@PinePhresh, Perhaps you have not met any atheists indoctrinated by their parents but I have met plenty of atheists that are indoctrinated by media. Honestly, at least here in the west, atheism is seen as "cool" and a lot of people like to follow. I'm fine with that, everyone chooses their own path but when I try and talk to them about it most of them say they have never explored other avenues (ie religion). They just feel "well no proof so clearly is religion is wrong" they don't both trying to come up with "what is right".

It is quite noble of you to say we should discuss our beliefs, and in that post you are trying to attack to attack my pride; calling me out. I don't need to prove to you that I am not afraid of debate. We are living int he internet age, I have had countless debates on this issue as I'm sure you've had. And I 'm quite certain that we both feel that a person on a soccer forum is not going to change our mind. And honestly I don't want to enter this discussion with you because I don't frequent the off-topic thread and I'm sure once I don't respond you will consider yourself a victor.

@dreamerr, like I said, don't judge a religion based on the merits of its followers (which it turns out, he isn't even a follower). Also, where in the Quran does it say the Earth was created 5000 years ago? I understand this may be what you have been told, but I can assure you that this is inaccurate.

arabprince wrote:@PinePhresh, Perhaps you have not met any atheists indoctrinated by their parents but I have met plenty of atheists that are indoctrinated by media. Honestly, at least here in the west, atheism is seen as "cool" and a lot of people like to follow. I'm fine with that, everyone chooses their own path but when I try and talk to them about it most of them say they have never explored other avenues (ie religion). They just feel "well no proof so clearly is religion is wrong" they don't both trying to come up with "what is right".

It is quite noble of you to say we should discuss our beliefs, and in that post you are trying to attack to attack my pride; calling me out. I don't need to prove to you that I am not afraid of debate. We are living int he internet age, I have had countless debates on this issue as I'm sure you've had. And I 'm quite certain that we both feel that a person on a soccer forum is not going to change our mind. And honestly I don't want to enter this discussion with you because I don't frequent the off-topic thread and I'm sure once I don't respond you will consider yourself a victor.

@dreamerr, like I said, don't judge a religion based on the merits of its followers (which it turns out, he isn't even a follower). Also, where in the Quran does it say the Earth was created 5000 years ago? I understand this may be what you have been told, but I can assure you that this is inaccurate.

It's 'cool' in western society to be an atheist? Where have you been? Seriously, there are so many atheists who are in the closet , because they fear society casting glances down on them, because they fear what their religious family might think of them.

Indoctrinated by the media? Yes the media take children at 5 years of age when they are impressionable, force them into religious schooling and tell them that their natural urges are base and they must believe or suffer the consequences... a child's mind is very impressionable. Indoctrination is how religions keep their membership. Atheism, which is not even a religion or group of separate ideas, does not take children and drill its idea into them. When a child is 5-9 they are shown to be most easily coerced into taking on beliefs. I only see religions taking children and forcing its ideas on them.

I don't necessarily think I can change your views, but I can certainly make you think, and I can expose some of your silly ideas. If you do not respond I will not consider myself the victor. 'i won the arguement lololol!!!' It just tells me that you are uncomfortable talking about your faith. I assume you are christian or muslim. Does the bible (i.e. Jesus) not say that every believer ought to have a reason for their faith and to present it when that faith it questioned? You would be surprised how much I know about other people's religions.

What do you believe in? Why do you believe it?

As for the whole topic of Islam - Out of all the religions in the world, this one is clearly the most oppressive. I'm not demonizing all it's followers, I realize that there is good and bad in every large group of people.

Why is it that country's that follow Islamic law have women's rights issues? Religions tell people that they must not eat pork, that they ought to stone homosexuals and unfaithful wives, that you must donate your own valuable time every day to give reverence to the deity. How can you base your life around something that has no scientific basis, no rational evidence for it? I ask you to find me one positive benefit of religion that can not be achieved by secular means. It is because of this that religions are not a force of good in society. The preach tolerance and charity, yet in Islam's case, they oppress women and the gays. Tolerance? America is a nation made up mostly of Christians, yet we have a secular government that separates itself from the churches. It's no mistake that our people enjoy more freedoms than many in the middle east.

As for those fundamentalist wackos... they follow they same religious code that the more moderate followers do. They just happen to take it literally. If you were to go through any religious text, you would find a lot of silly things that modern believers choose to ignore. The bible indicates that the earth is around 6,000 to 10,000 years old. It says they earth is the center of the universe, held up by 4 giant pillars in the sky. There are plenty of ridiculous and obviously false statements made about the world if you read through it. So why do you dogmatically follow the things that you are comfortable with, yet you are not one of these nuts who claim the earth is closer to 6,000 years old than it is to 6,000,000,000? Because their is overwhelming scientific evidence that points to an earth that is much older.

Darwinism and religion are in conflict. Their are very clear creation stories spelled out in the bible and Qur'an. If you choose to marry religion with evolution, you can simply say that evolution is the means by which your god created plants and animals. Unfortunately, there is very clear writing that god created the earth and all it's things in 7 days. That the first woman was made from a rib. It's just another aspect of religious text that people choose tho interpret thier own way or throw out the window. If you are in conflict with so many of your own religious writings, then why believe the religion at all? I'm not saying immediately disbelieve everything you hold true, but why go to these houses of worship? Why call yourself a christian or a muslim?

I base my views around my own observations, not the big man in the sky telling me how to live.

Arquitecto wrote:
Bring up any point to counteract Islam or Roman Catholism; I will gladly respond.

The person who posits the positive claim (i.e. my god exists = positive claim) must be the one who proves that his claim is true.

I ask you this: What do you believe? Why?

One last thing to arabprince - you say we will be here forever, you don't have time to argue...

you have the time to share with me all your views on our beloved Milan, surely you must have the time to share your views on the cosmic being who gave you this life and promises an eternity of paradise in the next one.

The western religions... Christianity, Islam and the Jewish, are all based on the so called "old testament" in which God created this world in 6 days as PinePhresh explained overhere.
We all know the story I suppose!

It's fine with me and I dont judge people that believe in some religion, up to them... but dont judge others for having the wrong religion or no religion at all!
I repeat my link to all the work of Charles Darwin and he will give you a 1001 reasons not to believe in a God, but to use your grey brain cells!
I compare Darwin with the first man who claimed that the world was a football instead of a pancake!

I'm a non-believer for good reasons, because I studied Christianity, I did read the Quran, read also the lifestory of Budha, have nothing to proof and hereby I rest my case!

On the old forum I said once "Dont believe me, but think about it!" and I like to repeat myself on this subject!

Friends... I love you all!

Dreamer you quickly judged me and the girl I made out with,along with the whole country without knowing anything. When i told you that she is Christian and I'm agnostic,thus proving you wrong for judging us,you ignored my post. Now you say that we Should atleast think about what you said if we don't believe you?

I'll just leave this here ....

Humans as a species are weak , thus God's were created to worship them and make yourself believe that you can be protected and given a good life if you lead a good one .

Religions were created by men seeking power who profited from the idea of God's followed by people

How does someone justify the tons of religions that are there in the world !?

I stated my opinion ... Note that I dont want to offend anyone by this ...

pUsHa wrote:I'll just leave this here ....

Humans as a species are weak , thus God's were created to worship them and make yourself believe that you can be protected and given a good life if you lead a good one .

Religions were created by men seeking power who profited from the idea of God's followed by people

How does someone justify the tons of religions that are there in the world !?

I stated my opinion ... Note that I dont want to offend anyone by this ...

Isn't it strange that different religions exist? If there is only one true path, then why does the god not reveal himself to all people, not just his chosen few? The god of the old testament, new testament, and Qur'an is amazingly human-like in his qualities. He holds grudges, gets angry, is narcissistic, intolerant, constantly plays favorites and cuts deals with mortals...

The claim that your god is the true god is equally as (in)valid as the argument that that the 7 animal spirits worshiped by a remote tribe on an isolated island are the true gods, or that the magical leprechaun in my sock gives me life energy.

Why do people follow a certain path? Because they take on the religion of their parents. Religions were early man's response to the vastness of a world which they did not understand and a coping mechanism to deal with death and tragedy.

There is a direct correlation between a person's knowledge of the world/science and a lack of religiosity. There is statistical data to prove it.

PinePHresh wrote:

pUsHa wrote:I'll just leave this here ....

Humans as a species are weak , thus God's were created to worship them and make yourself believe that you can be protected and given a good life if you lead a good one .

Religions were created by men seeking power who profited from the idea of God's followed by people

How does someone justify the tons of religions that are there in the world !?

I stated my opinion ... Note that I dont want to offend anyone by this ...

Isn't it strange that different religions exist? If there is only one true path, then why does the god not reveal himself to all people, not just his chosen few? The god of the old testament, new testament, and Qur'an is amazingly human-like in his qualities. He holds grudges, gets angry, is narcissistic, intolerant, constantly plays favorites and cuts deals with mortals...

The claim that your god is the true god is equally as (in)valid as the argument that that the 7 animal spirits worshiped by a remote tribe on an isolated island are the true gods, or that the magical leprechaun in my sock gives me life energy.

Why do people follow a certain path? Because they take on the religion of their parents. Religions were early man's response to the vastness of a world which they did not understand and a coping mechanism to deal with death and tragedy.

There is a direct correlation between a person's knowledge of the world/science and a lack of religiosity. There is statistical data to prove it.

Religion was always used to control people ... everybody created their own to suit their interests . Somebody just lives with it continuing to believe ... others realize they would be deeply hurt if they were to open their eyes ...

I appreciate your argument ...

Milanfan7 wrote: Dreamer you quickly judged me and the girl I made out with,along with the whole country without knowing anything. When i told you that she is Christian and I'm agnostic,thus proving you wrong for judging us,you ignored my post. Now you say that we Should atleast think about what you said if we don't believe you?

I did not judge you, but asked you a question!

Milanfan7 wrote:

dreamer wrote:

Milanfan7 wrote:I went camping yesterday, met a girl over there and made out with her. Damn she was hot. It's a shame I didn't get the bitch's number.

Why do you cal her a bitch?

Making out with a guy you don't know is bitchy, especially here in Lebanon.

Your last sentence is not about your religion, but about Lebanon which is an Islamic country!
You did the name calling on this girl and should shame yourself for feeling better!

dreamer wrote:
Your last sentence is not about your religion, but about Lebanon which is an Islamic country!

An islamic country with a Christian president. Also half or a bit less of our population is christian,yet again Lebanon is an Islamic country.
Oh and I never knew that Islamic countries have pubs and nightclubs.

Ignorance is bliss,and you are clearly ecstatic.

Christ, the arguments here against religion and god are exactly what I'm talking about.

Debates based on surface value, simple logic and deductive reasoning.

Not convincing.

Arquitecto wrote:Christ, the arguments here against religion and god are exactly what I'm talking about.

Debates based on surface value, simple logic and deductive reasoning.

Not convincing.

why don't you tell us why you're right then... disbelief is the default position.

Debates based on surface value, simple logic deductive reasoning - you can't just put labels on the arguments and not actually say why they are so

again



The person who posits the positive claim (i.e. my god exists = positive claim) must be the one who proves that his claim is true.

I ask you this: What do you believe? Why?

and i really have to ask: what is wrong with deductive reasoning? Do you even know what it is or were you just throwing that term around? If an arguments premises are true and its conclusion follows from those premises, it is a sound argument.

Milanfan7 wrote: Dreamer you quickly judged me and the girl I made out with,along with the whole country without knowing anything. When i told you that she is Christian and I'm agnostic,thus proving you wrong for judging us,you ignored my post. Now you say that we Should atleast think about what you said if we don't believe you?

I think he was asking you why you had to refer to the girl as a bitch. I also agreed with his post as I felt what you said was demeaning to women. I know you're young but you should be more respectful, especially when speaking about a girl who gave you a little sugar.

TetraHydroC 10 wrote:

Milanfan7 wrote: Dreamer you quickly judged me and the girl I made out with,along with the whole country without knowing anything. When i told you that she is Christian and I'm agnostic,thus proving you wrong for judging us,you ignored my post. Now you say that we Should atleast think about what you said if we don't believe you?

I think he was asking you why you had to refer to the girl as a bitch. I also agreed with his post as I felt what you said was demeaning to women. I know you're young but you should be more respectful, especially when speaking about a girl who gave you a little sugar.

You're right,I shouldn't have called the girl a bitch,but I'm eager to hear why dreamer thinks that Lebanon is an isalmic country.

Milanfan7 wrote:You're right,I shouldn't have called the girl a bitch,but I'm eager to hear why dreamer thinks that Lebanon is an islamic country.

The influence in Lebanon from Islam (Hezbollah, Iran ao.) is overwhelming and specially at the south where you have borders with Israël!
Your (christian) President and Gov.ment are not in control of your country and long before you where born, without help from the international community (including Dutch soldiers) the chances where close to 100% that there would be no Lebanon anymore!

Rightnow the iranian ayatollah's have more influence in Lebanon than your own gov.ment and therefore its justified (in my opinion) to call Lebanon an Islamic country! :idea:
The mentality of the population is a whole is for centuries under the influence of Islam and Iran dont let (peacefully) go!

dreamer wrote:

Milanfan7 wrote:You're right,I shouldn't have called the girl a bitch,but I'm eager to hear why dreamer thinks that Lebanon is an islamic country.

The influence in Lebanon from Islam (Hezbollah, Iran ao.) is overwhelming and specially at the south where you have borders with Israël!
Your (christian) President and Gov.ment are not in control of your country and long before you where born, without help from the international community (including Dutch soldiers) the chances where close to 100% that there would be no Lebanon anymore!

Rightnow the iranian ayatollah's have more influence in Lebanon than your own gov.ment and therefore its justified (in my opinion) to call Lebanon an Islamic country! :idea:
The mentality of the population is a whole is for centuries under the influence of Islam and Iran dont let (peacefully) go!

While it is true that the Iranian and Syrian influence is overwhelming,the americain influence is equally powerful. For this reason it is feared that incase the Syrian ass of a president basher el khara loses his power over Syria a civil war might start in Lebanon.

All in all,calling Lebanon an islamic country is stupid and ignorant. Calling the dahye and part of the south as Islamic parts of the country? MAYBE,but not the whole country.

Milanfan7 you should show some (more) respect for the people you'r interacting and in general... but as said, you are young and wil learn one way or another!

dreamer wrote:Milanfan7 you should show some (more) respect for the people you'r interacting and in general... but as said, you are young and wil learn one way or another!

I conceded defeat,why don't you? Why do you refuse to accept that you were wrong when you said that Lebanon is an Islamic country?

It appears to me that you are the one who should learn shit

hey milanfan7 is hunting still legal in lebanon??

nichabr wrote:hey milanfan7 is hunting still legal in lebanon??

No sir,but I hunt anyways,I have my connections:p.

"Today, on 9/11, I'll mourn the nearly 3,000 lives lost, the over 6,000 injuries, the infrastructural carnage and devastation in NYC, and the humiliation of America, all perpetrated ignorantly in the name of my religion.

On 9/12, I'll mourn the nearly 1,000,000 lives, the 10's of millions of injuries, the infrastructural decimation in three countries, and the humiliation of my religion, all perpetrated ignorantly in the name of America.

so...i was a bit inactive for couple days...(from lurking of course) and what did i miss? no more brigate? (damn i missed too much)

and could someone please explain what happened? I've searched a bit and i didn't find satisfying explanation. its always hard to lose a friend...even tho he might not know me at all, but at least we share the same red black blood

I think Brigate is still on a self imposed exile, but he does occasionally posts here and there.

i'm sure i read somewhere that he was using multiple accounts or something like that?