Re: The US Politics Thread

[Pedram]

Kamala’s loss in four headlines: pic.twitter.com/xT2nYl9Pe3

— Mac (@GoodPoliticGuy) November 10, 2024

[Myesyats]

EU reaction to Trump's win:

1.  Donald Tusk (Polish PM) says that "some assumptions regarding CO2 emissions are disarming the European economy",

2.  After the EU summit in Budapest, there is information that "the European Green Deal will now have to be revised and seriously, because the European economy will not withstand competition and cheap energy carriers, even from the US",

3.  EU President Ursula von der Leyen announces that "the EU is ready to buy natural gas from the US and limit purchases of Russian LNG"



The left is now heroically fighting against the problems that they have themselves caused. Trump's win may actually save the EU, provided it is saveable at all. Trump was saying this since like 2015.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Isn't the EU already getting LNG from the US?

[futbol]

The EU is getting the same Russian gas that has first gone to India, gets relabeled there and comes back for x times the price. Not too dissimilar to buying an "American" iPhone while 90 % of the phone is made in China, India and Vietnam.

Yeah, Germany is also getting LNG from the US, though the US doesn't have enough resources to fuel an 80 million (former) industrial nation like Germany. That's merely symbolic from the US to assert dominance over their vassals.

https://theglobaleducationproject.org/earth/infographics/energy_nat-gas-reserves-top-countries.png

How (and why) could the US fuel Germany while their own energy prices have gone up? They can't and they don't need to.

[Myesyats]

NYT "fact check"

[Myesyats]

The EU is getting the same Russian gas that has first gone to India, gets relabeled there and comes back for x times the price. Not too dissimilar to buying an "American" iPhone while 90 % of the phone is made in China, India and Vietnam.

Yeah, Germany is also getting LNG from the US, though the US doesn't have enough resources to fuel an 80 million (former) industrial nation like Germany. That's merely symbolic from the US to assert dominance over their vassals.

How (and why) could the US fuel Germany while their own energy prices have gone up? They can't and they don't need to.

I wonder what Germany's long term agenda is because the nordstream, before it was sabotaged, would indeed render them over-reliant on Russian supply. Combined with neglect of their armed forces, do they not believe Russia would become hostile towards them eventually? How do they reconcile the idea of fueling Russia's war-machine at the same as expecting the US to protect them from Russia? What is your view on that as a German?

[Blue]

the woke stuff are only irrelevant in the minds of the extreme online people, the vast majority people those things do not cross their minds or vote based on it. People care about their everyday lives, like cos of living.

[futbol]

The EU is getting the same Russian gas that has first gone to India, gets relabeled there and comes back for x times the price. Not too dissimilar to buying an "American" iPhone while 90 % of the phone is made in China, India and Vietnam.

Yeah, Germany is also getting LNG from the US, though the US doesn't have enough resources to fuel an 80 million (former) industrial nation like Germany. That's merely symbolic from the US to assert dominance over their vassals.

How (and why) could the US fuel Germany while their own energy prices have gone up? They can't and they don't need to.

I wonder what Germany's long term agenda is because the nordstream, before it was sabotaged, would indeed render them over-reliant on Russian supply. Combined with neglect of their armed forces, do they not believe Russia would become hostile towards them eventually? How do they reconcile the idea of fueling Russia's war-machine at the same as expecting the US to protect them from Russia? What is your view on that as a German?

Why would Russia be hostile towards us? It's the same exact lie as "Iraq is soon going to launch WMD against us so we better invade them now". A German economy with NS2 where Germany acts as the main gas hub for the entire EU and all of Germany, EU and Russia profit economically would be a bad scenario for the US, not for Russia. Germany with cheap energy and not burdened by woke pseudo science (climate + migration) policies invented in America (yet never applied to themselves) is the number 1 economic power on the planet.

So whose interests does it serve to destroy this relation by initiating the Maidan coup, putting the US president's drug-addicted son into the supervisory board of Ukraine's biggest energy firm as Kiew's governor and threaten to put NATO right next to the Russian border until eventually Russia snaps? That's in Russia's interests? Because hurr durr Putler wants to grab land? Ha ha. Imagine having this world view. Then again, if people believe men with dicks can become chicks, why not also believe in other fairy tales?

Of course this is only my view, not the general German mainstream media and therefore population consensus at all. 72 % of Germans believed Kamala was leading the race in the US comfortably. So if state TV tells them that in fact men with dicks can at any time become chicks and that Russia is going to attack NATO and Ukraine of all places is defending European democracy, the masses will believe that of course.

Germany is a lost country with no identity, severely mass hypnothised by state media which reports to the best interests of foreign powers. Ever went to a big German city recently? This is the center of Berlin now:



Calcutta on the Spree, as I like to call it. Germans should worry more about letting their daughters go out at night alone rather than Russia attacking.

[Myesyats]

I disagree because I know Russia, their people and I know history. Even the supposed liberal anti-Putin candidate Navalny was a warmonger and a cuckoo.

My question is how can you look at history and think that’s the correct worldview. It’d be beneficial for Germany short term, but doing business with Russia and add brick by brick to the expansion of their empire is never a viable long-term policy from Europe’s POV

Even if you assume that Russia alone wouldn’t ever attack NATO, they are a natural ally to China by proxy, and both of them together definitely pose a threat in the future to the US yes.. but just as well to Europe.

[Pedram]

I don't think Russia is expansionist by nature tbh. they just don't want NATO at their borders because it's a fucking suicide. if they accept that they might as well surrender and fracture their huge ass country into thousand pieces.

[sportsczy]

So my two cents.

In the US, the left media and politicians attempted to push everyone further left than they're comfortable.  They didn't try to do this by convincing them, but by shaming them.  Obama, Obama's wife, Oprah, Biden, etc all publicly said that unless you vote a certain way, you're "not black", "voting against women", etc.  

Result?

You alienated the voter base.  As a result, a good portion of the democratic voting block turned Republican.  

Say what you want about Americans... but freedom of thought, speech, and vote is paramount.  Dems tried the groupthink strategy and lost unsurprisingly. They even went as far as calling Trump "similar to Hitler and Mussolini". No joke, they said that publicly. Insane.

Dems also managed to piss off both Muslims and Jews at the same time, which is a first.

[Thimmy]

They even went as far as calling Trump "similar to Hitler and Mussolini".  No joke, they said that publicly.  Insane.

I've seen a lot of Europeans on the internet refer to these claims as correct/legitimate associations, rather than being similarities.

The most surprising thing about this presidential election for me, has been the baffling amount of people outside of the US who are so emotionally invested in it that Trump's victory has caused them significant mental trauma and distress.

Also, the blatant lies of Scandinavian and European news sites, who were just as eager as the American ones to jump on every rumor that put Trump in a negative light. So much so, that even his speeches that had been edited and taken out of context where distributed as is, despite requiring very little effort to confirm for their illegitimacy.

Some of the biggest news outlets in Scandinavia even assured their readers that Harris was going to win, as if they had any way of knowing the outcome. And then, Trump's eventual victory was described with words, like "catastrophe".

I don't particularly like Trump, myself, but I always had a certain degree of expectation in regard to the objectivity and professionalism of these news sites, and it's become clear to me that even some of the most reputable journalists just can't help themselves when it comes to politics, and particularly when it comes to denouncing Trump.

Needless to say, it gives journalists a worrying amount of power of influence when they go the American route of, not only reporting on news from around the world, but also feeding the reader/viewer with strong, subjective opinions.

[Vibe]

The death of journalism is the problem

Whoever owns whichever media will convince a lot of people whatever.

You need filters and powers of deduction to read between the lines in todays media. So most people will simply believe what they read and hear. And most often, the truth or any sort of realistic viewing of any situation will get left behind.

[Myesyats]

I don't think Russia is expansionist by nature tbh. they just don't want NATO at their borders because it's a fucking suicide. if they accept that they might as well surrender and fracture their huge ass country into thousand pieces.

Eh they took Crimea because it's an engine for their economy and there's oil and natural gas. NATO is just the excuse they use to grab more, they want influence over all former soviet countries and NATO is a defense mechanism for these countries

Obviously USA promised not to 'expand' NATO and they see NATO "expansion" as a threat, but countries join willingly so it's not an expansion by definition, enlargement =/= expansion

[futbol]

I disagree because I know Russia, their people and I know history. Even the supposed liberal anti-Putin candidate Navalny was a warmonger and a cuckoo.

My question is how can you look at history and think that’s the correct worldview. It’d be beneficial for Germany short term, but doing business with Russia and add brick by brick to the expansion of their empire is never a viable long-term policy from Europe’s POV

Even if you assume that Russia alone wouldn’t ever attack NATO, they are a natural ally to China by proxy, and both of them together definitely pose a threat in the future to the US yes.. but just as well to Europe.

And who labeled him liberal and let him speak in Western parliaments? The same people who armed Saddam Hussein and made him an ally when it was useful. Until he wasn't. Nawalny wanted to deport all Georgians from Russia, cooperated with orgaisations like "Greater Russia", called people cockroaches. On top of that he was completely meaningless, not even 10 % of Russians endorsed him in 2023. The reason you think he was a liberal and a better option than Putin is because the West doesn't give a shit about human rights or democracy, their goal is to have a weak Russia and Nawalny was supposed to be a puppet they could control. A few thousand Russian Twitter troll accounts are supposedly "stealing US election" but parading Nawalny through every Western parliament and bringing a completely unknown person (in 2011 only 7 % of Russians even knew who he was) to the forefront is completely normal Western behaviour and of course not meddling with inner affairs of Russia at all.

Your logic is astounding by the way. "Hey, they are maybe not dangerous to NATO but they are still allies with China so let's just be enemies with them, because the US doesn't like not being the only superpower anymore."

Okay, dude. But Russia has to accept NATO on its borders because "Ukraine as a free country can choose their allies freely". See the cognitive dissonance of all those arguments? I mean, you have to see it at this point, right?

I personally have no problem with China coming to power. The moment China has become big, they've already healed Diabetes Type 1 on a woman via stem cells, are building infrastructure in Africa, producing affordable EVs for the masses (that the West doesn't want and puts tariffs on because apparently climate change is only an important issue when it generates additional taxes and fucks up your freedom, otherwise it's not that urgent at all) and they'd built 5G and 6G infrastructure everywhere in Europe as well if we weren't US vassals.

China's culture goes back several thousand years. Why would they be interested in invading Calcutta on the Spree, Londonistan or the Paris Banlieues? So their youth can also wave rainbow flags instead of studying engineering? I view them as no threat at all. For a non imperialist country like Germany or the EU working together with China and Russia would only be beneficial.

The time of the US is up in this century. It's a natural process. Otto von Bismarck once said: The first generation builds, the second generation administers, the third generation studies Art History and the fourth generation degenerates. If we count 1945 as the starting point in the Western World for "building" and a generation is roughly 25 years, you can take a guess in which era we're living right now.

[Pedram]

"If what you want is a centrist campaign that's quiet on trans issues, tough on the border, distances itself from Palestinians, talks a lot about law and order, and reaches out to moderate Republicans, that candidate existed and she just lost"
~John Oliver on dems moving right pic.twitter.com/NXNg94ttnj

— The Serfs (youtube.com/theserftimes) (@theserfstv) November 12, 2024

[Myesyats]

Your logic is astounding by the way. "Hey, they are maybe not dangerous to NATO but they are still allies with China so let's just be enemies with them, because the US doesn't like not being the only superpower anymore".

Okay, dude. But Russia has to accept NATO on its borders because "Ukraine as a free country can choose their allies freely". See the cognitive dissonance of all those arguments? I mean, you have to see it at this point, right?

So Russia's intervention and influence in Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Armenia, Azerbaijan and meddling in a host of other countries (Syria, Balkans etc etc)  is not an argument against them but US' intervention in Iraq or somewhere  is? Now that's proper logic huh?

I never said the bold part and that's not my argument so that's something you added yourself. They ARE dangerous to neighbouring countries ( so NATO as well - You think Finland joined because they want to attack Russia or bc they want to defend themselves?). Being incapable of doing something at a given moment doesnt mean they don't want to do it or is not their long-term agenda.

I never said "be enemies with them either". All I'm saying is not give them leverage by making yourself dependent on their energy supply. That's not even close to being enemies. They are not a trustworthy ally. Why are you pro-Trump if he was fundamentally against nordstream? Why doesnt Germany leave NATO?



This is why the EU will be a failed project soon, because German interests are inherently divergent from half of EU or more. I doubt it will become a federalist superstate allied with Russochina.

[futbol]

What? You are listing Russia's influence in their own backyard with mostly Russia-friendly ex Soviet states and comparing this to, let's say US meddling in Europe, Korea, Taiwan, Middle East and having the son of the US president sitting at the supervisory board of Ukraine's biggest energy firm? Backed by 200 military bases world-wide threatening the whole world. What the fuck?!

Russia's is the only army which is actually legally present in Syria according to international UN law as they were invited by the Syrian government, everyone else has illegally occupied the country as they have no UN mandate nor an invitation by the Syrian government. That's how international law works. Not that the West cared about it.

Your stance on all this super weird, to say the least, though not surprising. You Polish seem to believe you are now a European and military powerhouse, but you are mere pawns fighting for US hegemonial interests who are utilizing your deep-rooted anti-Russian sentiments very well.

I'm not in favour of Trump because of NS. US foreign policy will always be the same regardless of the sitting president. "US (elites') interests first, rest of the world are either enemies or vassals bar Israel." US trying to sabotage German-Russian energy pipelines is nothing new, it goes back to the 70s.

But Trump has a big mouth and makes it obvious that he doesn't care about allies, he threatens Germany with tariffs, with no military support etc. He's a hated figure by our "elites" and makes it a small bit possible that the NPC population wake up and vote for their own European interests instead of being US pawns. I'd rather be stabbed by someone who doesn't pretend instead of being backstabbed by a so called friend who blows up my energy pipeline.

Leaving NATO would be nice, 2 % of the GDP saved for useful things like education or health care instead of pumping money into US military. NATO is a bluff. When nuclear bombs go off, no one needs F16s or F35s or tanks. Turkey and Bulgaria are in NATO, Israel is not. You think the US feels an obligation, if shit hit the fan, to come and help those countries more than Israel? HA HA. If Russia actually nuked Berlin (and only Berlin), you think the US would retaliate and seal their own fate as well instead of keeping themselves safe by negotiationg at the cost of Germany? I think it's completely acceptable for the US that Europe burns and they can rebuild it.

NATO does not exist to protect its members other than the US. And that's why we could never leave NATO. All leading political and media figures in Germany are transatlantic puppets. A party that suggests exiting NATO could never exist. Neither the far left, nor the far right suggests this. Because they can't.

[Myesyats]

From an outside perspective it's Germany who is backstabbing the US by building a pipeline with Russia while not even meeting the 2% defense budget standard. And then you wonder why Trump threatens Germany when they can't even meet the 2% standard. Either leave NATO or stop playing both sides, a country can absolutely leave Nato at any time - even Trump himself has hinted at the possibility of USA withdrawing from the alliance.

There are many prorussian politicians in Germany, i don't believe that there's nobody that would ever suggest leaving.

The Polish-German partnership is also dwarfed by German interests because the stronger always win. And Germans do not like that we want to build infrastructure like a large cargo airport because it's a direct threat to German economic interest. When Ukraine was already at war, Germans sent helmets despite being one of the largest arms exporter. Now is that a reliable ally?

Looks to me like playing both sides whenever it's convenient while blaming the US for doing something of that sort.

[Pedram]

Be careful Myescats, constantly sucking America's dick has never worked out well for anyone.

[Myesyats]

"If what you want is a centrist campaign that's quiet on trans issues, tough on the border, distances itself from Palestinians, talks a lot about law and order, and reaches out to moderate Republicans, that candidate existed and she just lost"
~John Oliver on dems moving right pic.twitter.com/NXNg94ttnj

— The Serfs (youtube.com/theserftimes) (@theserfstv) November 12, 2024

Hillary Clinton in 2008:

“If they’ve committed a crime… DEPORT THEM! No questions asked. You’re gone!

If you want to become a citizen you have to pay a stiff fine, pay back taxes, and learn english.”

Today’s Democratic party would call her a MAGA far-right extremist on CNN. pic.twitter.com/O2vIiDrEz2

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) October 25, 2024

Kamala was just unreliable on all of these issues. They should've picked a candidate that is not associated with Biden who says that he'd things differently than him and Kamala.

[Pedram]

"If what you want is a centrist campaign that's quiet on trans issues, tough on the border, distances itself from Palestinians, talks a lot about law and order, and reaches out to moderate Republicans, that candidate existed and she just lost"
~John Oliver on dems moving right pic.twitter.com/NXNg94ttnj

— The Serfs (youtube.com/theserftimes) (@theserfstv) November 12, 2024

Hillary Clinton in 2008:

“If they’ve committed a crime… DEPORT THEM! No questions asked. You’re gone!

If you want to become a citizen you have to pay a stiff fine, pay back taxes, and learn english.”

Today’s Democratic party would call her a MAGA far-right extremist on CNN. pic.twitter.com/O2vIiDrEz2

— Geiger Capital (@Geiger_Capital) October 25, 2024

Kamala was just unreliable on all of these issues. They should've picked a candidate that is not associated with Biden who says that he'd things differently than him and Kamala.

She said this in 2008, and let me remind you who won that primary and the election itself, his name starts with O. centrism is the recipe for failure. excite the base and win, it really is that simple.

btw Kamala just had the worst youth turnout in decades, and you can probably guess why.

[Myesyats]

Be careful Myescats, constantly sucking America's dick has never worked out well for anyone.

You should try living between Germany and russia

Everyone cares only about themself

[Pedram]

Be careful Myescats, constantly sucking America's dick has never worked out well for anyone.

You should try living between Germany and russia

Everyone cares only about themself

You should look at Iran's history. US (and UK) propped up a undemocratic Shah in the 50s to balance out the Middle East against the Soviets and as soon as he was no longer useful to them, they left him to rot.

Americans will always look for their own interest first and Ukraine is currently fulfilling that purpose.

[Myesyats]

Be careful Myescats, constantly sucking America's dick has never worked out well for anyone.

You should try living between Germany and russia

Everyone cares only about themself

You should look at Iran's history. US (and UK) propped up a undemocratic Shah in the 50s to balance out the Middle East against the Soviets and as soon as he was no longer useful to them, they left him to rot.

Americans will always look for their own interest first and Ukraine is currently fulfilling that purpose.

Thats my point. Everyone looks at their own interests first. You think the Chinese are building infrastructure in Africa from the goodness of their heart?

We as Poles are aware that the US are propping the Ukraine war for their own interest with no regard for Ukrainian casualties. The consensus is, however, that it's also in our interest (because it is)

The weaker Russia is the better. The Nordstream would benefit only Germany in the EU, others would have to fall in line. When futbol says "Europe" understand that he means Germany alone, there are no friends in geopolitics.

[Pedram]

You should try living between Germany and russia

Everyone cares only about themself

You should look at Iran's history. US (and UK) propped up a undemocratic Shah in the 50s to balance out the Middle East against the Soviets and as soon as he was no longer useful to them, they left him to rot.

Americans will always look for their own interest first and Ukraine is currently fulfilling that purpose.

Thats my point. Everyone looks at their own interests first. You think the Chinese are building infrastructure in Africa from the goodness of their heart?

We as Poles are aware that the US are propping the Ukraine war for their own interest with no regard for Ukrainian casualties. The consensus is, however, that it's also in our interest (because it is)

The weaker Russia is the better. The Nordstream would benefit only Germany in the EU, others would have to fall in line. When futbol says "Europe" understand that he means Germany alone, there are no friends in geopolitics.

I don't think making a permanent enemy out of Russia is in anyone's interest tbh. they are far from their Soviet days but they are still quite powerful.

Poland should have stayed neutral in this conflict because when Russia eventually wins this conflict, it will not be the US (as usual) who is going to pay the price for this failure. it will be Germany, Poland, Baltic states who all collectively decided their interest is in antagonizing a neighboring superpower.

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