Red Alert wrote:Torres
Suarez Gerrard Kuyt
Mascherano Alonso

I don't get the point of this post in relation to us being a selling club, half the names on the list all forced their way out, can you just accept that it's not only our clubs situation that plays a part in them leaving and the rest left at the right time.

To be fair, if Barcelona or Madrid come knocking every club is a selling club.

Yes, the selling club discussion is pointless.

If I take an optimistic but not-that-far-from-reality view of the situation, our squad at the start of the season could/would be:

GK: Mignolet, Bogdan, Ward
RB: Clyne*, Joe (CB), Wisdom (CB)
LB: Moreno, Flanagan, Enrique
CB: Sakho, Skrtel, Lovren, Ilori, Toure
DM: Emre, Lucas, Allen
CM: Henderson, Milner
AM: Coutinho (L/RW), Firmino (LW/SS, WF)
R/LW: Lallana (WF), Ibe, Markovic
ST: Sturridge, Bacca*, Ings, Origi (WF)

1. There's 28 players and we can only register 25. I guess Joe will be loaned-out. Flanagan would be another one outside that list since he will not available till 2016 (if earlier reports are true). Would Allen be on his way out? But I'm really uncomfortable with rumors (not great sources though) that Markovic might be loaned-out.

2. I see 14 players (in bold) with starting quality. With luck, we will have another seven (in italics) who would be great for cover and competition. So all in all, we will have good depth and tactical options.

1) Sell Lovren
2) Sack Rodgers
3) Emre isn't a DM, he's a box-to-box ala Henderson. Allen isn't a DM either. And Lucas is better than both of them lol. And Firminho will be wasted on the wings.
4) Didn't really read the rest.

The way I see it...



Origi can easily rotate with any of Markovic, Ibe or Ings. Very solid. The other option of course would be to go back to the diamond:


Just ignore RA's criticism he has no idea what he's talking about. Legitimately thinks Lucas is better than Henderson and Can

Cujo wrote:Just ignore RA's criticism

Don't provoke him into further hyperbole, please. We are having a bit of good time.

As for your formation,

1. I think Milner will play centrally though his jersey # may suggest otherwise.

2. I think Coutinho will play AM while Firmino will be something like SS/WF.

3. The 442 seems to optimize our present squad.

Ifty, you cant separate El Cujo and RA, I explained my theory already

iftikhar wrote:

Cujo wrote:Just ignore RA's criticism

Don't provoke him into further hyperbole, please. We are having a bit of good time.

As for your formation,

1. I think Milner will play centrally though his jersey # may suggest otherwise.

2. I think Coutinho will play AM while Firmino will be something like SS/WF.

3. The 442 seems to optimize our present squad.

I think Milner will be shuffled around due to his versatility, but will definitely spend a lot of time deeper. I agree about Firmino being more of a SS or WF (hence the second formation) but with the 4-2-3-1 having him behind the striker it will leave space for Coutinho to cut into the middle from the left side which he is very good at doing and leaves a lot of link up opportunities. I think that in terms of 'formation' Firmino will be in that position but he and Coutinho will share the space with Coutinho as more of a creator/deeper threat while Firmino will be more direct and operating more in the final third. I like the 4-4-2 diamond, or a 4-3-1-2 with a Henderson - Can - Milner midfield. All tenacious runners with good pressing and all a little bit different in their skillsets.

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:Ifty, you cant separate El Cujo and RA, I explained my theory already

It was me who suggested that these are the same person with different accounts. But since the mods/admins couldn't/wouldn't confirm that, I had to treat them separately .

I'm actually insulted to be compared with RA. I am more handsome than this man.

Lucas is a much much better DM than Henderson and Can.

Can is wasted at DM.

He is a Yaya Toure sort of player. His instinct is always to get forward and carry the ball. That goes against EVERYTHING a DM should be. A DM should be disciplined and keeps things simple.

And if we get Bacca the squad will look a bit better, but the midfield is still average AF. We will have to play Coutinho in Midfield to get some quality, because Milner-Henderson midfield partnership is something you'd expect to see at Villa/Sunderland.

Assuming we get Bacca and Clyne, the 2 options would be:

--------------------------Mignolet---------------------------
--Clyne------------Skrtel---------Sakho-----------Moreno-
----------------------------Lucas-----------------------------
-------------------Can------------Coutinho------------------
----------------------------Firmino----------------------------
------------------Bacca--------------Sturridge---------------

OR

-------------------------Mignolet---------------------------
----------Can-----------Skrtel-------------Sakho----------
-Milner---------------------------------------------Ibe----
----------------Henderson-----Lucas---------------------
--------Firmino----------------------------Coutinho------
-------------------------Bacca/Sturridge------------------


Milner-Henderson at the same midfield will be painful, unless we're playing a top team away from home and need hustlers...but in most games when we need players who actually have quality with the ball, them 2 close to each other should be avoided.

I know Milner has been promised CM role..but we gotta be ruthless. There is a reason at City, his best games by far were at WB, and not CM....and if we tried to use 3-4-3 in some game,s he'd be an amazing RWB option as he showed many many times at City.

We really need to start selling some players too. As for Lucas criticism, He is an automatic starter for me, until we sign a player (IDEALLY) with his positional discipline who can offer more on the ball and going forward. Until then, he shits all over Allen who is our next realistic option as DM.

Sepi wrote:Can is wasted at DM.

I feel Emre is at crossroads at the moment. While what you have said about him is true, he is also good in tackles & interceptions. I feel depending on which position he is used this season, he will grow either as DM or as CM.

So I can see a lot of rotation in the squad this season with the amount of games we could potentially be playing, and the hard pressing style that Rodgers would like to implement. Our best XI (assuming, for now, we buy Benteke)? Probably this:


Firmino and Coutinho playing together is going to be really interesting. Firmino is much more direct but they're both great on the ball and represent a very big threat to beat their man/men and put a nice ball in and they both play with a lot of intensity/energy when on their game. Really looking forward to that combination.

The beauty about a set-up like that is that it can easily become a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 depending on who is being subbed onto the field or off it. Guys like Ibe, Markovic, Origi, Ings, Lallana, etc. won't be left out because it's a very fluid base.

and why should Firmino be a starter in that position of Lallana

Well, in theory, it's because Firmino is better, more productive and more proven over the last few years. Not to mention healthier and was just bought for 40m.

If it were up to me we'd run a 4-2-3-1 with Henderson - Can as the double pivot and Lallana - Firmino - Coutinho as a fluid 3 in attack behind our striker because I actually really, really like Lallana. The problem is Milner was signed to be a starter, and I doubt that Can will be benched. We also signed Firmino and Clyne to be starters so unless Can is starting on defence I just don't see where Lallana starts unless Milner/Can are benched for the 4-2-3-1.

I mean there'll be a lot of rotation anyway I think, but in our 'best XI' I don't think that Lallana will be a starter (even though I would use him in my Liverpool best XI).

I dont know but there are lot of similarities in Lallana and Firmino,
both coming from the clubs where they were sort of 'main man'
both coming from midtable teams to us
both carrying huge price tag
both having similar stats

I still think on paper, as of now, both seem to be same for me !

I wouldn't say they had similar stats.

Like last season in 41 games (2,691 mins) Lallana had 6 goals and 4 assists while Firmino in 36 games (3,191 mins) had 10 goals and 12 assists.

Previous season in 42 games (3,289 mins) Lallana had 10 goals and 8 assists while Firmino in 37 games (3,293 mins) had 22 goals and 16 assists.

So over the last two season:

Lallana: 83 games (5,980 mins), 16 goals and 12 assists.
Firmino: 73 games (6,484 mins), 32 goals and 28 assists.

Almost twice as productive really, and his other stats are all better:

Firmino vs. Lallana

So you can see I guess you could say Firmino is like a younger, better, more durable version of Lallana.

when I get some time, I would like to compare Lallanas two seasons at Southamton actually, before he came to us. I am sure Lallana would still be behind Firmino, but that will be more apt comparison imo.

He was less productive in 12/13 than he was in 14/15 (or almost exactly the same if you go by per minute).

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:and why should Firmino be a starter in that position of Lallana

Irrespective of the stats and other logic, I believe Firmino will most certainly be preferred over Lallana. Lallana, Markovic and Ibe would be squad players.

However, having such quality depth means we can go deep into Cups and EL. Going deep into Cups and EL means more games for depth players. It's up to Rodgers to manage the squad diligently.

Honestly looking over the skillset of both Lallana and Firmino, it looks like Firmino is just a rich mans Lallana. They look very similar in what they do, even their physique is quite similar, except Firmino is more productive. I would love it for the two of them to push each other to partner Phil behind Sturridge/New CF.

And both remind me of Yossi.

Don't call me James wrote:
And both remind me of Yossi.

Yossi was good, but never a real difference maker. So, it may be scary if both Lallana and Firmino remind you of him.

I don't like saying this, but I don't think it's likely that Firmino will be as big a hit as his £29m fee and his one 16-goal Bundesliga season might suggest.

I liked Yossi. And at times he was a difference maker. I remember when he was really on form, he was an undisputed starter for us. But he was inconsistent.

Anyways, it wasn't a comparison in quality really but in style of play. I just think Firmino and Lallana bring the same things Yossi and hopefully with higher quality.

As far as the formation, I think Cujo might have it right. I also see us playing the Christmas tree formation as one of the variations:


- you got one spot for the CF which will be a dog fight between a fit Sturridge and the New CF. Hopefully quality CF. This hopefully means there's always a quality CF on the bench to come in and chance the game. Origi and Ings as further depth for cups and garbage minutes.

- The 2 AM spots fought out between Phil, Bob, and Adam. Phil, you would imagine, being our best player would be the undisputed starter while the other 2 fight it off for the remaining spot. If by some chance Sterling remains, our quality here really would be unbelievable. Regardless, Ibe and Markovic as further depth for Phil, Bob, and Adam.

- The 3 CM spots, I imagine is for 3 box-to-box CMs. Rodgers doesn't seem like he likes DMs so I can see Milner, Hendo, and Can being the starters here. With Joe Schmoe and Lucas back ups. Very combative midfield but I don't know how much creativity or composure, or actual high IQ defensive coverage and play we'd get out of this lot. I agree with Sepp that the 3 players need to have different skill sets in midfield. Lucas is a true DM, I would start him since we got noone else. Kovacic would be massive because he brings something to CM we really don't have. The 3rd CM could be one of Hendo/Milner/Can. But like I said, I see all 3 starting.

- Rest is self explanatory. Honestly with both our fullbacks in Clyne and Moreno loving to bomb forward, I'm already looking forward to another 50 goals conceding season. Specially because Skrtel will probably start all 38 games

A rumour that our next assistant manager will be Sean O'Driscoll, 57, the current manager of England's under-19s.