Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked: Now at Celtic

by Curtinho Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:36 pm

I'm not taking the game lightly. I'm just saying we shouldn't go in playing afraid because that's what's been causing problems already. We're not a team built to sit back and defend or play not to lose. Liverpool needs to take the game to the opponent and play an attacking style of football, win or lose. That's what Rodgers is good at and what he knows how to do. I think fan and media pressure is getting to him a bit this year.

I think people just need to give him and ownership a little more faith. Rodgers' start with Liverpool is not that dissimilar to the rise of one legendary manager for United.

by sportsczy Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:46 pm

as i mentioned in the Liverpool section, comparing the circumstances and the era in which SAF started (no free agency, limited to 3 non-domestic players, etc.) to an era where a team has 100+ mil to spend on whoever he wants is very inaccurate. Back then, you were forced to build internally and the way the market was structured made change a much slower process. You also had Serie A that was, by far, the richest and best league in the world... so even if you wanted a foreign player, you likely had to wait for Serie A to pass on him.

EPL is by far the richest league today and can outspend anyone other than the super elite. So when a team dumps 100+ mil on a bunch of new signing and the manager is responsible for deciding on those... then it's totally normal that the immediate expectations are very high.

That said, losing Sturridge was a big blow. BUT, counting on Lambert and Balo to back him up was plain stupid. I won't even mention Lovren and Markovic.

If Rodgers wasn't the architect of the transfers to go along with his managerial duties, then the criticism would be far, far less.

by McAgger Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:57 pm

Brendan has spent around 250m in 2.5 seasons since he's been at Liverpool.

250 *bleep* MILLION POUNDS.

This angle that our other players are scrubs is such a stupid argument. He's the *bleep* idiot that's brought them to Liverpool. His big marquee targets for this summer were Lovren and Lallana. I mean this idiot literally made them his top priorities and now Lallana can't get a game. How can Lallana not get any sort of faith shown by the manaager when he's the one that wanted him here so badly. When he first came he literally pleaded for us to let him sign Borini for 12m and now when we only have 1 striker fit in the whole squad he doesn't even put him on the bench.

He couldn't build a sand castle let alone a football team.

I'm so done.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:01 pm

Abramovich wrote:Fraud of the decade living off Martinez' good work.

He's not looked too clever this season either Laughing

by Curtinho Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:01 pm

Oh please, Ferguson bought plenty of talent back then when he first started at United:

In the 1987–88 season, Ferguson made several major signings, including Steve Bruce, Viv Anderson, Brian McClair and Jim Leighton. The new players made a great contribution to a United team who finished in 2nd place, nine points behind Liverpool. However, Liverpool's points lead had been in double digits for most of the season and while United had lost only five league games all season, they drew 12 games and there was clearly still some way to go before United could be a match for their north western rivals.

United were expected to do well when Mark Hughes returned to the club two years after leaving for Barcelona, but the 1988–89 season was a disappointment for them, finishing eleventh in the league and losing 1–0 at home to Nottingham Forest in the FA Cup Sixth Round. They had begun the season slowly, going on a nine-match winless run throughout October and November (with one defeat and eight draws) before a run of generally good results took them to third place and the fringes of the title challenge by mid February. However, another run of disappointing results in the final quarter of the season saw them fall down to mid table.

During the season, United played in friendly matches against the Bermudan national team and Somerset County Cricket Club as part of the Bermudan team's tour of England. In the match against Somerset, both Ferguson himself and his assistant, Archie Knox, took to the field, with Knox even getting on the scoresheet. The match remains Ferguson's only appearance for the Manchester United first team.

For the 1989–90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb, Mike Phelan and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister and winger Danny Wallace. The season began well with a 4–1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap ... ta-ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[60][61] Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game", as United ended the decade just outside the relegation zone.

Again, not dissimilar to the start that Rodgers has had with Liverpool. The era has changed, but even still I would argue Rodgers is in a worse position with most elite players not wanting to come to Liverpool (how different would they look with Sanchez as opposed to Lallana). You can say that they spent whatever amount of money, but no amount of money can make up for losing both Suarez and Sturridge when players of their caliber won't sign with Liverpool.

by sportsczy Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:09 pm

Yeah... plenty of good players. It was the final season for Strachan, Whiteside, McGrath and Moses. Not to mention that the squad had little depth and was forced to sign and play Donaghy from Luton Town and Milne from Bristol City over the winter.

SAF got an aging squad with little depth. He spent 3-4 years transitioning kids into the squad while veterans left.

IF Rodgers was developing kids like SAF did, then i'd be less concerned. But he's not replacing players with youngsters is he. He's signing guys who are supposed to contribute right away like Lovren, Markovic, Lambert, Moreno, Balo, Sakho, etc.

SAF was known as a manager who trusted and developed Man U's academy.

Again, don't compare the incomparable.

by Curtinho Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:28 pm

So buying all of Bruce, Anderson, McClair, Leighton Webb, Phelan, Pallister, Wallace, Ince and Hughes was just developing youth and using an aging squad? Cantona who was key to bringing United to prominence was also brought through the Academy? This is nonsense.

Also what? Lambert was a PR move, and every other player that you listed is 25 or even younger. Rodgers has done a lot for bringing in and trying to develop youth. All of these players were signed under Rodgers:

Fabio Borini (21), Joe Allen (22), Oussama Assaidi (24), Samed Yesil (18), Daniel Sturridge (23), Philippe Coutinho (20), Joao Teixeira (20), Luis Alberto (21), Iago Aspas (26), Simon Mignolet (25), Kolo Toure (95), Mamadou Sakho (23), Tiago Ilori (20), Ricki Lambert (96), Adam Lallana (26), Emre Can (20), Lazar Markovic (20), Dejan Lovren (24), Divock Origi (19), Alberto Moreno (22) and Mario Balotelli (24).

So outside of Aspas and Lallana none of them had yet hit their prime years (26-30), or in most cases come even close, and Toure and Lambert were both for experience and definitely not to be relied upon. There is a huge youth movement at Liverpool right now, and he's also given starts to the likes of Raheem Sterling, Jordon Ibe, Jon Flanagan, Andre Wisdom, Joao Teixeira, Suso and Sebastian Coates. He has also brought a great number of academy players up to train with the first team and even be on the bench for games like Rossiter, Trickett-Smith, Wilson, etc. etc.

I'm not comparing them as managers yet, but their starts are very comparable.

by Glory Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:34 pm

El Cujo wrote:

Again, not dissimilar to the start that Rodgers has had with Liverpool. The era has changed, but even still I would argue Rodgers is in a worse position with most elite players not wanting to come to Liverpool (how different would they look with Sanchez as opposed to Lallana). You can say that they spent whatever amount of money, but no amount of money can make up for losing both Suarez and Sturridge when players of their caliber won't sign with Liverpool.

How certain are you with this point? Perhaps Lpool board and Rodgers didnt really try to sign any elite players after all.

As far Sanchez goes, right from the time when the story broke out that he is unsettled at Camp Nou, he repeatedly insisted he only wanted to a move to the Gunners. It was like Moysieh going after Fabrigas last season. You tried to win an already lost battle.

And then because you had Champs League football this season you sacrificed quality with quantity by adding depth. Abandoning the plan altogether of signing elite talent. You could have gone for some other players.

And the reason why I am saying this was possible is because of that chart someone posted in one of the threads recently that you guys are in the top 3 when it comes to paying Player's Agent fees in the league. If that can be afforded why not player salaries ? And I am not talking about chaps with mega wages like the ones from Mehdrid and co. There are a lot of world class players whose wages are below 200k and in that range. For a club like Pool its very affordable IMO.

I genuinely think it was Rodgers' fault by not doing proper research when it comes to getting players. He only looked in one direction.

by futbol Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:17 pm

Don't call me James wrote:Brendan has spent around 250m in 2.5 seasons since he's been at Liverpool.

250 *bleep* MILLION POUNDS.

I had never realized this. I've just checked it up on Transfermarkt and it seems true. Says about € 280M gross and about € 140M net spending. I did a quick comparison with Barca and Barca spent the same, gross and net, even if we account the "real" Neymar fee instead of the official € 57M. And the football God knows we were far from genius on the market in recent years with Song, Vermaelen, Douglas, overpaying for Mathieu etc.

by sportsczy Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:28 pm

SAF made the kids REGULARS... he didn't loan them out or bury them on the bench. He put them on trial by fire and took his lumps for a couple of years while the kids got seasoned. Who is Rodgers throwing in the fire for development other than Sterling???? And these are Man U youth academy kids and guys who played at lower teams when very young... like Ince, Giggs and Irwin. He also brought great buys like McClair from Celtic, Schmeichel from Brondby, Steve Bruce from Norwich City, etc.... none of these guys had hype.

Every year, he made smart moves with few bad ones... the Cantona purchase from Leeds was brilliant for example.

It's unbelievable to me that you're comparing SAF to Rodgers.. you saw SAF's plan from the start. He came mid-season in 1986 and he started winning trophies by 1989. He went from 1989 to 2001 winning at least 1 trophy EVERY SEASON.

by Curtinho Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:56 pm

I'm not going to keep arguing the personnel decisions. I think you're glossing over his buys and using the era argument against Rodgers without seeing that the same argument is what encouraged playing home grown young players a lot. Where is Manchester United's youth core now?

sportsczy wrote:It's unbelievable to me that you're comparing SAF to Rodgers.. you saw SAF's plan from the start. He came mid-season in 1986 and he started winning trophies by 1989. He went from 1989 to 2001 winning at least 1 trophy EVERY SEASON.

So it took SAF 3 years to win a trophy taking a mid table team to 2nd and then back down to mid table in the process (after buying a bunch of high profile players) and the fans were demanding his sack. You could see his plan from the beginning? Give me a break, that's such revisionist history. You can say the same thing about Rodgers right now with all the youth he's brought in and his attempt to build a philosophy of attacking football at Liverpool...just read what Suarez has said about him. Flanagan was a first team regular until he got injured and probably would be still if not for said injury, Sterling is a baby, Coutinho is really young, Henderson grew leaps and bounds under Rodgers, Sturridge turned into an elite striker, Suarez became one of the best players in the world...what about Manquillo and Moreno? Even Allen is quite young still.

The thing is that in today's world nobody wants to wait for things to take action. Almost guaranteed if Ferguson started today he would have been fired before any kind of 'plan' can be implemented. Liverpool doesn't have the resources to think instant gratification or short-term, they aren't Chelsea or City or United.

But I guess Rodgers doesn't promote youth,

by B-Mac Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:25 pm

lol where is are youth core?

Blackett, McNair, Januzaj, Wilson have all been in the team to some extent this season...Luke Shaw was a buy but still a young teenage player we brought in and plays every week when fit.

those are all teenagers...more then the 20 year old something "Youths" you have been going on about

and 4 of the 5 of them have actually came through the Academy

by Nishankly Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:41 pm

by Helmer Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:36 pm

Rodgers has borne the brunt of the criticism but said he was working hard to turn the corner.

"I think the message from me is clear: I don't think there would be anyone better to do the job here," he told several national newspapers. "Seven months ago we nearly won the title unexpectedly, I had time to work with players and we took them beyond where the club has been in a long time.

"This has been a difficult start with new players, less coaching time, young players; we are virtually starting again. I don't think there is anybody better equipped to deal with that having been here for the last two and a half years and experienced what this club is about and seeing what we get from the players whenever we are at our best.

"Criticism comes with the territory when you don't win games. Football is very short term. The same people who are criticising me now were maybe saying I couldn't do anything wrong six or seven months ago. That is the way football works. You have to accept that as a manager and fight even harder to bring success. This period has ensured I will do that for sure."

by Art Morte Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:42 pm

How can he say "we are virtually starting again" when he's been our manager for 2.5 years... If you re-start every two years it's not going to work out, is it?

by McAgger Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:51 pm

Oh wow *bleep* this man. Get him the *bleep* out of my beloved the club. Jesus, go *bleep* yourself with that mentality. He spends 250m and then says that.

by McAgger Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:18 pm

"I don’t think there would be anyone better to do the job here,” Rodgers said

That's what he said in the same interview rofl

Please sack this miserable *bleep*.

Spoiler:

by VendettaRed07 Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:17 am

l watched American Beauty this weekend. For some reason l just pictured Rodgers as kevin spacey the whole movie.

by M99 Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:51 am

VendettaRed07 wrote:l watched American Beauty this weekend. For some reason l just pictured Rodgers as kevin spacey the whole movie.

Spacey's daughter is McAgger imo

by CBarca Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:53 am

VendettaRed07 wrote:l watched American Beauty this weekend. For some reason l just pictured Rodgers as kevin spacey the whole movie.

Was talking about that movie with someone just minutes ago hmm

what a coincidence.

Some cringe worthy quotes from Rodgers there. Acknowledge that you should probably be doing better with the amount of money spent and the players at your disposal pls

by MaraVilla Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:42 am

take L.E off barca's hand so messi can take over as manager/player ffs

by fatman123 Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:01 am

Trying to compare Rodgers and SAF rofl

Don't ever change GL Proud

by Red Alert Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:15 am

fatman123 wrote:Trying to compare Rodgers and SAF

Don't ever change GL

Better coach than SAF they said, better than SAF ever was they also said. rofl

by Helmer Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:21 pm

I still cant believe that the same manager had got us 2nd last season. I am just wondering, how can he achieve 2nd just by fluke. He has certainly been making mistakes after mistakes in this season, ...we have been unlucky today but d result clearly shows that we are not doing it the right way !!!

by mr-r34 Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:25 pm

We weren't unlucky, we were shit.

It's not unlucky when your only make shift striker misses a bunch of chances, his just shit a finishing like i've been saying this whole time.

by iftikhar Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:36 pm

mr-r34 wrote:We weren't unlucky, we were shit.

It's not unlucky when your only make shift striker misses a bunch of chances, his just shit a finishing like i've been saying this whole time.

Raheem scored 10 goals in 38 games last season. Most of the time he was playing along side Suarez or Sturridge (or both) who would get most of the attention.

Now Rodgers expects he will become some prolific striker over-night.

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