Not for long I hope.

Ok so going with Rodgers most preferred formations in the run in of last season


4-3-3:



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


4-4-2 (Diamond):


*player can/should still be sold/loaned.


Assuming we actually complete Lovren, Moreno, Remi deals. I think that squad can easily get top 4 and even stick around the top for a while. But I still think we're an amazing attacker away from winning the title.


Bench: Sterling, Lazar, Agger, Enrique, Johnson, Allen, Can, Remi, Lambert, etc

That team under BR is favorite for the title imo.

Only thing I can't agree with is your use of Coutinho in a full CM role in the diamond. That's simply asking for other clubs to exploit the space he'll leave on the left side, especially if/when Moreno gets forward. In a diamond I would expect one of Allen or Can to partner Henderson in CM.

As things stand this is what I see as our 'best' starting XI and bench:


I don't really see the need for much else besides a new leftback. I'd prefer to see Flanagan start, but I know Johnson will get favour over him. I like it. Deep in pretty much every area with some question marks, but I think the young guns will step up big this year.

RedOranje wrote:Only thing I can't agree with is your use of Coutinho in a full CM role in the diamond. That's simply asking for other clubs to exploit the space he'll leave on the left side, especially if/when Moreno gets forward. In a diamond I would expect one of Allen or Can to partner Henderson in CM.

  

-----Gerrard-----
Henderson-Lallana
----Coutinho----

Mignolet
Johnson - Lovren - Sakho - Enrique
Henderson - Gerrard - Coutinho
Sterling - Sturridge - Lallana

Just switch the bold ones   .

Lallana would be caught out doing the same thing but? lol

Don't call me James wrote:Ok so going with Rodgers most preferred formations in the run in of last season.

Why would you sell Reus?   

Well, Lallana doesn't play midfield and Coutinho does. Coutinho won't need to be as responsible because Lallana does track back a lot on his flank though. I think it's best the way I had it, but we'll see what Brendan thinks.

guys in that formation either Cou or Lallana, both will get caught out and that is where Hendo's engine will come in handy. So either Gerrard will try to cover the space and Hendo will fill the void created by Gerrard or simply Hendo will do depending upon the situation. But for me

Cou in MF and Lallana on wings>>3 times> opposite of that

Coutinho had a few fine performances as CM last season, I remember one game in particular where he was making a lot of tackles, winning a lot of balls and overall defending with a very fine attitude. I'd like to see him play CM occasionally this season, too.

Coutinho did well in an attacking CM role in a 4-3-3 last season. Not once did he play a full match, much less impress during one, in direct CM role in a midfield diamond or pivot.

Massive, massive undeniable difference between those two roles.

RedOranje wrote:Coutinho did well in an attacking CM role in a 4-3-3 last season.  Not once did he play a full match, much less impress during one, in direct CM role in a midfield diamond or pivot.  

Massive, massive undeniable difference between those two roles.

That's not really true though. He played 8 games in midfield, and while he'll always be more offensive minded and I believe Rodgers tasks him with bringing that creativity from midfield. If you look at what he's done though he definitely improved his tenacity and defensive effort as the season progressed. For example in what might have been his best game this year against Manchester City in the second half he was in midfield beside Henderson and had 8 tackles (most on the team by far, next closest was 3) along with everything else he contributed. He also played 89 minutes of that game. That's just one example, but what you are saying is factually incorrect. He's still going to be better and more consistent when used in an attacking role, but he definitely has performed as an MC as part of the diamond and otherwise. (Sorry, I feel like this came off as more rude than it was meant to be.)

Regardless as Gerrard starts featuring less I'd really like to see this team move toward more of a 4-2-3-1 with a double pivot. With guys like Rossiter and Lussey coming up and Can being added we have the type of players for it especially with our attacking midfield depth and relative shallow pool of strikers.


As the general set up for midfield/attack I think would be great. Henderson and Allen work really well together as a double pivot with their safe passing, engines and tenacity (amongst other skills).

El Cujo wrote:

RedOranje wrote:Coutinho did well in an attacking CM role in a 4-3-3 last season.  Not once did he play a full match, much less impress during one, in direct CM role in a midfield diamond or pivot.  

Massive, massive undeniable difference between those two roles.

That's not really true though. He played 8 games in midfield, and while he'll always be more offensive minded and I believe Rodgers tasks him with bringing that creativity from midfield. If you look at what he's done though he definitely improved his tenacity and defensive effort as the season progressed. For example in what might have been his best game this year against Manchester City in the second half he was in midfield beside Henderson and had 8 tackles (most on the team by far, next closest was 3) along with everything else he contributed. He also played 89 minutes of that game. That's just one example, but what you are saying is factually incorrect. He's still going to be better and more consistent when used in an attacking role, but he definitely has performed as an MC as part of the diamond and otherwise. (Sorry, I feel like this came off as more rude than it was meant to be.)

Regardless as Gerrard starts featuring less I'd really like to see this team move toward more of a 4-2-3-1 with a double pivot. With guys like Rossiter and Lussey coming up and Can being added we have the type of players for it especially with our attacking midfield depth and relative shallow pool of strikers.

Henderson/Can - Allen/Rossiter
Sterling/Markovic - Coutinho/Suso - Lallana/Ibe
Sturridge/Remy

As the general set up for midfield/attack I think would be great. Henderson and Allen work really well together as a double pivot with their safe passing, engines and tenacity (amongst other skills).

It IS true though. There is a huge difference between offering consistent pressing from an attacking position and tracking back at times, and playing in a deeper role from the beginning which requires more discipline, effective positioning, and sacrifice toward the attacking instincts.

Coutinho has NOT ONCE played in the latter role for us. NOT. ONCE.

And there's absolutely no reason to expect that he will in the coming season.

Except he has, and I already provided an example of when he did in the diamond, and he played more than just one game there (probably closer to 10, and he was very good there). So again, that's not true.

You didn't provide an example, you threw out a match where you suggested he did something he did not and expected me to just agree... which I don't. He played once again as the most attacking of a midfield three and even then we struggled at times to hold onto midfield until Allen came on.

Coutinho has never played as a CM for us.

Red Alert wrote:Coutinho has never played as a CM for us.

Yeeees, he has, for instance in this game:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26703761

Line up was:

Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Flanagan; Henderson, Gerrard, Coutinho; Sterling, Sturridge, Suarez

There's a difference between playing as a CAM and CM ffs.

Yes, and in that game against Tottenham Coutinho played CM

Same as the game against Manchester City. You think that Gerrard was playing a double pivot with Henderson?

For some examples:

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720833/Live/England-Premier-League-2013-2014-Liverpool-Manchester-City (the game where he made 8 tackles leading the team, and was MotM).
http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720753/Live/England-Premier-League-2013-2014-Liverpool-Swansea
http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/803987/Live/England-FA-Cup-2013-2014-Arsenal-Liverpool
http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720731/Live/England-Premier-League-2013-2014-Liverpool-Arsenal
http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720806/Live/England-Premier-League-2013-2014-Liverpool-Tottenham (the Tottenham game Art is referring to).

Honestly.

Like I said, he played as a CM probably close to 10 times this year and did very well there. Of course he's always going to be more attack minded because that's the type of player he is, but that doesn't mean he wasn't based deeper. I actually liked watching him from that position because it seemed he had more space to dribble and make runs which he loves to do (he needs to get his fitness up though). Rodgers helped him make huge strides in his defensive game, too, as evidenced by his performance against City (the extreme example, where he was a beast).

There are few games where he played as a part of MF-3 and that position is a CM, of course he always had more freedom compared to the likes of Hendo or the compared to the likes of Allen when he came on as a substitute. I am sure you can check his hit map also and it should show the same

Jesus RedAlert this is by far the worst revision of history on your part. I can't even laugh at this one. It's just sad.

Multiple times last season we played a midfield 3 of Stevie, Hendo and Coutinho. Coutinho's role in those game wasn't an AM as you imply. He was actually playing more of an attacking minded box-to-box if you will. But He definitely wasn't an outright CAM.

Completely agree with El Cujo here.

As I've stated multiple times now, the attacking-most role in a 3-man midfield is still a far far cry away from playing a true CM role in a diamond. That applies to BOTH matches that you have brought up. In both cases Coutinho was NOT operating in a B2B CM role in a diamond or 4-4-2 or anything of the sort, he was operating as the attack-oriented midfielder in a 3-man midfield.

RedO what you are saying there implies that Coutinho was an AM in those games. And you ARE wrong. I have most of our games all saved on my computer and I've rewatched especially the matches against Spurs, Arsenal, Everton multiple times and he does play as a CM that provides the creative spark. Henderson in fact makes runs forward more often than Coutinho while Coutinho finds space mostly just ahead of the Stevie deep lying area.

Not, what I'm STATING is that Coutinho playing in a 4-3-3 midfield, set up like:
in which he had far more license to move forward and play a part in attacks than Henderson did, thus playing the more attack-oriented role in that midfield. He was NOT in a sole CAM role but he most certainly wasn't in the traditional CM role that one sees being performed in the 2 CMs in a diamond midfield.