Re: The US Politics Thread

[Myesyats]

We may very well be looking at an open Democratic convention. I'll need to look up the last time that's happened. Feels like it's been well over 150 years.

Who's the likeliest candidate to replace him?

Kamala Harris, as the current VP, would be the presumptive successor.

There's also California Governor Gavin Newsome, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg.

I think those are the likely field of potential alternatives.

Is there a legit chance of a swap happening tho? How much % do you give it

[Pedram]

We may very well be looking at an open Democratic convention. I'll need to look up the last time that's happened. Feels like it's been well over 150 years.

Who's the likeliest candidate to replace him?

Kamala Harris, as the current VP, would be the presumptive successor.

There's also California Governor Gavin Newsome, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg.

I think those are the likely field of potential alternatives.

Such a shame AOC is too young, i think she would've been able to mobilize the youth vote like no other.

[Myesyats]

She would also mobilize Trumps voters though as they see her as far left. And boomers who want to vote for a centrist would be put off

Honestly believe they still need a candidate than can appeal to some right-wingers and moderates too, someone middle-of-the-way

[Vibe]

Sounds like they don't have a string enough name.

Michelle Obama That is certainly a name

[FennecFox7]

She would also mobilize Trumps voters though as they see her as far left. And boomers who want to vote for a centrist would be put off

Honestly believe they still need a candidate than can appeal to some right-wingers and moderates too, someone middle-of-the-way

Sure, we should focus on class consciousness and workers rights, but that would require someone such as AOC or further left to lead the democratic party. You're literally describing Biden and Hillary, no thank you. I'm done with enlightened centrists running the democratic party down a neoliberal landscape. No thanks.

As McLewis said, I agree with someone that is much younger but has a Social democratic policy or even further left. The rich and corporations are eating this country alive. I used to be a Libertarian, but fuck that. Among so many different things, the working and middle class needs to be strong and functioning in this country. It's ridiculous more then 3/4 of this country are paycheck to paycheck while the rich run off laughing and destroying the country.

All the progressives and leftists have to do to appeal to the more conservative voters is reduce bourgeoise identity politics (LGBT rights, etc) and promote class consciousness and realize the source of many problems is crony capitalism

[Myesyats]

She would also mobilize Trumps voters though as they see her as far left. And boomers who want to vote for a centrist would be put off

Honestly believe they still need a candidate than can appeal to some right-wingers and moderates too, someone middle-of-the-way

Sure, we should focus on class consciousness and workers rights, but that would require someone such as AOC or further left to lead the democratic party. You're literally describing Biden and Hillary, no thank you. I'm done with enlightened centrists running the democratic party down a neoliberal landscape. No thanks.

As McLewis said, I agree with someone that is much younger but has a Social democratic policy or even further left. The rich and corporations are eating this country alive. I used to be a Libertarian, but fuck that. Among so many different things, the working and middle class needs to be strong and functioning in this country. It's ridiculous more then 3/4 of this country are paycheck to paycheck while the rich run off laughing and destroying the country.

All the progressives and leftists have to do to appeal to the more conservative voters is reduce bourgeoise identity politics (LGBT rights, etc) and promote class consciousness and realize the source of many problems is crony capitalism

I don't disagree with that

just saying at this particular point in time, to beat Trump someone different is needed

you think AOC wins vs trump in a couple months hypothetically?

[FennecFox7]

That’s what they said about Hilary and she lost,

The democrats have dug their own grave. It’s too late for them to win. On a two month notice, no, AOC wouldn’t win, and it’s really no one but Biden and the democrats fault, but I would rather run her then a guy who can’t even complete a sentence.


To be honest with you, I don’t care if Trump wins. Progressives and socialists and further left people in the party have been warning them of their downfall if they kept pushing the corporate line. Now it’s happening. Couldn’t care less. Maybe it’ll force the democrats to change.

Plus, she needs another year I think until she can run (I know the situation you proposed was hypothetical), she’s 34 years old

[McLewis]

We may very well be looking at an open Democratic convention. I'll need to look up the last time that's happened. Feels like it's been well over 150 years.

Who's the likeliest candidate to replace him?

Kamala Harris, as the current VP, would be the presumptive successor.

There's also California Governor Gavin Newsome, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg.

I think those are the likely field of potential alternatives.

Is there a legit chance of a swap happening tho? How much % do you give it

Given the majority of the pressure is coming from media, pundits and donors, but not from Dem party leadership, I'm going to put the % somewhere in the high 20s, low 30s. If that donor group starts to increase that pressure, that might change things.

Also, if we start to see some of that leadership begin to seriously consider it (I'm talking power players like Jeffries in the House, Schumer in the Senate, Harrison over at the DNC, and most importantly, First lady Jill Biden) then that percentage will go up.

[McLewis]

Sounds like they don't have a string enough name.

Michelle Obama That is certainly a name

She was trending last night along with her husband, but it won't happen.

[McLewis]

Regarding AOC, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that she's far more effective in Congress than in the Executive. She's well on her way to becoming immensely powerful. I think she'll lead the Progressive Caucus at some point. Probably a Speakership as well.

The chance we progressives had was Bernie in 2016. It will be at least another generation before we get another shot. The Gen Zers that are coming up may give us that chance, but their politics aren't as straightforward as it was for us millenials.

[McLewis]

She would also mobilize Trumps voters though as they see her as far left. And boomers who want to vote for a centrist would be put off

Honestly believe they still need a candidate than can appeal to some right-wingers and moderates too, someone middle-of-the-way

All the progressives and leftists have to do to appeal to the more conservative voters is reduce bourgeoise identity politics (LGBT rights, etc) and promote class consciousness and realize the source of many problems is crony capitalism

I don't think progressives should be appealing to conservative voters at all.

What progressives need to be doing is truly doing the work in underserved communities of color. An inconvenient truth about Bernie in 2016 and 2020 is this absolute reticence to engage with Black voters, particularly in the Deep South. His insistence on class politics as the overall umbrella that includes racial injustice very much alienated Black Democrats. He ceded that ground to the Center Left candidates like HRC and Biden and paid for it dearly. He didn't even try honestly and that's the real tragedy of Bernie-style progressivism in this country. It works well in places like Portland and Seattle, but falls flat in Atlanta, Detroit, Baltimore, etc.

[BarrileteCosmico]

Dems kind of did this to themselves. 20 people ran in 2020 and they chose the only one that would be too old to run again in 2024.

Felt bad for Biden. Looked absolutely lost our there. He should step aside and enjoy his last years.

[McLewis]

I've been watching the weekend shows on CNN and MSNBC and the center-left punditry is already shifting away from this. They're essentially telling the "Biden should step aside" crowd to lock in and focus on beating Trump by backing Biden. They're attempting to shut down any talk of replacing him. They act as if even pausing to consider whether Biden should continue as candidate is heresy and a boon to Trump. It's ridiculous.

[FennecFox7]

She would also mobilize Trumps voters though as they see her as far left. And boomers who want to vote for a centrist would be put off

Honestly believe they still need a candidate than can appeal to some right-wingers and moderates too, someone middle-of-the-way

All the progressives and leftists have to do to appeal to the more conservative voters is reduce bourgeoise identity politics (LGBT rights, etc) and promote class consciousness and realize the source of many problems is crony capitalism

I don't think progressives should be appealing to conservative voters at all.

What progressives need to be doing is truly doing the work in underserved communities of color. An inconvenient truth about Bernie in 2016 and 2020 is this absolute reticence to engage with Black voters, particularly in the Deep South. His insistence on class politics as the overall umbrella that includes racial injustice very much alienated Black Democrats. He ceded that ground to the Center Left candidates like HRC and Biden and paid for it dearly. He didn't even try honestly and that's the real tragedy of Bernie-style progressivism in this country. It works well in places like Portland and Seattle, but falls flat in Atlanta, Detroit, Baltimore, etc.

We partly disagree here. I understand the systemic inequalities blacks have had to go through and the history of violence and racism they have had to endure (an understatement), but it doesn’t change the fact that class politics would help these people more then liberal empty speak about social justice. When have the white liberals truly helped minorities? Even Malcolm X speaks on this. They are liars and use racial injustice as a talking point to get votes.

[FennecFox7]

I've been watching the weekend shows on CNN and MSNBC and the center-left punditry is already shifting away from this. They're essentially telling the "Biden should step aside" crowd to lock in and focus on beating Trump by backing Biden. They're attempting to shut down any talk of replacing him. They act as if even pausing to consider whether Biden should continue as candidate is heresy and a boon to Trump. It's ridiculous.

It’s crazy. They would rather lose the election to trump. I have no sympathy for the DNC. And no sympathy for Biden, a corporate puppet his whole life, I feel bad for the American people who have to suffer. If trump wins, it is what it is, democrats have only themselves to blame.

[McLewis]

She would also mobilize Trumps voters though as they see her as far left. And boomers who want to vote for a centrist would be put off

Honestly believe they still need a candidate than can appeal to some right-wingers and moderates too, someone middle-of-the-way

All the progressives and leftists have to do to appeal to the more conservative voters is reduce bourgeoise identity politics (LGBT rights, etc) and promote class consciousness and realize the source of many problems is crony capitalism

I don't think progressives should be appealing to conservative voters at all.

What progressives need to be doing is truly doing the work in underserved communities of color. An inconvenient truth about Bernie in 2016 and 2020 is this absolute reticence to engage with Black voters, particularly in the Deep South. His insistence on class politics as the overall umbrella that includes racial injustice very much alienated Black Democrats. He ceded that ground to the Center Left candidates like HRC and Biden and paid for it dearly. He didn't even try honestly and that's the real tragedy of Bernie-style progressivism in this country. It works well in places like Portland and Seattle, but falls flat in Atlanta, Detroit, Baltimore, etc.

We partly disagree here. I understand the systemic inequalities blacks have had to go through and the history of violence and racism they have had to endure (an understatement), but it doesn’t change the fact that class politics would help these people more then liberal empty speak about social justice. When have the white liberals truly helped minorities? Even Malcolm X speaks on this. They are liars and use racial injustice as a talking point to get votes.

I think it's important to understand the context in which Malcolm X said that, which was a call for Black self-determination. He said that as a rebuke of the notion that Black folks could rely on the kindness of white liberals and moderates to progress forward. And he's right. The lip service from moderate Dems and the shoving of issues uniquely impacting our community into the greater umbrella of "class struggles" by Bernie Progressives is instructive that if we want better for ourselves as a community, it starts with us and no one else.

I've been watching the weekend shows on CNN and MSNBC and the center-left punditry is already shifting away from this. They're essentially telling the "Biden should step aside" crowd to lock in and focus on beating Trump by backing Biden. They're attempting to shut down any talk of replacing him. They act as if even pausing to consider whether Biden should continue as candidate is heresy and a boon to Trump. It's ridiculous.

It’s crazy. They would rather lose the election to trump. I have no sympathy for the DNC. And no sympathy for Biden, a corporate puppet his whole life, I feel bad for the American people who have to suffer. If trump wins, it is what it is, democrats have only themselves to blame.

A true primary should've occurred. Not the farcical one that actually did happen. It is what it is now. Just as in 2020, my vote is against Trump. It's not for Biden.

[McLewis]

The Supreme Court rules that President Trump has "absolute immunity" from criminal prosecution for all "official acts" he took while in office. The vote is 6–3 with all three liberals dissenting. https://t.co/ovLYlcsF4s

— Mark Joseph Stern (@mjs_DC) July 1, 2024

We no longer have a President. We now have a King.

[McLewis]

My 2nd take: Joe Biden should issue executive orders for the following:

- Wipe out all Student loan debt
- Wipe out all medical debt
- Wipe out all mortgage debt
- Create reparations to the descendants of Enslaved Africans to be paid by every state, including the Fed govt', in existence from 1619 to 1965.

Who will stop him? The Supreme Court will strike down those orders and POTUS will now be free to ignore them given these could all be considered "official acts". What stops him from targeting the SCOTUS itself? Absolutely nothing at this point.

He could, of course, be in impeached by Congress. What stops him from activating SEAL teams (or even just the Department of Justice itself) to coerce and/or eliminate those members of Congress? That activation would be considered an "official act".

This was such a thorough dismantling of accountability that all Presidents have been held to that I'm still very much in disbelief.

[BarcaLearning]

Not sure if I should start a new thread about this US election? Or just post here? Cos im worried about the world nowadays especially whereas b4 I couldnt care less

I knew next to zero b4 Trump got elected for that first time since politics never interested me at all, but I had to understand why tf ppl voted for him when I thought he was just some TV clown Anyway, I know much more than then, but still only little... what I wanna ask atm is why Democrats dont or cant find a better candidate than Biden? Hes just been too old to do it anymore n its been evident for a long while? I read somewhere cos the power holders dont wanna pass it onto the newer generations yet? So is it that or they really just couldnt find some one good enough to do it? I find it pretty amazing that the US still can only conjure these two again to fight for it?

[McLewis]

Not sure if I should start a new thread about this US election? Or just post here? Cos im worried about the world nowadays especially whereas b4 I couldnt care less

I knew next to zero b4 Trump got elected for that first time since politics never interested me at all, but I had to understand why tf ppl voted for him when I thought he was just some TV clown Anyway, I know much more than then, but still only little... what I wanna ask atm is why Democrats dont or cant find a better candidate than Biden? Hes just been too old to do it anymore n its been evident for a long while? I read somewhere cos the power holders dont wanna pass it onto the newer generations yet? So is it that or they really just couldnt find some one good enough to do it? I find it pretty amazing that the US still can only conjure these two again to fight for it?

We (left-sided voting populace) were fed a narrative from the Democratic party that Biden is the best and only candidate that can beat Trump. We voted in our state-level primary elections based on this narrative.

Now many of us on progressive wing of American politics never wanted Biden to begin with. We wanted a younger candidate that was more in touch with the Millennial and Gen Z generations, given both are expected to be the largest age-based voting blocs for the immediate future.

We were told by the Boomer generation that because Trump was an existential threat and Biden, through his connection to Obama, there could only ever be one true candidate that could win that 2020 election and this 2024 election.

Now the predictable has happened. Biden is showing his age(badly) and we're left with 2 choices:

- Stick with him and potentially lose not just the White House, but both the House and Senate, handing Trump a GOP supermajority. A Biden win would likely, at most, result in the status quo we have right now.

- Use this time to choose a new candidate, coalesce around that candidate and pivot towards bombarding Trump relentlessly from Convention Day to Election Day. The re-energizing around that new candidate could help candidates in down ballot races, keeping Dems in control of the Senate at the very least and helping them win back the House at best.

[futbol_bill]

IMO, Biden has to step down and support his successor, likely Pamela. There is increasing pressure every day now and the numbers are clearly saying a disaster for Biden, the party and the country. I’m actually looking forward to Trump trying to deal with a woman, a black one at that. I just hope it isn’t too late. McLewis, I think there aren’t as many leftists as you think. If you don’t fear what another trump presidential run with the entire Republican Party at his knees will do to your democracy, then you are in deed misguided. The only way to stop it, is to have a viable somewhat centrist candidate.

I normally don’t get into political subjects, but I can’t resist this one.

[Pedram]

I don't like Kamala's chances against Trump tbh, best option would be Biden releasing his delegates and the party deciding the nominee in the convention.

[VivaStPauli]

The sad part is that Biden is a horrible candidate, but a more than decent president (from a moderate Democrat's perspective).
He's fucking up the campaign right now, but he did get a lot done in office.

[McLewis]

IMO, Biden has to step down and support his successor, likely Pamela. There is increasing pressure every day now and the numbers are clearly saying a disaster for Biden, the party and the country. I’m actually looking forward to Trump trying to deal with a woman, a black one at that. I just hope it isn’t too late. McLewis, I think there aren’t as many leftists as you think. If you don’t fear what another trump presidential run with the entire Republican Party at his knees will do to your democracy, then you are in deed misguided. The only way to stop it, is to have a viable somewhat centrist candidate.

I normally don’t get into political subjects, but I can’t resist this one.

I may be a leftist, but I will absolutely vote for whichever Democrat ends up on the ballot over Trump. It truly doesn't matter to me. I hate that "vote Blue no matter who" shit on principle, but the reality is, it's just what we have to do in this election. This isn't the time for protest votes. Many of us on the far left know this, even if we hate it because it betrays the deepest parts of our ideology. If Biden loses, it will not be because we didn't do our part, but we'll all suffer because of it anyway.

Trump fears VP Kamala Harris. The entire MAGA/Right Wing/Conservative political apparatus are utterly terrified of her. They've fundraised untold millions off of the fear of her becoming POTUS. I personally didn't like her time as a prosecutor in California and I think her candidacy back in 2020 was an absolute disaster, but she was an excellent, progressive Senator and is painfully underutilized as VP. I don't consider her to be charismatic nor do I consider to be particularly inspiring, but she's definitely the most qualified alternative we have right now. If Biden steps aside (and he should), I won't have any compunction about voting for her. None at all. Very few of us on the left would. If I'm honest, this would've already happened if she were a white man. US politics are not only very misogynistic, there's quite a bit of misogynoir at play here as well.

[McLewis]

I don't like Kamala's chances against Trump tbh, best option would be Biden releasing his delegates and the party deciding the nominee in the convention.

She's well within the margin of error in the H2H polling against Trump. That's heartening. Additionally, she's got the most formidable voting bloc behind her in Black voters. Black voters are the reason she's VP to begin with. We'll absolutely show up for her if she's the nominee and, just like all of the other elections in this century, we'll lead the way in doing our part to ensure she wins the popular vote. If anyone's going to fuck it up for her, it would be white male voters, who absolutely detest her.

[McLewis]

The sad part is that Biden is a horrible candidate, but a more than decent president (from a moderate Democrat's perspective).
He's fucking up the campaign right now, but he did get a lot done in office.

I was listening to a UK politics podcast that covers US politics and they've said what the US media are very hesitant to say: Biden has a massive ego and that's what's preventing him from stepping aside. He feels like he's dedicated his whole life to this country (he has) and feels being pushed aside at this point would be very disrespectful to that service. And no one within his inner circle has the courage to tell him that stepping aside would probably be the greatest service he could possible to do to this country right now. He really should do it now, while he still has control of the narrative, rather than take his chances at the convention and see those electors turn against him.

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