Re: Barca fans: Why the obsession with Cesc by your club?

by The Franchise Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:35 pm

Doc wrote:@Dani

Since I said that quip about Fabregas not being needed, think I'll respond to suit. Midfield creativity has never been an issue with Barcelona, can't say the same for Real Madrid. What exactly does Fabregas bring that isn't already there? Granero, Gago nor Kaka haven't made any significant contributions towards Real Madrid midfield issue. Sahin (apparently) fills that obvious void.

My thoughts on it anyway. Also note, please don't confuse not a necessity with wasteful buy...

Well I ill start by saying I have long since said I dont want Cesc because we dont need him and we shouldnt be spending that amount of money on someone we dont actually need.

As for your point. I understand what your saying, but numbers wise it isnt any difference to Madrid.

We dont need Cesc, but you dont need Sahin either.

Does Sahin bring things you dont have? I am not sure..I think Alonso brings alot of the same qualities.

Do Madrid lack creativity? I am not convinced they do, at least no in terms of player talent. More a system and attacking set of principles I think.

by Mr Nick09 Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:41 pm

dude, we play a double pivot and he had no one other than Alonso who could playmake from deep. We NEEDED Sahin.

by Guest Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:44 pm

Dani... come on dude. Read my post. We have nobody to play the 4-3-3 other than Sahin. With Sahin hurt right now, we're dead if someone gets hurt. With Sahin, we have a very meh Granero and Ceontrao as backups.... and Coentrao won't learn the midfield until Nov/Dec methinks. He's a project right now.

We're forced to rely on the 4-2-3-1 exclusively, except against Barca. Against Barca, we're going to throw Coentrao in the fray and hope that he figures it out on the fly.

Xabi is also a year (max two) away from being too slow for us. So we are grooming Sahin, who is only 22, to replace him.

by alexjanosik Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:52 pm

I have never understood the Catalonian obsession with Fabregas.
The players,the local fans,the coach all wanted him.Strange.

by Mamad Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:56 pm

Xabi Alonso and Xavi are the same age no?

Xabi is 29 Xavi is 31 i think.

by The Franchise Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:58 pm

sportsczy wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Hold on, why is Sahin needed and Cesc not?

Xabi Alonso and Xavi are the same age no?

We have Thaigo, you had Canales.

You have Ozil, we have Iniesta.

Sami K, Busi.

Lass, Mascherano.

Whats the difference?

Gago was perm-injured and was already out the door. We needed someone more reliable.
Canales wanted major minutes, which we don't have to give. He's not developed enough yet. Besides, he plays only AM (cannot play CM for defensive reasons) and he had Ozil + Kaka in front of him there. We were unsuccessful in trying to sell Kaka
Lass also wanted to start because he wants to make the France NT for the Euro. We offered him an extension for more money and he refused.

These 3 players were out the door... 1 because of injury-problems and the 2 others because they wanted to.

We were only left with Xabi, Khedira and Granero... Granero is ok, but not very good. Nice depth player for our lower level opponents. Besides, we want to play more 4-3-3 and we didn't have the parts. So we signed Sahin to become our CM and Coentrao to be the replacement for Lass. We probably wouldn't have signed Coentrao if Altintop weren't injured... that made the Coentrao transaction a must.

With Leon out of favor and on his way out, we also needed another winger = Callejon

Every move we made was because of need.

Sure, but why would Gago play anyway? My point is from the numbers you need, you dont need Sahin anymore then we do Cesc.

We play, Busi, Xavi and Iniesta.

You play, Sami, Alonso and Ozil.

We can have Mascherano, Keita and Thaigo as back ups.

You could have Lass, Canales and Granero.

If Canales wants to leave, then replace him. Same with Lass.

Are you replacing Canales with Sahin? Considering Canales barely played...where do are the new minutes coming from?

by bloodless Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:59 pm

guys cesc fabregas is arguably in the top 5 MF's in world...and prolly the most creative in europe right now...they just bought him for 30 million pounds...lol thts a healthy obssession! even if they dnt need him now

by The Franchise Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:01 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:dude, we play a double pivot and he had no one other than Alonso who could playmake from deep. We NEEDED Sahin.

So Sahin i sback up for Alonso?

Why cant Cesc be back up for Xavi?

by The Franchise Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:01 pm

sportsczy wrote:Dani... come on dude. Read my post. We have nobody to play the 4-3-3 other than Sahin. With Sahin hurt right now, we're dead if someone gets hurt. With Sahin, we have a very meh Granero and Ceontrao as backups.... and Coentrao won't learn the midfield until Nov/Dec methinks. He's a project right now.

We're forced to rely on the 4-2-3-1 exclusively, except against Barca. Against Barca, we're going to throw Coentrao in the fray and hope that he figures it out on the fly.

Xabi is also a year (max two) away from being too slow for us. So we are grooming Sahin, who is only 22, to replace him.

I dont understand, its not because I didnt read.

Lets start again.

Your playing 433.

You starting mid is who?

You back ups are who?

by Mr Nick09 Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:04 pm

The Franchise wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:dude, we play a double pivot and he had no one other than Alonso who could playmake from deep. We NEEDED Sahin.

So Sahin i sback up for Alonso?

Why cant Cesc be back up for Xavi?

Because technically you had Thiago filling up that role.

I'm not denying to needed depth, but i am arguing that with Thiago, who is "ready", you didnt need a superstar like Cesc.

by Sushi Master Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:05 pm

If they play 4-3-3 they only have Lass, Granero, Gago and Altintop.

Assuming Khedira - Alonso - Sahin.

Direct replacements... Altintop - Granero - Gago?

by EarlyPrototype Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:07 pm

433 will only be vs Barca.

by Sushi Master Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:08 pm

EarlyPrototype wrote:433 will only be vs Barca.

Why? With that 4-3-3 you can dominate many smaller teams.

by EarlyPrototype Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:08 pm

Sushi Master wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:433 will only be vs Barca.
Why? With that 4-3-3 you can dominate many smaller teams.

I thought we would play 433 too but we haven't tried it out once in preseason.

by Kevin_Muscat Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:10 pm

i dont think you understand how hard it is to find players with Barca DNA. they're one of a kind.

by H.A. Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:22 pm

I think Rosell got Cesc just to make Guardiola happy, I think its one of those moves to let him sign.

I'll ask you this barca fans, do you think guardiola will sign another extension, a longer one this time around?

by Pedram Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:40 pm

The Franchise wrote:
StrugaRock wrote:Cesc is a great addition to their squad, but they really need to find another Puyol, he is their true leader that organizes their defense perfectly.

Let's be honest, Pique might be top 5/10 CB in the world but he isn't a leader.

What 23 (or he is 24, whatever) is though?

We will see if Pique is a leader or not in a few years time. Thats where players like him improve, because in terms of ability and skills he has surpassed Puyol. Its the intangable things in which he will grow from now on.

But yeah, we arent going to find a replacement for Puyol in terms of leadership or his influence on the team for outside the club.

His skills we might be able to from the outside, but his influence no.

The difference between Puyol and Pique is one thing that can't be improved or at least it's not easy. Puyol is mentally stronger than him. simple as that
When Barca is up 4-0 you won't see Pique risking his body to prevent conceding a late goal but Puyol does.

by The Franchise Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:21 am

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:dude, we play a double pivot and he had no one other than Alonso who could playmake from deep. We NEEDED Sahin.

So Sahin i sback up for Alonso?

Why cant Cesc be back up for Xavi?

Because technically you had Thiago filling up that role.

I'm not denying to needed depth, but i am arguing that with Thiago, who is "ready", you didnt need a superstar like Cesc.

Why cant Thiago just be back up to Iniesta plus have spot minutes at false 9 or winger?

by Albiceleste Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:23 am

The Franchise wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:dude, we play a double pivot and he had no one other than Alonso who could playmake from deep. We NEEDED Sahin.

So Sahin i sback up for Alonso?

Why cant Cesc be back up for Xavi?

Because technically you had Thiago filling up that role.

I'm not denying to needed depth, but i am arguing that with Thiago, who is "ready", you didnt need a superstar like Cesc.

Why cant Thiago just be back up to Iniesta plus have spot minutes at false 9 or winger?

It's Barca man, they aren't allowed to have depth on this forum. Anyone who is a substitute for Barca is ruining their career and is a flop.

by The Franchise Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:31 am

El Pipita wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
StrugaRock wrote:Cesc is a great addition to their squad, but they really need to find another Puyol, he is their true leader that organizes their defense perfectly.

Let's be honest, Pique might be top 5/10 CB in the world but he isn't a leader.

What 23 (or he is 24, whatever) is though?

We will see if Pique is a leader or not in a few years time. Thats where players like him improve, because in terms of ability and skills he has surpassed Puyol. Its the intangable things in which he will grow from now on.

But yeah, we arent going to find a replacement for Puyol in terms of leadership or his influence on the team for outside the club.

His skills we might be able to from the outside, but his influence no.

The difference between Puyol and Pique is one thing that can't be improved or at least it's not easy. Puyol is mentally stronger than him. simple as that
When Barca is up 4-0 you won't see Pique risking his body to prevent conceding a late goal but Puyol does.

Sure, but there is nothing Barca can do about that. We cant go out and sign someone that gives us what Puyol does, thats my point.

by Mr Nick09 Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:37 am

The Franchise wrote:

Why cant Thiago just be back up to Iniesta plus have spot minutes at false 9 or winger?

well, you just signed a star in the making in Sanchez that you will have to play quite a bit to get the goods from, big investment from rosell, he can play false 9 and winger. And you have Afellay that has been there for a couple of months already, also talented, young and ambituous, and can play false 9 and winger i believe.

Sure he can be Iniesta's back up, nothing wrong with that. It's just my understanding that cesc will be first off the bench to sub one of Xavi/Iniesta. I dont think Cesc will be assigned as Xavi's back up, and Thiago as Iniesta' back up. Any opening will be good to get cesc the minutes he commands, and while Xavi needs to be rested, Iniesta is in his prime and will need little rotation. If that's all the time Thiago is getting then it's bad business.

Things wont be a literal translation of what i just described, but hopefully you get my point.

by Albiceleste Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:42 am

Only Pep knows how he will get everyone minutes.

by Dnmac4 Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:52 am

I don't understand all the negativity. From all accounts, we just stole Cesc. We also just got one of the top 5 midfielders in the world who has no problem sitting on the bench, in fact he took a pay cut to do it. Do any of you have any idea what a huge luxury that is?

We will be competing for a ton of trophies this year and I would rather not risk Iniesta and Xavi when we don't need to. People forget that Iniesta is injury prone and Xavi was just injured and is not getting any younger.

Fab needs zero time getting acclimated and it will be great for his career as he is very injury prone as well and now he can cut down on the amount of games he needs to play. It is really a win win.

Rosell has done a great job at making everyone think Laporta destroyed Barcelona and put us in the poor house. The truth is we have money and if we want to buy a defender too we can.

We are one of the biggest clubs on earth with some of the most marketable individual players and are going through the best patch in our clubs history, we can splurge a little, don't let Rosell make you think if we purchase Cesc and someone else that we will enter bankruptcy, it's nonsense.

by Khaled Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:56 am

Read My Sig!

by The Franchise Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:58 am

We stole Cesc? How do you come to that conclusion..based on price again I assume?

He srarted with us, he left to go Arsenal, we paid money to get him back.

I fail to see the steal on our side.

Iniesta is injury prone? He had one year which was a result of playing through pain the year before in the final.

Last season he played a heck of alot and not one injury..Iniest isnt any more injury prone then any other normal player.

by The Franchise Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:04 am

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

Why cant Thiago just be back up to Iniesta plus have spot minutes at false 9 or winger?

well, you just signed a star in the making in Sanchez that you will have to play quite a bit to get the goods from, big investment from rosell, he can play false 9 and winger. And you have Afellay that has been there for a couple of months already, also talented, young and ambituous, and can play false 9 and winger i believe.

Sure he can be Iniesta's back up, nothing wrong with that. It's just my understanding that cesc will be first off the bench to sub one of Xavi/Iniesta. I dont think Cesc will be assigned as Xavi's back up, and Thiago as Iniesta' back up. Any opening will be good to get cesc the minutes he commands, and while Xavi needs to be rested, Iniesta is in his prime and will need little rotation. If that's all the time Thiago is getting then it's bad business.

Things wont be a literal translation of what i just described, but hopefully you get my point.

Sanchez primarly rotated with Villa and Pedro. Which means in theory, no more 8 games without scoring for Villa and we have no choice but to play him.

Him plus Affelay as main back up to the forwards I assume.

And yes I do get your point, when either Xavi or Iniesta (just one) doesnt play or comes off, it will be Cesc who plays. That annoys me and thats the reason I dont want him.

But what I am saying is, he isnt needed any more or any less then Sahin is.

Thiago could of been first off the bench to sub these guys, if you guys worked with Canales, gave him a bit more playing time and thhus gave him motivation to work harder, he might of been first off the bench and you wouldnt of had to buy Sahin.

That is all I am saying really, Cesc isnt needed, but we can use him.

Sahin isnt needed, but you can use him.

Its not really much different.

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