aurier, Corchia, Joao Pereira...

I look at that list and Debuchy or Pisczek are no brainer to me. Both upgrade the quality of your team on that wing.

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