[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

M99 wrote:From Lena Headey's instagram.

http://instagram.com/p/nEeNM0PA3L/#

Shits about to get real

Not sure what they are going to do about Baelish and Sansa given their story is pretty much over compared to the books.

They still have some stuff.. politics in the Eyrie.
After that we either have WoW or... well bookreaders get spoilered.

M99 wrote:Gotta say, A Song Of Ice And Fire Reddit is hilarious

Gregor looks like a WWE villian

WAIT, IS THAT THE RAINS OF CASTAMERE I HEAR??

BAH GAWD KING THOSE EXTRAS HAVE FAMILIES!

HE BROKE ELIA IN HAFFF!

AND NOW THE RED VIPER IS ASKING FOR A MICROPHONE!

DID HE? OH MY GOD HE DID, HE POISONED TIPPED HIS SPEAR! HIS SPEAR! SOMEONE LOOK THAT UP IN THE RULE BOOK BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A DISQUALIFICATION.

OH NO, THE MOUNTAIN IS GOING INTO THE CROWD!

OH MY GOD ITS SANDOR CLEGANE! WHAT THE HELL IS SANDOR CLEGANE DOING HERE?

VINTAGE HOUND!!! OUTTA NOWHERE!!!

HE'S NOT EVEN SCHEDULED TO BE IN THE BUILDING TONIGHT! BAH GAWD, WE ALL THOUGHT HE WAS UP BY THE TRIDENT!

a bit late , but . lmfao

as for Stoneheart.. when i read she died i felt relieved. I couldn't stand her. When i read she came back as a zombie and that Dondarion which i liked since day 1 , gave his own life for this...

Out of all the people that could return as a resurrected zombie , he chose her , the worst of shits.

have my hate , dear GRRM sir . At least she's at her true form and nature now , she won't fool people anymore

zigra wrote:They still have some stuff.. politics in the Eyrie.
After that we either have WoW or... well bookreaders get spoilered.

Wow, crazy to think they would have to linger on that for so long...

I expect Winds Of Winter to be released before season 5 so I think we will see Winds material from Sansa next season.

Characters leaked for Game of Thrones season 5, with new details

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/05/23/characters-confirmed-game-thrones-season-5-new-details/

Dante wrote:as for Stoneheart.. when i read she died i felt relieved. I couldn't stand her. When i read she came back as a zombie and that Dondarion which i liked since day 1 , gave his own life for this...

Out of all the people that could return as a resurrected zombie , he chose her , the worst of shits.

have my hate , dear GRRM sir . At least she's at her true form and nature now , she won't fool people anymore

Tell me about it, I was so angry. The only time I've ever been angrier when reading the books was when Oberyn bottled the fight against Gregor, but reading that Stoneheart had come back came oh so close to beating it. I'm getting angry just thinking about it now.

Speaking of Oberyn though, the deception that is about to come. Everyone is convinced he'll win, the reaction to the next episode will be priceless, the other thread is going to be overflowing with rage.

On the leaked info M99 posted, who the hell will Obara fight?

Interesting that they'll actually include a scene with Maggy the Frog, I guess it's difficult to convey the prophecy without a flashback.

I have a strong feeling Arya's final test will be to offer one of her siblings to the Red God, most likely Sansa. Can someone pls remind me of how a man of Jagen H'ghar's talents came to be captured in the first place?

dostoevsky wrote:

Dante wrote:as for Stoneheart.. when i read she died i felt relieved. I couldn't stand her. When i read she came back as a zombie and that Dondarion which i liked since day 1 , gave his own life for this...

Out of all the people that could return as a resurrected zombie , he chose her , the worst of shits.

have my hate , dear GRRM sir . At least she's at her true form and nature now , she won't fool people anymore

Tell me about it, I was so angry. The only time I've ever been angrier when reading the books was when Oberyn bottled the fight against Gregor, but reading that Stoneheart had come back came oh so close to beating it. I'm getting angry just thinking about it now.

Speaking of Oberyn though, the deception that is about to come. Everyone is convinced he'll win, the reaction to the next episode will be priceless, the other thread is going to be overflowing with rage.

it's one thing to see a likeable and possibly a fan favourite character die. A bad end it may be , but what that character has been remains the same to the reader , still fond of , perhaps even more after he dies. To see a character you despise and find inatractive and annoying and occasionaly at fault for major stuff that happen mostly to others , finally dead , only to find out later on that character is still alive and has become even worse...

It's like giving a lollypop to a little girl , then take it back from her , shove it up your arse , then hand it back to her . That's how i feel Martin treated me with Stoneheart

Anyways , i've been quitely reading the thread next door ... oh my sides when they come back to post waves of bitter & raaagee about Oberyn , lmfao ...  

it will be hilarious , cant wait for that. Though , i will also feel sad again for Oberyn , such a cool character and Pedro Pascal has given him justice. Brightens up the screen.

@@@@ Ninja. Dat #Sig_Of_Brotherhood  

Agreed about Pascal Dante, his portrayal has been near-perfect. The only thing keeping him from an Emmy is the perfection that was Dinklage this season.

Also Ninja, I personally feel that it's likely Arya will end up getting herself killed by either refusing an assignment or for over-extending herself and killing someone she wasn't meant to. I feel that she'll attempt to break away to help her family in the end, and she'll succeed in helping her family go on, however it will personally cost her.

Rossoneri Ninja wrote:I have a strong feeling Arya's final test  will be to offer one of her siblings to the Red God, most likely Sansa. Can someone pls remind me of how a man of Jagen H'ghar's talents came to be captured in the first place?

i think (could be wrong tho) , that this was his purpose ? To get close to someone . idk i don't remember , even though i am pretty sure he was in disguise , what was his name.. Pate , was it? not sure it was him , damn i need to read the books again

As for Arya , i always expected her to end up in Braavos after her encounters with JH , although i never had that much of a clue what she trully would end up doing and i liked that .

Having said that , the cliche notion that she will return to haunt and seek revenge against those who wronged her family seems meh to me and i always hoped and expected that to end up differently. It has to be more than that , it's asoiaf we're talking about . Because if we take a cynic look at it , yeah , all this time she's been having intense ninja training to become a messenger of death.. trained in the wayzz of the ancient Ninjazzz

yeah so unique , bah gawd dem chills

It's fair to say , although nonetheless interesting what happens to her so far , unless her course takes a dramaticaly different course after leaving Braavos , it will be boring as fk. I don't want to see her have the canon revenge , i want to see her suffer for becoming a monster , i want to see someone from her family having trouble to accept what she has become , possibly fail to get her revenge against the Lannisters ( i am probably a bit biased on that) .

Ultimately , she's a stark , but a Stark of harder metal. So i'd like to see her continue the general fail of the Starks , yet impact the story in a way other than cold blooded revenge. Maybe kill her zombie mother Stoneheart , that would be a nice plot twist , instead of killing the noble and vigorous remaining Lannisters that had nothing to do with her father's , mother's and brother's death .

And Tommen might be the last rightfull king , but perhaps , just maybe , could become a good king , if by some miracle he survives what is coming after him. I am surprised really that none talks about it. The only character that has done nothing to deserve enemies , will probably pay with his life for everything his predecessors and family have done. Dat Irony. I mean , it's only me having this notion that Tommen could become a fair king for Westeros?

Possibly someone that could bring peace to Westeros , despite what his family has done all this time . The irony when he dies for his family's crimes

Well according to the Ragnorak theory, Tommen will indeed hold onto the Iron Throne, however most seem to consider him a dead man walking due to the prophecy of Maggy the Frog. I don't think we've really seen enough to speculate as to what sort of king Tommen might be when he grows to maturity. It might be positive that Cersei might lose control over him, however his path simply can't be defined by a strong mentor, he has to show some personality himself. It would have been interesting to see how Tommen would have reacted had Myrcella been crowned in Dorne, it could still potentially prove an interesting development. I feel like Tommen may well survive TWOW, however I do believe he will eventually die, though it would be nice if he had some part in his own demise rather than simply being caught in the crossfire of other people's wars.

Haven't read the Ragnarok theory.. I think Ragnarok is Norwegian mythology? Something about the end of the world , where Odyn saves the world from ice giants or something? i always lmfao reading that religious joke about it , where Odyn promised to save the world from ice giants and Jesus promised to save the world from sin ;

" I don't see any Ice Giants around "



As for Tommen , well we might not have the full picture of him , as he is so young to have a complete personality , or to know in what kind of person he will develop into . Anybody could change and that i won't even bother to argue about.

Yet Tommen has shown signs of being a stable personality , ever so young , he's been described as passionate and an affectionate youngster . Putting aside the show , where he has already been given more personal touches than the books , i think Tommen will grow up sooner than expected , especially after what happened to Cercei and Margery . And if Cercei doesn't turn him into Joffrey , which i doubt she can now , i think being with no mentor will leave him free to judge for himself. I am definitely expecting Tommen stuff in WoW , idk about chapters but i am sure he will be more involved compared to what he was untill now .

Interesting what you mention about Myrcella . I have thought of that as well , when reading . Tbh , i do think that none of them would hurt each other , in any form or way. Yet , i feel Myrcella is going to end up a much different person after what she experienced.. Not sure what Tommen would do , but from what we know so far , he wouldn't hurt his sister . I am pretty sure he's so kind atm that if it was solely up to him , he could even give her the throne itself if that's what she wanted ..

Your post made me think twice about it , but tbh , i always thought Tommen would become a good king , if he was left to be himself . Having said all that , with Varys there... yeah , he probably won't live enough to see the day .

lol

Tommen is a decent kid however I think he would be a weak king if he was mature and left to himself. I think he is most like his weak grandfather Tytos Lannister who got bossed around by his mistress and bullied by the Castameres and Tarbecks. It's Myrcella who would be the best queen. She is intelligent, kind hearted, brave very much like how her grandmother was described. It's too bad that the asshat that spurned out of the incest had to be the firstborn. Tommen>>>>>Joffrey by far.

Tommen and Myrcella will both die while being the king/queen of Westeros. Maggy The Frog got this

Good mention about Tytos . Impressed actually , never thought of Tommen like that. It's certainly a well based description of his nature , won't say personality as he still has enough to experience , assuming he lives enough to be able to .

Oh well . I don't know if it will be Maggy the Frog in the end.. but we can safely say that Tommen will officially be the luckiest bastard in the history of Asoiaf if he somehow survives what is coming after him.

War for the Iron Throne? check
Plots and schemes behind his back , meant to destroy him & his House? check
Marked by some old witch's paranormal prophecy ? check
Undead creatures coming after the world? check
Dragons coming after him? check
Not aware/No idea what to do against all that? check

Did he do anything to deserve enemies ? Nope.
Will he pay with his life? Probably yes .

Ultimately , if their deaths are trully meant to happen.. Because , i still remember reading reading somewhere(and i defo agree with this) where Asoiaf is a story for orphans.. and most noble orphans in Westeros do live to see the worst ...

What a tragic irony it would be , if the deaths of Tommen & Myrcella , happened because of the Legacy that Tywin always strived for .. that this same legacy could be the cause of Tommen's and Myrcella's deaths and possibly the end of House Lannister .. Afterall , the legacy and all the power that Tywin left behind , is in ruins . Everything is falling apart and the Lannister gold is either not enough , or not so impactful anymore..

Let's see. Tywin and Kevan are no more and there's noone except Tyrion that would be remotely capable of taking the reigns of the house . Jaime doesn't give a fk about what Tywin wanted to achieve . Cercei has long ago lost it and has done unbelievable damage to the House and to all the people near her . Tyrion is far , far away , in exile . The rest of the Lannisters are either dead or unable to change the fortunes of the House. Their friends and influence always diminish. The Martels and Doran will stand against them and the Tyrrels are this close to become officialy enemies in this war , after Varys made sure that Cercei will continue her work . The remaining Starks will never stop seeking their revenge , even with no army atm . The Boltons in the north have their own wars now and they are very far from Kings Landing nonetheless.. Aegon with his vast army is already in Westeros and Daenerys will one day finally land in Kings Landing , with Dragons. On top of all that , there's also Littlefinger , a hidden enemy who has put his hand in creating infinite chaos that had to do with the Lannisters to huge depths. A hidden enemy who will not stop before seeing their world lie in ashes and his new world reborn from within , with him on top of it. Against all that , House of Lannister has Tommen and Myrcella who are just kids , no players of the game and with few to none chances of ever becoming one. Cercei and Jaime will probably meet their fate against each other , their relationship ever deteriorates . So what's left for the Lannisters are than to burn?

I'd say their last hope , or the man who will put the final nail in the coffin , will be Tyrion .

Perhaps Tyrion's ultimate purpose in this story , will be either to save the House of Lannister from extinction.. or somehow play a huge part in it's destruction . If we see what he has done , he killed Tywin , everybody thinks of him as the devil himself , his brother who was perhaps his last friend is in theory his enemy too , Cercei would kill him with her own hands if she could.. all the rest of the world thinks of him as a kinslayer and a kingslayer as well.

He has done unfathomable damage to the name of the House and hurt it's power and influence , almost just as much as Cercei with his actions. When he sets foot in Westeros again , i believe he will come up against this situation , where he will either save the House of Lannister from destruction , or if it cannot be that , he will destroy it himself.

And the legacy that would last a thousand years , will probably not ever start it's course , because of Tywin himself. He may have won every battle and every political matter he put his hands on , he may have outwitted and outplayed every single foe and friend alike in this game , but he ultimately failed at the one thing that the last unheard of peasant was succesful. Be a normal , good father

Was all that worth afterall , the family name , all this power and wealth , the legacy of the house and it's paramount importance before anything else was supposed to mean , when the moment he died the entire house fell apart.. and that came from his own son , the very last person on earth he would expect being a threat to him . He would avoid that by simply buying him ice cream and it eat with him one day.. Tragic stuff man , such a story of feels .

If you look past the hate the lannisters get all day of the week , well , it's actually well worth to look deep into the Lannisters . I believe the Starks are the ultimate drama winners afterall , but the Lannisters are not far behind , if you are willing to see the world grey and not black and white.

This would be so awesome if it happens.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/236dsl/cleganebowl_my_alternate_theory_plus_a_few_other/

Yeap , that would be really great . Damn some people.

Dosto , i've been reading the Ragnarok theory. I like it. Even the dude himself doesn't claim that this is what GRRM actually did , but let's face it , there's certainly a very good amount of influence coming from there.

I see many familiarities with asoiaf and many of his characters share defining traits with some of the gods/giants in Ragnarok. Many of the stuff he is theorizing about are really exciting to connect together, i would love to read some(if not most) of that in the books.

I was left stunned and very impressed about what he says on Bloodraven .

This is similar to the Ragnarok theory. A Song Of Ice And Fire= Book of Revelation 12-19.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/22qaol/spoilers_all_ar_asoiaf_is_revelation_1219/

The first comment.

"Well...that escalated quickly. Normal, normal, normal, normal, Jon Snow kills everyone."

That was an intriguing read though, even if it's not what happens, I just love reading theories which reinterpret the direction of the series. It's easy to become invested in an idea such as the three heads of the dragon. This gives a nice third option against the united heads of the dragon and Ragnorak.

Dante, I agree that even if Ragnorak doesn't define the series, Martin must surely have been influenced in terms of certain details. I had also never even considered Jojen Paste before I had read the theory and whilst I'm not convinced, it would be an incredible prediction of the theory if TWOW confirms that Jojen was sacrificed.

Also thanks for posting Cleganebowl M99, I enjoyed reading it. Given that this is an entirely speculative rather than text based article it's always going to be less convincing, however I liked the idea of Brienne wearing the Hound's helm and the spin it put on a possible fulfillment of Bran's vision of the three warriors. I certainly don't find it likely that the Hound will represent the Faith in a trial and such a battle seems the perfect way to realise this event. I disagree simply with the extent to which it neatly wraps up all the characters, I don't think it would be so conclusive with regards to Littlefinger who I expect Sansa to kill in any case. The details about Gregor, Sandor, Jaime and Brienne could very well prove true though.

I didn't really find it any interesting , the revelation connection theory.. although GRRM certainly borrowed certain paths of the apocalyptic events into his story , seeing all to the end , it doesn't make that a great story tbh..

However , the first 2 parts rev-12 , rev13-part1 , no doubt match , almost copy paste. Which i think should be left exactly there . Everybody knows Grrm took inspiration and influence from basically all kinds of stories , myths , history or even comics and whatever he has read and found interesting.

The War of the Roses is the background of Westeros and the war for the throne , but is just this , the basis. Everything else is him . The Zoroastrian ancient religion as the religion of R'hllor. All the rest touches are his own.

From the Ragnarok he took the mythological , cosmo-apocalyptic main events and defined the long night ,the winter e.t.c Certainly too many of the characters share defining traits with his own , but still his own touch is what defines everything. For races and stuff , he has looked to ancient history and many cultures . e.t.c

No current book can accurately deduce what the end shall be for asoiaf , imo that is , because GRRM only took this and that from his inspirations. I am sure there are Lotr influences in his work , whether he has confirmed that or not.

If you look closely into the story , you should recognise at least at the very beginning , the essense of it , is very much alike.

Remember in Got , how it all starts? An ancient evil in the Others , is lost in legend at the time of the story , just like in Lotr Sauron had been. Forgotten and a part of legend , the only ones aware were the guardians of Middle earth (Gandalf , Galadriel , Elrond e.t.c) , yet even them weren't sure about his fortunes.. just like the watch men , the guardians of Westeros who always stood their place guarding the realms of men , though most are either reluctant/refuse to believe the Others exist .

Yet one night's watch man sees them and runs to warn everyone ; just like Gandalf run to Saruman to consult and warn about the ring .. both of them meet a bad end because of this , although Gandalf survives because he was obviously too important to the story. There are more connections , like Jon snow refusing his high command at first , just like Aragorn did .. the warrior , both never met their fathers , both were of a great past and lived many misfortunes , both come from great ancestors , and they both refuse to lead at first... Anyway , you get the point.

That he got something out of this and that , doesn't mean the entire storyline or entire arcs will have the exact copy paste build up and climax in asoiaf. Asoiaf is too big for that to even remotely work well enough.

But the thing with Ragnarok , at least that one. I think Grrm got the most of inspiration and influence from his characters and his "magic world" , from there. It certainly won't follow the Ragnarok path 100% , just like Grrm didn't create his characters based 100% from Ragnarok .. but some of the connections he makes are so reasonably made , it can't be anything else.

I don't know about their ends , but some of what he has predicted will come true. The dude even predicted what was happening with Craster's sons , more than a year(or so) ago. Almost solely connecting dots based on the magic and lore of Ragnarok and norse mythology in general.

Having that said , there are places where he simply can't connect the dots. And he never will , because Martin's own fantasy and other influences come into place , which have nothing to do with Ragnarok .

I suggest everybody here reads his entire blog . You won't regret it . I'm essientially bought with this theory , not 100% as i know better , but certainly for a good part of it.

dostoevsky wrote:The first comment.

"Well...that escalated quickly. Normal, normal, normal, normal, Jon Snow kills everyone."

That was an intriguing read though, even if it's not what happens, I just love reading theories which reinterpret the direction of the series. It's easy to become invested in an idea such as the three heads of the dragon. This gives a nice third option against the united heads of the dragon and Ragnorak.

Dante, I agree that even if Ragnorak doesn't define the series, Martin must surely have been influenced in terms of certain details. I had also never even considered Jojen Paste before I had read the theory and whilst I'm not convinced, it would be an incredible prediction of the theory if TWOW confirms that Jojen was sacrificed.

Also thanks for posting Cleganebowl M99, I enjoyed reading it. Given that this is an entirely speculative rather than text based article it's always going to be less convincing, however I liked the idea of Brienne wearing the Hound's helm and the spin it put on a possible fulfillment of Bran's vision of the three warriors. I certainly don't find it likely that the Hound will represent the Faith in a trial and such a battle seems the perfect way to realise this event. I disagree simply with the extent to which it neatly wraps up all the characters, I don't think it would be so conclusive with regards to Littlefinger who I expect Sansa to kill in any case. The details about Gregor, Sandor, Jaime and Brienne could very well prove true though.

Jojen (idk about his sister) has no other purpose to fulfill in the series. No reason to exist anymore , he cannot tell Bran or any of us , any other important stuff we or Bran must know. He doesn't even know more than Brand now and his irrelevant to anyone else in the story . He's dead. His new mentor is Bloodraven now and there's no way he's making it back alive , absolutely no way. He was made dinner to Bran and that's also a gruesome , vicious , very asoiaf-like end. Especially if you believe into what the Ragnarok dude says about the connection in blood magic & cannibalism , that this is what would make Bran stronger and give him power (it did actually , he begun to see stuff ..). This has to be his end .

I don't expect to see him again , especially when i always insisted that Bloodraven has always been much , much more than that. He's an evil character and is in no way with the good guys. The only fact anyone needs , is that he was Aemon's great uncle , yet he never spoke a word of him to anybody. And Aemon spoke a lot of the past , a relative he hold dear or worthy , would have been mentioned . They even got to the wall together as we know.. yet nothing about Brynden Rivers.

Or , go figure why there's no mention of him in the Night's Watch history of Lord Commanders , where he has actually been a Lord Commander... No word either about any Lord Commander Brynden Rivers. Why didn't he warn the Night's Watch about the rise of the Others , or at the very least Aemon ? That's because he's an evil pos , who wants to see the world of men burn , just like Loki wanted to see the world of the gods burn and was a catalyst in Ragnarok.  

Bare in mind that Loki was the trickster . If we accept the connection here , Bloodraven is making Bran his tool and his end will definitely come from Bloodraven , if you ask me .. After reading all that , i am almost 100% sure that Bloodraven will cannibalise on Bran in the end , just as Bran did on Jojen. I can't know what purpose Bran has to fulfill , perhaps he may play his part into bringing the wall down ? It has to be something huge for Bloodraven's plans , to bring him in person there , just because the three-eyed crow has been huge to the reader and Bran.. Bloodraven certainly didn't seek Bran and get him there only to Greensight.. i am dead sure about it. For starters , it's a lame end to his storyline and there's no way Grrm would allow this. Bran is being played a fool by Bloodraven and he's actually on the wrong side now. What i only can deduce from all that is , ultimately , Bloodraven needed Bran to strengthen his plans somehow and that he will meet a very bad end in Bloodraven's hands .

I now don't expect Bran to survive the TWOW , because even if his theory turns out the biggest crackpot , the stuff he mentions about Bloodraven has to , in it's majority , come close to the truth.

Actually Craster's sons being The Others were in the book.

Gilly was crying. “Me and the babe. Please. I’ll be your wife, like I was Craster’s. Please, ser crow. He’s a boy, just like Nella said he’d be. If you don’t take him, they will.”

“They?” said Sam, and the raven cocked its black head and echoed, “They. They. They.”

“The boy’s brothers,” said the old woman on the left. “Craster’s sons. The white cold’s rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don’t lie. They’ll be here soon, the sons."

Btw you guys will appreciate this theory known as Ajorah Ahai

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1xk337/spoilers_all_so_about_that_guy_who_captured_a_lion/

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1xqwrl/spoilers_all_ajorah_ahai_part_2/

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1xgw3l/spoilers_all_i_guess_you_could_say_im_on_a_jorah/

Another theory. Daario=Euron.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/253zbx/is_daario_reallyspoilers_adwd/

At least it makes more sense than Daario=Benjen