Ganso - Overhyped, Overpriced

by PinePHresh Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:18 pm

So it seems every Milanista in this forum wants Ganso in the red and black this year. Do you not realize the many pitfalls of such a deal?

First, let us discuss his price tag; Ganso is under a third party ownership agreement, which is perfectly legal in Brazil. An independent company invested money with Santos so that they could sign the player. This company now owns part of Ganso's contract and are looking to make a profit on his sale. For this reason, players under third party ownership will have an asking price that is normally too high and non negotiable.

GANSO WILL COST 30 MILLION EUROS

Normally, when you pay 30 million euros, you get a world class player in return. Ganso is not a world class player.

Is it not obvious what Santos has done here?

They signed their starlets to long contracts with ridiculous release clauses on thrid party ownerships in order to raise the pricetag. Brazil's NT is in a state of repair, allowing these youngsters to earn caps and a shot at glory in 2014. This raises the pricetag. They convince the players that they can develop at Santos and become a world class player. The players stay longer and showcase more of their 'potential' when they are really being robbed of it. This also raises the pricetag. Ganso is 21 already, is he not? They claim interest from all sorts of suitors (Inter, Chelsea, Madrid) to raise the pricetag!

If we pay 30 million for Ganso, will we ever recoup that fee? Could this player really be worth 35 million again in 5 years time?

As for Ganso himself, he is 21 years old. He does not have too much time left to develop which is also something to consider.

What position does Ganso play? Many here claim him to be the trequartista that will bring Milan our next European triumph, but doesn't he play more as a midfield regista for both Santos and Brazil? Ganso cannot be an effective trequartista in Europe; seriously, haven't you realized this guy is as slow as molasses? He will never become a great attacking player, because he lacks the ability to dribble at defenders and the ability to beat his man one on one. Look at his Copa America! He cannot elude a man marker at all! He requires a great deal of space to pick out his passes, otherwise he goes short or backwards. For a player who is supposedly ambidextrous, he sure favors that left foot a lot...

My Verdict? He's worth about 15 million, stick him in central midfield

This is merely speculation but consider the following:

Montolivo ~ 10 million

Hamsik ~ 30 million

Pastore ~ 35 million

Ganso > 30 million

MONTOLIVO > GANSO

by Ganso Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:31 pm

these Copa America knee jerks wont stop will they?

"he lacks the ability to dribble at defenders and the ability to beat his man one on one"lmao

by PinePHresh Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:03 pm

Ganso wrote:these Copa America knee jerks wont stop will they?

"he lacks the ability to dribble at defenders and the ability to beat his man one on one"lmao

The reason why he can't do those things is because he is slow; not because he cannot dribble well or because he lacks trickery. His lack of pace is being exploited at the NT level and it is a legitimate concern. Ganso has been talked about so much for the last year, yet when his opportunity came to show the entire world what he could do in the Copa, he flopped. I agree that one cannot judge a player on only a few bad performances, but the Copa was a huge occasion, the tournament of the Summer with so much focus on the rebuilding Brazil, and he simply did not perform.

Please, I take the time to write formulated posts in the Milan section. I expect actual discussion, not my fellow Milanisti dismissing everything I write in one sentence by calling it a 'knee jerk.' There would be no 'knee jerk' at all if Ganso had played like the phenom he supposedly is.

@ Ganso - I cannot express tone through text; I love my fellow Milanisti and do not wish to argue with them. I am simply frustrated that you didn't address my specific concerns.

by REWB Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:10 pm

i agree ganso is incredibly overrated, just like most Brazilian youngsters really. if ganso is worth 30mill then wilshere is worth 60mill.

by Ganso Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Dude,how many player out there like Fabregas and Pirlo and how many legends like Zidane and Socrates were slow?How fast or slow he is doesnt mean much,Hernanes is slow as hell too,and look what hes doing at lazio as a CAM?He did dribble quite a lot of players in Copa America,im watching his "vs" youtube videos right now,and saying he didnt perform well just because he doesnt dribble players or because he isnt fast is bs,he ended up as CAs top assistant with 4 assists of the 6 goals brazil scored.

Did he flop?yes,but so did the best in the world like falcao and messi.

And sorry i didnt respond in a more formal way,but i just hate when people judge players off 6 games.

by REWB Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:13 pm

Ganso wrote:Dude,how many player out there like Fabregas and Pirlo and how many legends like Zidane and Socrates were slow?How fast or slow he is doesnt mean much,Hernanes is slow as hell too,and look what hes doing at lazio as a CAM?He did dribble quite a lot of players in Copa America,im watching his "vs" youtube videos right now,and saying he didnt perform well just because he doesnt dribble players or because he isnt fast is bs,he ended up as CAs top assistant with 4 assists of the 6 goals brazil scored.

Did he flop?yes,but so did the best in the world like falcao and messi.

And sorry i didnt respond in a more formal way,but i just hate when people judge players off 6 games.

yeah i agree you dont have to be fast and go past players to be a good CAM, i dont know where he got that from tbh, not every CAM has to play like kaka.

by PinePHresh Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:16 pm

OK thanks, Ganso. I have held the opinion for quite some time that Ganso would make a better regista than trequartista. Who knows? Maybe this guy IS the next Pirlo. In fact, I would love Ganso as a deep lying playmaker if he could improve his strength and positioning.

EDIT - You need speed in the final third to win in Europe. It is the section of the field where the most important moments take place in very small spaces. Seedorf is one of the greats, yet he has had to accept a deeper role as his physical attributes have declined.

by Ganso Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:21 pm

RedEyesWhiteBeard wrote:i agree ganso is incredibly overrated, just like most Brazilian youngsters really. if ganso is worth 30mill then wilshere is worth 60mill.

me and sinatra have said this like 100 times,his market price is not 30M,problem is that presidents from brazilian clubs are jerks and put extremely high buyout clauses because they dont want players to leave.They are stupid and think he will develop better in Brazil rather than in Europe which is ridiculous.

by lenear1030 Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:25 pm

ganso is really overrated, but the original post was a bit harsh imo

by baresi Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:54 pm

Hey Pine, if you had a choice between Giovinco and Ganso, whom would u go for?

by Guest Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:47 pm

I gotta side with both Gansos on this one. I think most people just got to watch Ganso at the Copa America and now they have rushed to judgement. Pine have you actually watched Ganso before the Copa? If so how much have you seen? Watching this guy play is pure delight, not everyone is going to see the genius in him. (Not saying that you're one of these people) I don't think Ganso is as slow as you might think, it's just that he is very composed and calm. He is always a couple of steps ahead and I think he actually suffered playing with Brazil and that squad (Chemistry also came into play) I believe Ganso is that piece that makes other parts around him better, he needs the right guys around him who have that understanding.

I believe if Milan get Ganso, it will be a dream signing.

by Arquitecto Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:25 am

I disagree, he not overhyped, but overpriced.

We live in a day and age where physical attributes are appreciated above the technical side. Sad really.

Ganso is not slow, as he chooses to use his intelligence, technicality and vision to orchestrate and assist. I have seen when he wants to use his pace, he uses it in short, controlled bursts to beat his marker with his incredibly underrated dribbling. People say he is like Zidane, but he reminds me of a fusion of Rui Costa and Rivaldo.

Conclusively, Ganso is a technical masterpiece who is a throwback to the days where skill was more favored then speed and athleticism.

Copa America? Give me a break, he came from injury and had to blend into a team with incredible pressure and hype around them, individualistic and selfish players and 0 chemistry.

All he needs to improve his mental side of the game as he tends to disappear sometimes.

But all in all, Ganso is 21 with time on his side to improve even further as a move to Europe is imminent, as this is where he can showcase his technical artistry with Milan as we here embrace players like him.

by Guest Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:43 am

his price tag makes him overrated..frankly... 40 million for him... we can get world class player like fabregas....

ganso is no more than 20 million... no matter how good he is..

by JuvenelCuore Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:06 am

Santos is making bare money right now with Danilo being sold, Neymar and Ganso on the way out.

But honestly, clubs will keep spending so they will keep supplying.

If Milan do not put up the capital, some team like MU will.

by M99 Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:11 pm

I feared this ever since the Copa America started. Kneejerk defined.

btw welcome back pine.

by M99 Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:12 pm

Ganso's playing style is so much like Zidane, it's not even funny.

by biggiejay Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:49 pm

Ganso is more of a Rivaldo.Tremendous technique,vision,skill and obviously left footed. He's a very special player. Hopefully Milan sign him in January.

by Milantildeath Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:33 pm

Ganso and Montolivo would make our team one of the most feared in Europe.

by PinePHresh Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:39 pm

baresi wrote:Hey Pine, if you had a choice between Giovinco and Ganso, whom would u go for?

To insert directly into Milan right now? Giovinco hands down. Ganso would not be our trequartista, and we don't need another slow, lumbering, luxury player in midfield. Pirlo left ffs Crying or Very sad

Ganso would obviously be a good signing, but he would need to develop first, and he costs too much.

The market makes no sense right now.

De Gea - 22 mil
Neuer - 20 mil
Steklenburg -6 mil?

Modric - 30 mil
Montolivo - 10 mil

Torres, Bent, and Carrol vs Pazzini, Cassano

JuvenalCore raises a good point, however. Market prices are inflated, yet there will be another big club willing to pay the transfer fee.

by BeautifulGame Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:38 am

PinePHresh wrote:
baresi wrote:Hey Pine, if you had a choice between Giovinco and Ganso, whom would u go for?

To insert directly into Milan right now? Giovinco hands down. Ganso would not be our trequartista, and we don't need another slow, lumbering, luxury player in midfield. Pirlo left ffs

Ganso would obviously be a good signing, but he would need to develop first, and he costs too much.

The market makes no sense right now.

De Gea - 22 mil
Neuer - 20 mil
Steklenburg -6 mil?

Modric - 30 mil
Montolivo - 10 mil

Torres, Bent, and Carrol vs Pazzini, Cassano

JuvenalCore raises a good point, however. Market prices are inflated, yet there will be another big club willing to pay the transfer fee.

Your comparisons on prices are completely wrong IMO.Just players CURRENT ABILITY alone doesnt decide his their price tag.There are lot more factors involved in that so just comparing the price tag players from entirely different circumstances is very simplistic view.

by BiasedMilanFan3 Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:51 am

Maybe overpriced
Certainly hot "overhyped"

by PinePHresh Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:01 am

^I realize that prices are affected by more than one factor. And how are my prices 'wrong'? The 3 GKs have already moved for the prices listed. Spurs rejected 25 million pounds for Modric. Montolivo will arrive in Milan for less than 12 million euros any day now. EPL teams hilariously spent over 100 million pounds on Torres, Bent, and Carrol, while Cassano and Pazzini were on the cheap.

Don't you find it laughable that a player like Modric is worth over 30 million pounds to Spurs, yet Montolivo (a player of similar style and quality) will be sold to Milan for a third of that?

I've already explained why Ganso is so expensive, and if you had read my posts, you would have clearly seen that I do understand why some players cost more than others. The point is that the 'big' clubs are paying stupid transfer fees for players. Milan are smart with their money. Look how we added to our squad over the last year. If De Gea is a 20 million euro GK, then its no wonder why Santos are holding out for 40 million.

by BeautifulGame Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:19 am

Take Modric and Montolivo for comparisons:

Modric is on a 6 year contract whereas Montolivo is into the last year of his contract.

Modric is wanted by Chelsea which has far more financial resorces than Milan.Similarly Spurs the selling club is also far more financially strong than Fiorentina.

So 10mil bid wont get Chelsea Modric unlike Montolivo for Milan.What would u suggest walk away? Chelsea clearly want a proven PL CM and Modric is the best available so them want him and have the means to pay it.So for them 30 mil for Modric isn't stupid but necessity.The circumstances are entirely different btw Modric and Montolivo to compare these players.

If that is the case Madrid bought Sahin for 10 mil and Spurs VDV for 8mil both are superior player to Montolivo.So isnt paying 10mil for Montolivo stupid fee?

Maybe in Milan's point of view 30mil for Modric and 35 mil for Carroll seem stupid but when Chelsea and Liverpool have the means to buy it why would they settle for secondary targets? Its not stupid in their view.Doesnt matter how much u pay for a player but only issue that concerns is their success.

Best example is Ferguson bought Ferdinand for 30mil 10 years ago.Wouldn't u have classed as stupid transfer fee then for a defender?But after all these years winning countless trophies does that look stupid?Ferguson could easily have settled for a cheaper secondary option rather than Ferdinend.Then it would have been cost effective but would also have affected them winning trophies all these years.

Ganso maybe an expensive transfer but if he is the difference btw Milan winning CL or settling for QF which would u prefer if Milan have the resources to buy him?

As i am again saying when u have the resources to buy a player u need why settle for secondary option?

by PinePHresh Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:29 am

did you even read what I wrote? I UNDERSTAND WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IN PRICE COMES FROM. We are not Madrid - we don't just throw money at everything. We find the right players at the right times to fill our needs in a cost effective manner.

You can pull 100 transfers out of your 'you know what' as examples but it has no relevance here. How does Ferdinand's transfer fee have anything to do with Ganso's current asking price and his potential to improve as a footballer?

I am seriously doubting your level of reading comprehension right now.

BeautifulGame wrote:

Ganso maybe an expensive transfer but if he is the difference btw Milan winning CL or settling for QF which would u prefer if Milan have the resources to buy him?

As i am again saying when u have the resources to buy a player u need why settle for secondary option?

why don't i just go support man city or malaga? I'd let a drunk chiropractor surgically remove my left testicle if it guaranteed UCL glory.

Milan is a self sustaining company for the most part, but we don't have millions upon millions of euros to throw at just any player. It has to be the right player at the right time.

Who says Ganso is the player to rocket us into European success? Isn't that the point of this thread???

by BiasedMilanFan3 Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:43 am

PinePHresh wrote:^I realize that prices are affected by more than one factor. And how are my prices 'wrong'? The 3 GKs have already moved for the prices listed. Spurs rejected 25 million pounds for Modric. Montolivo will arrive in Milan for less than 12 million euros any day now. EPL teams hilariously spent over 100 million pounds on Torres, Bent, and Carrol, while Cassano and Pazzini were on the cheap.

Don't you find it laughable that a player like Modric is worth over 30 million pounds to Spurs, yet Montolivo (a player of similar style and quality) will be sold to Milan for a third of that?

I've already explained why Ganso is so expensive, and if you had read my posts, you would have clearly seen that I do understand why some players cost more than others. The point is that the 'big' clubs are paying stupid transfer fees for players. Milan are smart with their money. Look how we added to our squad over the last year. If De Gea is a 20 million euro GK, then its no wonder why Santos are holding out for 40 million.

This is all to do with the leagues
Modric is an EPL club selling to (probably) an EPL club where every second player has a pricetag of 10mil+
Montolivo only has one year left and Fiorentina don't actually need the big bucks as badly as Tottenham.

Also Cassano was CHEAP, Pazzini wasn't

But I COMPLETELY AGREE on Milan and their money. We know how to get a good deal. It club's like Barcelona, Madrid, Liverpool and Manchester United that will pay through the nose for not even the best players.

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