[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

M99 wrote:Anti-Jon is like five or six people (Bowen, Othell, the septon, some of their cronies). I hope Jon as Ghost rips all of their throats out.

Btw speaking of Mance, there is a new theory that he is Rhaegar

well , yes Jon still has loyal people to him .. But these 5-6 you mention , those who plotted to ceasar him , will be in charge of the Night's Watch after Jon , if they ever get the chance at least , a fight with the wildlings seems inevitable.. Pyp and Grenn , Satin , anyone loyal to Jon , wouldn't be ordering or deciding anything. Wouldn't even be considered for command or anything like that. So if there's a NW left standing and it's the group who assasinated Jon in charge , they have no reason to put him in the ice cells. For what , to wake up as a wight and kill him again ? No , the NW won't put him in the ice cells .

Anyway , the issue over Jon's body is narratively solved on it's own with wildlings vs NW , which is coming if Jon's last chapter is any indication. Wildlings win the fight , Mel has the body . NW is obliterated , maybe a dozen or so notable survivors are left standing , which i think most of them would run away from the Wall. I guess guys like Pep and Grenn , or Edd , would still be there if not killed.

I am almost sure , even though i know i shouldn't be , that once Jon wakes up , the NW will be destroyed , at best a few remnants of NW brothers and some wildlings , maybe. Jon's death is a way to move him away from the wall and this notion conviniently solves anything for Jon . Everything is set in place for his final act in the story , which begins with Jon free of the wall and his vows , again , rather conviniently for my liking.

Of course imo , nothing more.

M99 wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:Frey pies? Did Wyman poison those "missing" Freys?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Frey_Pies/Theories

Just when you thought you could not like Wyman any more

Some other things that are easy to miss. Abel the singer in Winterfell is Mance Rayder, the three eyed crow is Brynden "Bloodraved" Rivers, Jon Connington is gay and was in love with Rhaegar, Ser Robert Strong is the frankenstein version of The Mountain, The Hound might be the Gravedigger in Quiet Isle, Jaqen H'ghar is The Alchemist in AFFC prologue/Pate in AFFC epilogue, Alleras in The Citadel is Sarella, one of the Sand Snakes in disguise. Then there are theories of course like R+L=J, Aegon Blackfyre, The Grand Northern Conspiracy.


Oh and Dante, there are a lot of people in the Nights Watch that like and respect Jon. The only people against Jon were the senior officials like Bowen Marsh and Othell Yarwyck. The Queens men has no respect for him but the rest of the Nights Watch like the new recruits and the wildlings all supported him. They can store him in the ice cells if Melisandre says she can save him. I think he will be put on the ice cell because of a vision Bran had about him.

Btw Jon's death ruined me lol. I felt like crying after I read it.

Wow,  you don't *bleep* with Manderly, should've catched the Rat Cook reference but atleast I knew about Mance and the spearwives since he started singing The Dornishman's wife and Gregorstein was not hard to guess for me either.

But the The Hound is the gravedigger in Feast(?) I was pissed when he "died" damn and Pate = Jaqen H'ghar? Didn't fully get the ending of that Prologue so Jaqen stole his face, what the hell is a Faceless men and a hidden Sand Snake doing at the Citadel? Something's going on there.

Speaking of these identities, any ideas who the hooded man at Winterfell could be? I'm hoping it's the Blackfish somehow.

Hooded man in winterfell = http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/27sjho/spoilers_all_the_hooded_man_in_winterfell_is/

I have this funny , pure crackpot and bathed in tinfoil theory playing inside my head these days , about the The Dragon must have 3 heads . 99% tin foil , but i'll just share for the lolz. It's half arsed , don't expect any superbly detailed theory here .  

Aegon ( The Prince that was Promised ) Elia Martell .

Daenerys ( Azor Ahai Reborn ) Ashara Dayne .

Jon ( The Last Hero ) Lyanna Stark .

How is that related to the The Dragon must have 3 heads ?

The Dragon (Rhaegar Targaryen) must have 3 heads ( 3 chilldren ) .

Rhaegar is described as the dragon all his life , a dragon was said to be born the day Summerhal burned. They tried to fulfil the prophecy and they all burned.. but the dragon was born and was not a literal one , but a Targaryen , Rhaegar. All Rhaegar did was because he was convinced he was the TPTWP / AA . Later on he realised he was wrong , but he was the Dragon the prophecy talks about . He didn't attempt to have 3 chilldren because he thought he was AA , by the time he understood there must be one more and that the dragon has 3 heads , he knew he wasn't AA/TPTWP ; and if he clearly knew he wasn't AA or TPTWP , why continue . It's because he knew he was the Dragon of the prophecy and realised heads=children , needed a 3rd one after Rhaenys and Aegon. All of this was set forth by Rhaegar , whom without none of this would come to be. He played his part as the Dragon and had fulfiled his part with the 3 chilldren he left behind him and then perished.  

I believe he had 3 chilldren , from 3 different mothers , exactly like AA attempted 3 times to forge lightbringer in 3 attempts . Which btw , i am pretty sure there's an excellent theory which proposes that the whole legend isn't about an actuall sword , rather child birth. I will link it when i find it again , although i am certain Dosto has already posted it in the thread.

I came to make the connection about heads-chilldren from something i heard one day whilst i was waiting to get my cigs.. there was a dude who was talking with another next to me and at some point he says " what else can i do , i have 3 heads to feed " . After a few secs i was like , WOT DID U JUST SAY M8? Not sure if this phrase is common elsewhere , but i made the connection pretty fast

So here's what i think , in the tourney at Harrenhal , Rhaegar was the one who dishonored Ashara and not any of the Starks and that was before the Knight of the Laughing Tree (Lyanna) pops up in the story . Ser Barristan THINKS it was a certain Stark , because he saw said Stark dancing , flerting , something with Ashara . In truth , Rhaegys thought Ashara would give him the 3rd head , after being told Rhaenys and Aegon was the last children Elia would ever have. Why Ashara? Because the bleeding star and all that made him think is related to the Dayne's sigil , a falling star e.t.c . And he bangs her at night to leave her pregers for the 3rd . Sadly for Ashara who was the bomb , then he meets Lyanna and thinks he was wrong about Ashara , although he wasnt . Nevertheless he clearly thinks it is Lyanna he needs to shag for the 3rd . He then falls in love with Lyanna , speedx10 , Lyanna pregers , Tower of Joy = Jon. Rhaenys dies and only 3 children of Rhaegar the Dragon live today, the 3 heads of the Dragon . These are Aegon , Daenerys and Jon , each of them having a massive role to play in this prophecy .

Aegon was the prince that was promised ; all his life he was prepared to be the perfect king and he was and is a prince promised to bring peace to the land again.

Jon , the last hero who defeated the others and put an end to the long night.

Daenerys , Azor Ahai reborn , having already woken actuall dragons out of stone , reborn amidst smoke and salt through a magical one time ritual-miracle , through fire and blood.

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Dante wrote:Clearly the biggest flaw and stretch is Daenerys being Rhaegys child. Big leap i know . This is my attempt to justify how the story went. Tin foil most certainly , but imo , if i am right about the Dragon and his heads , Daenerys is somehow Rhaegar's child . This is just my take on it , take it with a big pinch of salt (and smoke) .

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Isn't it funny how little to nonexistent Daenerys thinks of her mother all this time? She rarely has thoughts about her mother and when she does , it's brief and seems sooo distant. Weird . She thinks more of her mad father and LOVES Rhaegar without ever knowing him *the irony* , but doesn't feel close to her mother at all , nor does she ever miss her. But she clearly has stronger feelings for Rhaegar than any of her 'parents' . Daenerys thinks of her mother like 3 times in the entire story , it's because the author doesn't want us to think about it . Isn't it also funny Ser Barristan who loved Ashara for years , even vividly thinking to himself how he can still she her as if she was standing in front of him , says when he looks at Daenerys as if he is looking at Ashara and that she has her eyes ?

Isn't it also funny Viserys NEVER acts like a brother to Daenerys ? He never considered her like a true brother considers his sister , mad or not , a real brother would never ever think of having his sister raped by an army and their horses just to get what he wants. Viserys was horrible and a dick , but not yet quite mad as Mad king level mad , although he later came to be , close to the end. I am already rereading Daenerys chapters untill Viserys dies and when read from that point of view , that Viserys knows that Daenerys ISNT his sister , makes a substantialy different read , actually making Viserys a proper ass who used Daenerys as a tool , not just a cruel man... Also , the phrase "sweet sister" , becomes increasingly obvious why is used so much by Viserys.. it's used ironically by Viserys and fits perfectly to the whole scenario.

Viserys knows his mother died giving birth to a child in Dragonstone , he was there and was old enough by Westeros age standards to know Daenerys isn't his sister. I believe the true sister of Rhaegar and Viserys and child of Aerys and Rhaella died in Dragonstone during birth , along with the mother . Both Aerys and Rhaella were very old and the child must have been very weak , hence the whole tragedy . Viserys then left for Braavos with Ser Willem Dary , where at some point in time later on the Dornish secret marriage pact was made , which had Viserys marrying Arianne , and also Daenerys with Quentyn ( iirc ) Well , how was Daenerys involved in all of that ? Daenerys was involved as Rhaegar's child through Ashara Dayne but was made to believe she was Rhaegar's sister , because a bastard would have no place in the royal family if the Targs reclaimed the throne later on , therefore would weaken Viserys's claim if she ever took her as wife. But as his little sister , who was presumably borne on Dragonstone and no one else knew any better ? Who would later marry a Martell and noone would know she was a bastard ?

Daenerys was hidden in Dorne up untill that point and when the secret marriage pact was to be made , she was sent along with Oberyn in Braavos , to be given to Ser Willem Dary for safety reasons . Purple eyes , silver gold hair , people would have noticed as she got older . Afterall , Martells are targaryen loyalists , they wouldn't let Rhaegar's bastard perish like that. They are known to be cool with bastards there afterall , never mind a targ bastard , so i find it possible Ashara or someone else from her family took the child to Doran and Doran hid her in the Water Gardens . Ned also comes to play , he looked the other way when he returned Dawn to the Daynes , we know how he can't tolerate innocent children to be harmed .. even years later when he is hand of the king and Daenerys is still far , far away , he can't . That's why the Daynes respect him so much , even though opposite sides in the rebelion and even though he loved Ashara , he let the child live and looked the other way. I don't know what happened to Ashara Dayne , but the stillborn child in this story wasn't Ashara's , but Rhaella's .

Daenerys also remembers the house with the red door and the lemontree , except these things do not exist in Braavos where she thinks she was , but in Dorne. Hidden in the Water Gardens . Something last to close the tin foil like i ought to .

There was only one other Daenerys in the entire history of Westeros . And she was married to the Prince of Dorne and lived her entire life later in Dorne. The Water Gardens were made for her , where Ashara's targ bastard was being hidden. GRRM said Daenerys was named by her mother.. Why would Rhaella before she die , would name that child Daenerys? No connection to Dorne , absolutely none at that time. She's clearly dying in pain and her entire world is destroyed . And she names her Daenerys . Except she didn't .

Daenerys Targaryen was named by her mother Ashara Dayne , because of the connection with the Water Gardens and her being a Targaryen . Ironically enough , Daenerys doesn't know about Water Gardens when she learns of the place from Quentyn , but all her life she does remember a lemontree outside of the house with the red door , which the Water Gardens are described to have plenty there... heyyooooooooo . Daenerys took her name because she was a Targ hidden in Dorne at the Water Gardens , which were made for the first Daenerys , the Princess .


/removes tinfoil hat

She threw open the door.   “... the dragon... "   And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. “The last dragon,” Ser Jorah’s voice whispered faintly.  “The last, the last.” Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.

Could this be a blatant hint that her father is Rhaegar ? The offspirng of the last Dragon , the Dragon of the prophecy ? And she saw her own face , because her father was Rhaegar. As for the Dragon=Rhaegar , again , that the Dragon in The Dragon must have 3 heads is Rhaegar , is beyond doubt certain if you ask me .

And also in the HOTU , she's been described , among other things , as child of three . Child of three? Well , the Daenerys we know is already a child of three , what does that matter to the prophecy and visions and all that apocryptic stuff? Everything in there matters. Especially during this prophecy phase , she gets in there to learn and apparently , she always knew she's a child of three. But does she ? Which 3 exactly ? Are we supposed to believe Viserys was also important to the grand scheme of things through an ancient prophecy , since he was also a supposed brother of the three ?

No . Daenerys is a child of three , one of the 3 of the Dragon . And if the Dragon is Rhaegar Targaryen , which i would bet actuall money that he is , somehow Daenerys must be his child .

I am going crazy with all the tin foil? I'll see what else i can find .

That's very well thought and you make some great points about Daenerys' name, her resemblance to Ashara and I especially like Rhaegar being the dragon who's children are the 3 heros who'll save Westeros one way or another.

My one problem with the theory is that the timeline seems wrong, The tourney at Harrenhal when Ashara was dishonored happened about 3 years before Daenerys was born, I could be wrong but if somehow this could make sense I'd definitely buy it.

Rhaegar's children being the 3 heads can still work even without Dany, if we consider Aegon real, Jon and someone else we don't know about yet long shot I know but yeah.

Well Tourney at Harrenhal was in 281 AC . and ,

asoiaf wiki wrote:An unknown amount of time later, Lyanna Stark was seemingly abducted by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen

According to my tinfoil , Ashara should already be pregers by now , but..

The timeline of the rebelion was close to a year . And then we know , Rhaella fled to Dragonstone after the battle of the trident , which was near the end of the whole thing . 9 months later she presumably died on child birth . Well , GRRM said in the past that Daenerys is like 7 months older/younger to Jon . I think it was younger , but for the life of me i cannot track the quote down . Somehow i had forgotten that earlier ,

If it's older , the whole thing definitely works with the timeline . The timeline that Dany is older by some months to Jon. If she's younger , which i think she is actually younger to Jon by some months , then it doesn't . At least Rhaeger didn't bang her in Harrenhal . Tourney + time + The timeline of Robert's rebelion was close to a year , meaning if Rhaegar+Ashara did it at Harrenhal , then Dany should have been born before the end of the rebelion .

Ashara had that stillborn , at least that's what we know , near her death. Soon after she presumably fell of that tower , 2years after the Tourney . Tourney was 281 , she died 283. So , we can at the very least Rhaegar didn't actually bang her at Summerhall. Or can we ? Ser Barristan says a 'Stark' dishonored her at Harrenhal , BUT THE ACTUAL BABY CAME 2 YEARS LATER ? U Wot Ser ?

I don't know ffs , it' all so difficult to make sense. I'll need to do some proper research and reading to make any sense of this , if there's any .

I know one thing for certain however . Daenerys IS one of the heads of the dragon . She's the one who hears the whole thing there . She has dragons . She IS the last dragon . The Dragon must have 3 heads , that's Rhaegar who must have had 3 children .

Maybe Lyanna had twins and one looked a proper Targ , was given to Ashara/Dayne's by Ned , story goes on the same ,just with Dany's mom being Lyanna But it can't be because GRRM said Dany is younger than Jon for like 7 months? Or was that older.. fml , could not find that quote for the life of me.

I don't know what it really happened , but fkn Rhaegar was the Dragon of the prophecy and had 3 children before he died. This is what it means , unless i am given evidence for this , this is canon in my book. Why this is nagging me so much . Well Daenerys , the child of 3 ? Child of 3 means only one thing to me , the 3 heads of the dragon . The 3 children of the Dragon=Rhaegar , therefore = siblings. Timelines don't concern me so much , as there are so many things we don't know and maybe the devil is hiding in the details . As far as this concept of 3h-3c stays correct .

EDIT , last thing i didn't mention about the 3rd head.. which i read in another theory , which suggests that Rhaegarchys didn't die on the trident , fast forward he is Mance and his son with Dalla is the actual 3rd head of the dragon

Aegon , Jon and the baby Gilly has been taken care of ever since after the switch . Yeah , that's another kind of tin foil available , which leaves Daenerys out... but still allows for 3 children of the Dragon , if you believe Rhaegar=Mance

https://imgur.com/a/j1mkX

Varis and Jorah in the same set? Surely this means no fAegon now?

rip

Apparently Moqorro is being axed as well

Finally we get bearded Tyrion.

Dorne looks a mess, this will be the first HUGE deviation from the books (aside from Stoneheart which can still happen but won't), I hope it works although disappointed that Jaime will be in Dorne for most of the season when he should be keeping the peace in Riverrun Arianne is cut and so is Quentyn, and although I can understand Quentyn, Arianne is supposed to have quite a role in WoW as she's POV.

There's still the possibility of Aegon... if you believe that Trystane = Aegon will be Varys' big reveal on the show. Supposedly a big character which D&D are trying to hide will show up in Dorne and most believe that is Varys.

RealGunner wrote:Apparently Moqorro is being axed as well

No he's not:

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2014/10/19/game-of-thrones-enlists-lost-alum-and-flashbacks-for-season-5/

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

RealGunner wrote:Apparently Moqorro is being axed as well

No he's not:

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2014/10/19/game-of-thrones-enlists-lost-alum-and-flashbacks-for-season-5/

I think they are combining Moqorro and Bennero.

Yea Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje isn't being hired for playing Moqorro. That's why I made that post.

They are making a new character for the show only apparently.

They are giving him a new name but it seems likely that he'll play the moqorro role.

Some big Season 5 Meereen news put in spoilers just in case someone doesn't want to know:

Spoiler:

urbaNRoots wrote:Some big Season 5 Meereen news put in spoilers just in case someone doesn't want to know:

Spoiler:

Apparently the Tyrion sitting with Dany pic was taken when the bast was on a break. Notice the plastic water bottles, they were not shooting a scene.

That's probably a decent explanation to it

However I can't help but think that Tyrion meeting up with Daenarys is fantastic for TV viewing. I am sure that idea came across them and we might see that much sooner than later in the Show compared to the books.

Yeah GURM has stated that Tyrion and Dani will spend most of the book apart. From this point onwards I really think the show will have little relevance to the book in most storylines, it seems that the only one that is remaining unchanged is the Wall.

Most of TWOW?

Damn, i wanted them to meet asap

M99 wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:Some big Season 5 Meereen news put in spoilers just in case someone doesn't want to know:

Spoiler:

Apparently the Tyrion sitting with Dany pic was taken when the bast was on a break. Notice the plastic water bottles, they were not shooting a scene.

Thought so too but then photos of his doubles emerged sitting in the same place with the other doubles:

Spoiler:

It's happening and I'm not sure it's necessarily a bad thing, I'll have to watch the scenes first. I just hope it's not Tyrion doing Barristan's stuff after Dany flies off, the man deserves some glory because in the show he's been a bit useless so far.

Pretty sure their ship had a cabin in it. And the river was described much differently.

It's official, no Iron Islands in season 5.

http://watchersonthewall.com/iron-islands-plot-omitted-game-thrones-season-5/

FFS I liked those chapters tbh.