EarlyPrototype wrote:Did you just compare Khedira to Raul?

ÖMARz wrote:I think youve got some things a little messed up. Sahin is xabis competition. Khedira only has coentrao to worry about imo

mtfootball wrote:Khedira should just play DM with Sahin and Ozil at CM.

Doc wrote:Sportsczy on 75, TMO on 50, what exactly you guys doing?

paperbackwriter wrote:

mtfootball wrote:Khedira should just play DM with Sahin and Ozil at CM.

Except Khedira isn't a DM...

Crimson wrote:Actually Sahin played as a B2B for Borussia.

Technically speaking and tactically Khedira is one of the best in the team at intercepting and reading the lines of play. Very underrated in this regard.

But Sahin is alot better, I would love to see a midfield trio of Sahin Khedira and Xabi

sportsczy wrote:

Crimson wrote:Actually Sahin played as a B2B for Borussia.

Technically speaking and tactically Khedira is one of the best in the team at intercepting and reading the lines of play. Very underrated in this regard.

But Sahin is alot better, I would love to see a midfield trio of Sahin Khedira and Xabi

I think we need to get these 3 on the field together honestly. I don't like the imbalance of a 4-2-3-1 against better midfields.

paperbackwriter wrote:Barcelona have the best central midfield in the world, with a large margin. I'm not really impressed with any other top teams midfield atm to be honest. I'd rate us as second with the Khedira/Sahin, Xabi and Özil combo. Inter and Bayern have good midfields aswell... In the two supercup games I think we showed that we can challenge Barcelona all over the field. I don't see the point in removing attacking force to reinforce the midfield... We're gonna be better this year, as shown against Barcelona, translating into higher pressure and more ball possession while facing deeper defenses. All the attacking firepower that we can handle is necessary.

And Özil shouldn't be cut the slack of learning the ACM position properly, he's a bright kid, he'll develop if he's made to play the midfield role rather than playing as a SS/free role/winger. Long term, that's what we need him to become. A great attacking midfielder who can come deep and help out aswell as finish of chances and playing in a more advanced position.

Let's think this through a little.

Ronaldo deserves some blame for the way he goes at players and corner himself, sure, that's how we have seen him play all along.

But if he did it so often in the clasico with no adjustment from Mou, then i have to deduce that he is following the plot, which is to attack straight down to wing, and providing the option, cut in or cross.

We have been able to retain more possession that usual, but we also bypassed the midfield quite lot in the build up of our attacks. To bring the ball out of the defense, we were mainly using passes along the touch line, or crossfield passes to the opposite wingers, Ronaldo or Di Maria, which resulted in those solo runs we saw.

Very few times did Pepe or Carvalho used the CM's to bring the ball out. In the very same way, When Ronaldo was running down the wing, important is to note that he was forcing down the whole barca team, the midfield was providing the best form of support, which in turn made it difficult for Ronaldo to back pass.

It's a whole support system which is at fault here. Mourinho's reluctance to play Ozil in a deeper role, closer to the CMs to improve that midfield control, proved hurtful in those periods of play we didnt like. And Alonso and Khedira's lack of technical skills on the ball dont always make them the preferred option to pass to in a crowded area.

So to me it comes down to a team tactic, our lack of control in the mid can be a little hurtful to own our game, there is no doubt ronaldo lost way too many 1v1 but i also blame the tactic.

My belief is that with an heavier midfield, 3 men, players that support the forwards just by making runs forward in the box and creating options for the cross. Instead of committing per default 4 men to attack, we do 3, and having support runs from say, Sahin and Khedira, we have the ability of creating unpredictable set ups in attack.

One other thing i saw people complaining about was the lack of runs. Well, to make runs, you need a player deep in the middle commanding the ball and monitoring things, which is something we arent doing, a drawback from playing Ozil as a CF/SS. 3-man midfield would facilitate that. It's easier for a midfield to retain possession when they have quick passing options they can differ to. A line of 3, plus wingbacks coming up on both sides, the wingers making themselves available, and a CF coming deep, increase significantly those passing options and makes it easy for the CMs to move the ball around. The longer you can hold the ball in the midfield the more dangerous you get, and runs can be made. It's the whole point of having midfield control, you suck pressure in, and the midfield can make the right passes in spaces to forwards making runs.

And last but not least, the defending aspect of a 3-man midfield would make our high tempo, high pressure style even deadlier. THe way we would occupy space, with support from corner players in both attack and defense, will create easy double teams, without breaking formation and pulling a defender way out of position without someone covering him.

I truly hope mourinho put it in motion with Sahin coming back, it's the most important step forward we can make imo. We have figure out the style we need to have defensively, now we need to match it with the formation. Our strength will come from the fact that we have midfielders that can attack, press and defend both, while we had quality, intelligence and passing from the midfield area.
by St_Nick09_of_Goal
on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:59 am

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
Completely agree about Ozil btw.

I made quite a lenghty post the other which i quote here so you can have my answer about the 433 mentioned earlier.

Let's think this through a little.

Ronaldo deserves some blame for the way he goes at players and corner himself, sure, that's how we have seen him play all along.

But if he did it so often in the clasico with no adjustment from Mou, then i have to deduce that he is following the plot, which is to attack straight down to wing, and providing the option, cut in or cross.

We have been able to retain more possession that usual, but we also bypassed the midfield quite lot in the build up of our attacks. To bring the ball out of the defense, we were mainly using passes along the touch line, or crossfield passes to the opposite wingers, Ronaldo or Di Maria, which resulted in those solo runs we saw.

Very few times did Pepe or Carvalho used the CM's to bring the ball out. In the very same way, When Ronaldo was running down the wing, important is to note that he was forcing down the whole barca team, the midfield was providing the best form of support, which in turn made it difficult for Ronaldo to back pass.

It's a whole support system which is at fault here. Mourinho's reluctance to play Ozil in a deeper role, closer to the CMs to improve that midfield control, proved hurtful in those periods of play we didnt like. And Alonso and Khedira's lack of technical skills on the ball dont always make them the preferred option to pass to in a crowded area.

So to me it comes down to a team tactic, our lack of control in the mid can be a little hurtful to own our game, there is no doubt ronaldo lost way too many 1v1 but i also blame the tactic.

My belief is that with an heavier midfield, 3 men, players that support the forwards just by making runs forward in the box and creating options for the cross. Instead of committing per default 4 men to attack, we do 3, and having support runs from say, Sahin and Khedira, we have the ability of creating unpredictable set ups in attack.

One other thing i saw people complaining about was the lack of runs. Well, to make runs, you need a player deep in the middle commanding the ball and monitoring things, which is something we arent doing, a drawback from playing Ozil as a CF/SS. 3-man midfield would facilitate that. It's easier for a midfield to retain possession when they have quick passing options they can differ to. A line of 3, plus wingbacks coming up on both sides, the wingers making themselves available, and a CF coming deep, increase significantly those passing options and makes it easy for the CMs to move the ball around. The longer you can hold the ball in the midfield the more dangerous you get, and runs can be made. It's the whole point of having midfield control, you suck pressure in, and the midfield can make the right passes in spaces to forwards making runs.

And last but not least, the defending aspect of a 3-man midfield would make our high tempo, high pressure style even deadlier. THe way we would occupy space, with support from corner players in both attack and defense, will create easy double teams, without breaking formation and pulling a defender way out of position without someone covering him.

I truly hope mourinho put it in motion with Sahin coming back, it's the most important step forward we can make imo. We have figure out the style we need to have defensively, now we need to match it with the formation. Our strength will come from the fact that we have midfielders that can attack, press and defend both, while we had quality, intelligence and passing from the midfield area.
by St_Nick09_of_Goal
on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:59 am

babun1024 wrote:
Nick, I was busy with I-no the other days and didn't notice your post Your post makes sense in theory and that's it
Benz and Ozil were pressing in upper midfield against Farca in turns, you couldn't have him 'deeper' otherwise Benz would've been exhausted after some 50 minutes
CR7 had a lot responsibility in attack because of that but he didn't live up to expectations
His selfish act ruined all the buildups in attack where he had more freedom than other 3

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:

babun1024 wrote:
Nick, I was busy with I-no the other days and didn't notice your post Your post makes sense in theory and that's it
Benz and Ozil were pressing in upper midfield against Farca in turns, you couldn't have him 'deeper' otherwise Benz would've been exhausted after some 50 minutes
CR7 had a lot responsibility in attack because of that but he didn't live up to expectations
His selfish act ruined all the buildups in attack where he had more freedom than other 3

Well, yeah, it's a theoretical excerpt, i dont expect it to be perfect.

The answer i would give you to is that, with a 3-man midfield, one of them can slide a little forward to put the choke on Busquets. having one man that can detach himself from the 3 man unit and go up or down to add number to whichever line is a nice trait no?

mtfootball wrote:How about Benzema on either wing with Higuain CF?

babun1024 wrote:

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:

babun1024 wrote:
Nick, I was busy with I-no the other days and didn't notice your post Your post makes sense in theory and that's it
Benz and Ozil were pressing in upper midfield against Farca in turns, you couldn't have him 'deeper' otherwise Benz would've been exhausted after some 50 minutes
CR7 had a lot responsibility in attack because of that but he didn't live up to expectations
His selfish act ruined all the buildups in attack where he had more freedom than other 3

Well, yeah, it's a theoretical excerpt, i dont expect it to be perfect.

The answer i would give you to is that, with a 3-man midfield, one of them can slide a little forward to put the choke on Busquets. having one man that can detach himself from the 3 man unit and go up or down to add number to whichever line is a nice trait no?

Ozil was doing it Watch the match if don't believe me We had more room through the wings but CR7 choked Di Maria was totally disappointing as well...
I'm awaiting Neymar's arrival with open arms otherwise we'll lose the upcoming encounters as well, I fear
We need someone more productive on the wing than CR7 in 90 minutes...
C'mon the other FLo, make it happen! :lol!: