ESL Poll

I don't know what a juventuz poster is, I never went or would go on a site with such a terrible name. From the chats that I'm in, my perception is that the Italian fans are for a SL because they have a disdain for the rest of league because they feel that clowns like Preziosi, Lotito etc have held the league (and Juventus) back with their antics. There's also no love lost for the shit that was pulled in 2006, so there's a certain desire to go out the door with a big "fuck you"

Freeza wrote:All the people against a Super League, what would you realistically do in order to save clubs financially and improve the quality of play while also making games affordable?

Missed this post before but the question is interesting so i come back

Just to explain my perspective i will start by saying, i don't believe big clubs would die no matter what, be it CL or ESL. The medium to small clubs is another story. And i made several research, read Perez statements no where it is explained how ESL system helps medium clubs, small clubs, and big clubs left behind.

How to save football ? My answer: the opposite of what they are doing now
- limit the amount of players available in the system
- limit the amount of transfers
** Stimulate domestic leagues:
- tax for foreign transfers
- tax related to age (younger player = higher tax)
- dismantle B clubs


Sadly none of that is realistic. Because it helps medium to small clubs precisely and Juve for example won't make the effort and quite understandable from a logical standpoint. It is football not charity. Another big problem UEFA is corrupt and busy arm wrestling with Perez Agnelli etc. Them as well clearly don't care for the clubs.
I come to conclusion ESL is bollocks, not a tool to improve/save football from Covid as they pretend, really a money move that screws others. We are in day 3 of ESL... it will not stop there

As football fan we are stuck between rock and a hard place. Held hostages by both sides cupidity, at this point, the best outcome would be an agreement that scraps ESL and maintains CL. No matter the consequences it cannot be worse than ESL.

The Super League is not an endearing idea, and the absolutely trash introduction of it will apparently result in it's quick undoing. Perez is going to give another interview today in the shitty "El Larguero" radio program but that won't be worth a damn. Retarded execution of a coup/power play.

McLewis wrote:They have not been a truly competitive team since the heydey of Deion Sanders.

Barry

I don't like the Lions example. Even the worst team in the NFL is good enough to destroy the best one if they don't show up. Also, for every Lions, there were plenty other team that made a turnaround. The Colts got Manning and then dominated the AFC for a decade along with the Patriots. Saints picked second in 2006 and 9 months later were in the Championship game and, after four years, they won the Superbowl. More recently, 9ers were second in the draft and after three years they were in the SB. It's those turnarounds that make the sport great, but they don't happen if you relegate them after one or two bad years. It's also true that continuously sucking is not good for the league, so the best solution would be to kick them out if they are at the bottom for 3 or 4 or 5 years and then invite some other hot shot team to take their place. But you can't kick them out after one bad year, not when money is so important. If you do that, then the bottom will never grow and it will create disparity throughout the league

adun101 wrote:I don't know what a juventuz poster is, I never went or would go on a site with such a terrible name. From the chats that I'm in, my perception is that the Italian fans are for a SL because they have a disdain for the rest of league because they feel that clowns like Preziosi, Lotito etc have held the league (and Juventus) back with their antics. There's also no love lost for the shit that was pulled in 2006, so there's a certain desire to go out the door with a big "fuck you"

Damn we have won the league for nearly a decade. Lotito has not the slightest importance for Juventus, we do basically what we want in Italy and our problems are self-inflicted.

And calciopoli, yes it was pure bull shit, but pulling this move is not very satisfying because those dodgy fucks from Milan are also ESL founders.

Adun is right though, many Juventus fans do feel this way. There are a lot of hard feelings after calciopoli and always a bunch of drama with De Laurentiis and co. Not that I agree that the result should be to abandon Serie A. In any case, that was not the intention of the super league, the intention was essentially a second CL based on overinflated historical importance and popularity rather than merit that would run as a midweek tournament in addition to domestic leagues and the CL

Looks like teams are dropping out though

Robespierre wrote:

Warrior wrote:

Robespierre wrote:Curiosity : looking at ESL club forums on web

majority of  Real Madrid fans  - favorable
of Juve fans - favorable
of Milan fans - favorable
of Inter fans - against
of Barca fans - against
of EVERY English teams - against ( City fans are 94 % against it ! )

Juve fans are favorable where ? On juventuz

What i can tell by experience, the moral aspect is not even considered. All they see is we are up top and that's fine. Me i feel ashamed, that we cannot win Champions League, so our owner creates another exclusive league as founder. Fuck off

Agnelli lost his mind since 2017. It started with JJ logo, right there you knew he cares only to turn the club into a marketable franchise first and foremost. Proof: only Ronaldo matters. Look at the rest of the squad, it is unworthy of wearing bianconero. Beppe out, midfield depleted, in the shits for squad finances... who cares anymore ? The fans

 

I don't t know Juventuz but on the biggest Italian Juve forum (named Vecchiasignora) 74% (!)   are in favour of Superleague

i believe it's similar on the foreign forum. If I remember correctly, Rincon (he ' s hostile to Super League, such as you) said it

Yes, the English speaking forum Juventuz.com is not nearly as big as vecchiasignora but it is very active has also 70% support.

Fans that don't give a single fuck about anything except Juve getting more money. They have an extremely antagonistic relation with Italian football.

adun101 wrote:

McLewis wrote:They have not been a truly competitive team since the heydey of Deion Sanders.

Barry

I don't like the Lions example. Even the worst team in the NFL is good enough to destroy the best one if they don't show up. Also, for every Lions, there were plenty other team that made a turnaround. The Colts got Manning and then dominated the AFC for a decade along with the Patriots. Saints picked second in 2006 and 9 months later were in the Championship game and, after four years, they won the Superbowl. More recently, 9ers were second in the draft and after three years they were in the SB. It's those turnarounds that make the sport great, but they don't happen if you relegate them after one or two bad years. It's also true that continuously sucking is not good for the league, so the best solution would be to kick them out if they are at the bottom for 3 or 4 or 5 years and then invite some other hot shot team to take their place. But you can't kick them out after one bad year, not when money is so important. If you do that, then the bottom will never grow and it will create disparity throughout the league

We already have a system, thank you very much.
It's a pyramid of leagues with promotion and relegation. It works spendidly.

So we don't need your input. You can stop thinking, and enjoy the beautiful game of football.

It does not work splendidly

Clubs pay ridiculous fees for players , and the agents get half of it. Clubs are allowed to spend well beyond their means and flirt with bankruptcy every year . A few Clubs have an inordinate amount of influence . Corruption scandals are common place . Money is a better indicator of success than smart transfers or prudent Financials. Clubs are often the playthings of billionaires with no thought put into local support.

These are real problems. Unfortunately not the problems the Super League was trying to solve.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:It does not work splendidly

Clubs pay ridiculous fees for players , and the agents get half of it. Clubs are allowed to spend well beyond their means and flirt with bankruptcy every year . A few Clubs have an inordinate amount of influence . Corruption scandals are common place . Money is a better indicator of success than smart transfers or prudent Financials. Clubs are often the playthings of billionaires with no thought put into local support.

These are real problems. Unfortunately not the problems the Super League was trying to solve.

Those problems exist in spite of the football pyramid, which is a beautiful thing.

The super league was either not solving those problems, or straight up making them worse.

Warrior wrote:

adun101 wrote:I don't know what a juventuz poster is, I never went or would go on a site with such a terrible name. From the chats that I'm in, my perception is that the Italian fans are for a SL because they have a disdain for the rest of league because they feel that clowns like Preziosi, Lotito etc have held the league (and Juventus) back with their antics. There's also no love lost for the shit that was pulled in 2006, so there's a certain desire to go out the door with a big "fuck you"

Damn we have won the league for nearly a decade. Lotito has not the slightest importance for Juventus, we do basically what we want in Italy and our problems are self-inflicted.

And calciopoli, yes it was pure bull shit, but pulling this move is not very satisfying because those dodgy fucks from Milan are also ESL founders.

Didn't you pay attention this year? DeLa and Lotito run the league and it's been like that for years. Motherfucker sent his players in knowing they were positive and all he got was a 100k fine. And the point was that Juve are held down by the fact that they play in Serie A, which could be helped if the league would grow, but it won't happen because of those clowns

Hapless_Hans wrote:
We already have a system, thank you very much.
It's a pyramid of leagues with promotion and relegation. It works spendidly.

So we don't need your input. You can stop thinking, and enjoy the beautiful game of football.

Sure, it works so beautifully that you have the same team winning over and over in three of the five big leagues. Maybe that's fine for you, but for me, if there's no challenge, then winning means nothing. FOOTBALL IS FOR THE FANS. Lol, some fans. Some of them are just happy to win meaningless titles while the rest of them are happy to just be there, with no hope of winning shit. Yep, that's the spirit of all sport, just fucking be there

I don't identify with either type and, since I don't care to follow what will soon be the de facto super league, because English footy simply doesn't jive with me, I'll probably just head out at some point and let you people enjoy your fake sport

rincon wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:It does not work splendidly

Clubs pay ridiculous fees for players , and the agents get half of it. Clubs are allowed to spend well beyond their means and flirt with bankruptcy every year . A few Clubs have an inordinate amount of influence . Corruption scandals are common place . Money is a better indicator of success than smart transfers or prudent Financials. Clubs are often the playthings of billionaires with no thought put into local support.

These are real problems. Unfortunately not the problems the Super League was trying to solve.

Those problems exist in spite of the football pyramid, which is a beautiful thing.

The super league was either not solving those problems, or straight up making them worse.

That's not true. Say what you will about it, but a league that is not tied to UEFA would write rules much faster and enforce them much more efficiently. The governing body would me much smaller, so it wouldn't be susceptible to corruption and bureaucracy and it would also try fo follow the interest of the league. Of course, that assumes that the people running the show would know what they're doing, but the last two days showed us that that would not have been the case

Honestly, no sane fan is happy with the current running of things in the world of football. We are already going towards monopolising football with lack of punishment for anti-competitive actions added by corrupt officials (both in UEFA and especially in FIFA). I personally have been wanting a big change for so long.

But to think Super League is going to be the saviour where it is proven to make things worse, is laughable.

So who gets the funds from all these breakout fees ? Real madrid ? JPMorgan?

BarrileteCosmico wrote:So who gets the funds from all these breakout fees ? Real madrid ? JPMorgan?

That’s a good question. Would be hilarious if this whole thing was just a fundraiser for Real

Tfw all 11 clubs fund Mbappe and Halaand for Madrid

Meanwhile AC Milan buys Marco Parolo.

adun101 wrote:

McLewis wrote:They have not been a truly competitive team since the heydey of Deion Sanders.

Barry

I don't like the Lions example. Even the worst team in the NFL is good enough to destroy the best one if they don't show up. Also, for every Lions, there were plenty other team that made a turnaround. The Colts got Manning and then dominated the AFC for a decade along with the Patriots. Saints picked second in 2006 and 9 months later were in the Championship game and, after four years, they won the Superbowl. More recently, 9ers were second in the draft and after three years they were in the SB. It's those turnarounds that make the sport great, but they don't happen if you relegate them after one or two bad years. It's also true that continuously sucking is not good for the league, so the best solution would be to kick them out if they are at the bottom for 3 or 4 or 5 years and then invite some other hot shot team to take their place. But you can't kick them out after one bad year, not when money is so important. If you do that, then the bottom will never grow and it will create disparity throughout the league

Thought Barry, wrote Deion. Thanks for catching that.

Isn't "kicking them out" a form of relegation though? I mean this is all a bit moot now that clubs are reportedly pulling out this ESL, however to your point....that has never happened in the NFL, the NBA or any other American league. When a team sucks as badly as the Lions have, they don't get kicked out, even if they should. That's the whole point of a closed league, right? Teams get added, but none get removed. At worst, if a franchise isn't making enough money, it gets moved to a new location that will bring in more money, such as what's happened with the Raiders and the Chargers most recently.

Frankly, that model (in its current form) is just not compatible with European football, no matter how much the top clubs want it to be. I think today illustrated that, for whatever reason you'd want to attach to it.

I'm sure these clubs will try again at some point. This seems to be inevitable.