Re: The US Politics Thread

[Warrior]

You don't even know what you are laughing about dude, just because i acknowledge that far-left measures came to reality under Biden/Harris administration does not mean i'm conservative. Well i might be conservative in today's standards tbh

Inb4 open borders and trans surgery to children ? Positive discrimination, DEI ? You think it's a good thing ? I don't

[Pedram]

Inb4 open borders and trans surgery to children ? Positive discrimination, DEI ? You think it's a good thing ? I don't

No i don't. but those are regular talking points from conservative outlets like Fox News, Kamala or Biden never supported open borders, that's BS.

[Warrior]

Perhaps they never supported, but did nothing against it

Never watched Fox News in my life time, it's american people who sent a very clear message to those disconnected elites, which all publicly supported Kamala Harris. Stop dividing people into skin and sexual orientation categories, stop trying to please every community separately, instead have a project for the whole nation. For anybody whose patriotic republican party was the obvious choice.

[Pedram]

Democrats lost because they have became the party of college educated suburban elites not because they're "far-left". in recent years they have actively tried to distance themselves from working class issues, see Bernie's recent tweet, he explained it best.

Although you can probably say they're far-left on woke stuff and social issues but on economic axis that couldn't be farthest from the truth.

[Warrior]

Those college educated suburbans are the wokes and far-left, their conception of the world is based on marxist and communist ideas, despite living above the consequences of this concept.

Their support became a double-edged sword because Harris was perceived as more left than she truly is. Middle-class was not receptive by whatever Democrats had to say about economy.

While economy was objectively the most important aspect of this election, it was relegated to second place because of the social climate. Turned out to be a vote against wokeism, against communitarianism, against transgenderism being pushed on children and whatever else supposedly invented by Fox News yet it bothers the average joe who might be uneducated, but still intelligent enough to be done with that woke bs which poisons our lives for years now. Biden/Harris might not have been pushing for it, but it was still perceived as if they endorsed it.

[Pedram]

No Democrats are not far-left. far-left implies communism/socialism. if you said that to an European you would be laughed out of the room.

Democrats have always been liberals at best, even Sanders, who is the farthest left in the Democratic coalition, is a social Democrat. in fact there's not a single Dem representative at federal level that supports communism. AOC and other squad members are also democratic socialists.

[Myesyats]

@futbol It’s not only Germany. The entire EU is a dying empire.

CO2 neutrality by 2050 won’t save the planet if only a few countries do it. The ones and largest at the same time with the biggest emissions don’t give a fuck either way

The EU doesn’t have any large tech companies (Asia and USA do) and doesn’t export anything of value.
 
It barely exists, enacting one woke piece of legislation after another, until it eventually declines beyond repair

[Warrior]

No Democrats are not far-left. far-left implies communism/socialism. if you said that to an European you would be laughed out of the room.

Democrats have always been liberals at best, even Sanders, who is the farthest left in the Democratic coalition, is a social Democrat. in fact there's not a single Dem representative at federal level that supports communism. AOC and other squad members are also democratic socialists.

Why reply this, you did not read my post

[Pedram]

No Democrats are not far-left. far-left implies communism/socialism. if you said that to an European you would be laughed out of the room.

Democrats have always been liberals at best, even Sanders, who is the farthest left in the Democratic coalition, is a social Democrat. in fact there's not a single Dem representative at federal level that supports communism. AOC and other squad members are also democratic socialists.

Why reply this, you did not read my post

Because what you're saying is objectively false dude, if you actually think Democrats are even remotely left-wing or Marxist () or whatever else then we have nothing to discuss. keep living in your own bubble i guess.

[Warrior]

Yes, majority of democrat voters are wokes, marxists and left-wing, more than remotely. It's quite outdated to pretend otherwise.

I keep living in my own bubble... and a majority of americans will be there with me

[Arquitecto]

warrior tbf most of that demographic is exhaggerated and found on the internet for that demographic itself isn't as big as you think they are only highlighted like any extremist are highlighted.

yes they are an absolute joke to every end of the spectrum though that is for certain

[elitedam]

Those college educated suburbans are the wokes and far-left, their conception of the world is based on marxist and communist ideas, despite living above the consequences of this concept.

.

Yes, majority of democrat voters are wokes, marxists and left-wing, more than remotely. It's quite outdated to pretend otherwise.

I keep living in my own bubble... and a majority of americans will be there with me

Suburban America is Marxist now? Calm down, Jordan Peterson.

Just to be clear, this is objectively horseshit. We're all in agreement, right?

[Myesyats]

No Democrats are not far-left. far-left implies communism/socialism. if you said that to an European you would be laughed out of the room.

Democrats have always been liberals at best, even Sanders, who is the farthest left in the Democratic coalition, is a social Democrat. in fact there's not a single Dem representative at federal level that supports communism. AOC and other squad members are also democratic socialists.

IMO Bernie and AOC and that wing of the dem party is as left as liberal mainstream in Scandinavia. By and large Scandinavians are also capitalist. It's different in the US because there's only two parties, but the farthest left part of the Democratic Party is pretty left, especially culturally.

Nobody sane would ever openly describe himself as a communist today because they'd be non-electable. Not in the US and not in Europe.

It's true things like public transit, universal health care, free university, higher taxes are seen in Europe as neither left or right really, they are just widely accepted by everyone (or at least the mainstream parties).

On cultural issues democrats are more left than most Europeans. On economic policy not really, as you mention things like universal health care are seen as radical for some reason. But most dems are now pro medicare for all, want to remove student debt, want to increase taxes, pro-labor/pro-union, prioritize climate action. So that's just mainstream European left policy.

I disagree when someone says democrats are basically European center or something like that.

What fascinates me is American media. Not only are they openly democrat, they say 'Oh we lost because of racists, mysoginists and the uneducated'. It's absolutely insane! I can't imagine anything like that here. Obviously there are media that lean left and right, but for someone to make comments like these openly, they'd be immediately disqualified. I've always thought of Trump's "fake news" shtick as overboard but American media are indeed something else entirely.

[Myesyats]

The Democratic Party focuses too much on these identity politics instead of just treating everyone as humans, without boxing anyone into groups based on race/gender/age or anything, simply promote those policies that are seemingly popular among majority of regular citizens like free healthcare and no student debt and they will win. But if they continue on this path of identity politics then more centrists, whites and also minorities will flip red or stay home

It's definitely going too far, and people tend to react by moving to the right. Always goes in cycles. Obviously cultural issues are not the be all end all, border security and economy was huge this election.

One funny thing I wanted to mention, reddit told me one joke about Puerto Rico being an island of garbage was gonna sway the election, surprisingly Trump noted the best GOP showing with Latinos since over 52 years! (and Blacks since 48 years)

[Myesyats]

As for communism, yet again. Few people describe themselves as such these days, but the liberal motto of this century is "You will own nothing and you will be happy"

Some form of communism is coming whether we like it or not, the elites definitely push for less and less ownership every year, and more subscription models. You will loan, lease, rent - never fully own

[Pedram]

No Democrats are not far-left. far-left implies communism/socialism. if you said that to an European you would be laughed out of the room.

Democrats have always been liberals at best, even Sanders, who is the farthest left in the Democratic coalition, is a social Democrat. in fact there's not a single Dem representative at federal level that supports communism. AOC and other squad members are also democratic socialists.

IMO Bernie and AOC and that wing of the dem party is as left as liberal mainstream in Scandinavia. By and large Scandinavians are also capitalist. It's different in the US because there's only two parties, but the farthest left part of the Democratic Party is pretty left, especially culturally.

Nobody sane would ever openly describe himself as a communist today because they'd be non-electable. Not in the US and not in Europe.

It's true things like public transit, universal health care, free university, higher taxes are seen in Europe as neither left or right really, they are just widely accepted by everyone (or at least the mainstream parties).

On cultural issues democrats are more left than most Europeans. On economic policy not really, as you mention things like universal health care are seen as radical for some reason. But most dems are now pro medicare for all, want to remove student debt, want to increase taxes, pro-labor/pro-union, prioritize climate action. So that's just mainstream European left policy.

I disagree when someone says democrats are basically European center or something like that.

What fascinates me is American media. Not only are they openly democrat, they say 'Oh we lost because of racists, mysoginists and the uneducated'. It's absolutely insane! I can't imagine anything like that here. Obviously there are media that lean left and right, but for someone to make comments like these openly, they'd be immediately disqualified. I've always thought of Trump's "fake news" shtick as overboard but American media are indeed something else entirely.

France does actually have communists in their assembly though. whatever it's in name only or they truly believe in it i'm not sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Communist_Party

[Warrior]

Those college educated suburbans are the wokes and far-left, their conception of the world is based on marxist and communist ideas, despite living above the consequences of this concept.

.

Yes, majority of democrat voters are wokes, marxists and left-wing, more than remotely. It's quite outdated to pretend otherwise.

I keep living in my own bubble... and a majority of americans will be there with me

Suburban America is Marxist now? Calm down, Jordan Peterson.

Just to be clear, this is objectively horseshit. We're all in agreement, right?

Yup, i stand by what i said. Wokes and leftists are inspired by marxist ideas. They don't live accordingly of course.

Democrats have endorsed those people or so it seemed, that's why they lost the election.

Idk who Jordan Peterson is

[elitedam]

I try to avoid talking too much about culture wars stuff because I haven't been in the US in a while, and I feel like there is a massive difference between the wild shit you see online and people's everyday experiences with it.

I didn't see too much of it in Kamala's campaign or most of the other democrats. Kamala's seemed to be mainly about abortion and why Trump is a piece of shit, and the dems running for Senate focused a lot on local issues.

[Pedram]

Describe marxism for me without using the wikipedia

[Warrior]

No arguments ? Go for semantics

I know what marxism is, don't care to give you any proof

Instead explain to me how wokeism and far-left is NOT based on marxism

[Myesyats]

France does actually have communists in their assembly though. whatever it's in name only or they truly believe in it i'm not sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Communist_Party

There are indeed some exceptions but these are fringe parties that nobody takes seriously. I don't follow French politics that closely but im surprised that party has any representatives with 2% of the vote. I guess they got in as part of some wide left coalition.

[Myesyats]

I don't understand the reasoning for this. Why make it illegal to require ID if not for nefarious reasons?

[Myesyats]

warrior tbf most of that demographic is exhaggerated and found on the internet for that demographic itself isn't as big as you think they are only highlighted like any extremist are highlighted.

yes they are an absolute joke to every end of the spectrum though that is for certain

Identity politics, dei has become mainstream democrat these days. I dont think trans surgery for children is seen as extreme within the party these days, obviously they frame it as "healthcare"

The dem party used to be the party of meritocracy, free speech and freedom, is it that anymore? They want to shut down X just because it's not 100% dem narrative like reddit. I mean, for months mainstream media made everyone believe Biden is mentally well until they couldn't pretend anymore when he logged off on live coverage. Their power is insane.

[Pedram]

warrior tbf most of that demographic is exhaggerated and found on the internet for that demographic itself isn't as big as you think they are only highlighted like any extremist are highlighted.

yes they are an absolute joke to every end of the spectrum though that is for certain

Identity politics, dei has become mainstream democrat these days. I dont think trans surgery for children is seen as extreme within the party these days, obviously they frame it as "healthcare"

The dem party used to be the party of meritocracy, free speech and freedom, is it that anymore? They want to shut down X just because it's not 100% dem narrative like reddit.  I mean, for months mainstream media made everyone believe Biden is mentally well until they couldn't pretend anymore when he logged off on live coverage. Their power is insane.

There will be a big intra party fight in the Democratic party soon and these stuff will be discussed.

I assume most of them agree that they need to cut down on the woke stuff and fully focus on working class issues but you never know with the consultant class who runs the party. yesterday Chris Murphy the senator from Connecticut explicitly admitted that they can't embrace populist policies because it would hurt their high-income base.

6/ We don't listen enough; we tell people what's good for them.

And when progressives like Bernie aggressively go after the elites that hold people down, they are shunned as dangerous populists. Why? Maybe because true economic populism is bad for our high-income base.

— Chris Murphy 🟧 (@ChrisMurphyCT) November 10, 2024

So it's not clear which way the party will go. they have to choose a side, either fully become the party of the affluent white suburbs or embrace Bernie's working class vision.

[Myesyats]

Yeah it will be interesting to see which way the party will go and if they are capable of introspection. They are losing even minority votes so they must do something

They need to stop promoting the most radical people out there. I was never pro-republican really and it's interesting to me they are becoming the common sense party. I never imagined Trump could win the popular vote either.

[Pedram]

Kamala’s loss in four headlines: pic.twitter.com/xT2nYl9Pe3

— Mac (@GoodPoliticGuy) November 10, 2024

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