Re: 2020 US presidential election

by Myesyats Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:31 pm

Freeza wrote:
Myesyats wrote:
futbol_bill wrote:The dumbest shit going on in America is the idiots who believe in all the Trump BS. And that these folks are mainly from rural area! Maybe your point of educational system is right on point?

He promised to drain the swamp but drowned in it himself. Instead of investing in youth, Americans believed a 74 year old senior citizen is going to expose corruption while being heavily corrupted himself. Sadly he has undeservedly become part of history now, the only hope is that he ends up impeached and in prison.

he is the swamp

Yes. He drowned in his own vomit Laughing

I wonder how his mental state will deteriorate now that he's been banned off social media. I'm loving every minute of it.

by Myesyats Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:48 pm

McLewis wrote:
futbol_bill wrote:The dumbest shit going on in America is the idiots who believe in all the Trump BS. And that these folks are mainly from rural area! Maybe your point of educational system is right on point?

Had we a better educational system, Trump would've been laughed out of his own building after he came down that elevator.

Republicans rail against our efforts to defund police departments so they can be rebuilt from scratch, with an eye towards actually protecting us instead of themselves, but they have had absolutely no issues defunding our public education systems for decades. Our education systems are just as important as our policing system, yet one gets billions of dollars in funding every year and the other barely scrapes by, using decades old textbooks, eliminating helpful after school programs and subsisting on sports rather than academics. One union is so powerful, it single-handedly has the ability to override court decisions while the other union routinely has to strike to make its voice heard and to secure the funding it needs for the system it supports to survive.

We are not a nation of critical thinkers specifically because Republicans have made sure we're not. Look at how they derided the intelligentsia, scholars and academics in this country. They feel insulted by and deride intelligence because it lays bear their own lack of it. They value brawn over brains, working harder over working smarter.

And it all comes back to a severe lack of quality in our public educational systems.

To support your point, here's republicans funded by oil companies debating a scientist on climate change.

by McLewis Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:16 pm

Yeah I remember seeing this. Thanks for sharing it. It was one of my first exposures to how Republicans view American academia. I always thought it very strange to have politicians lecturing scientists on their own fields of study yet there they were, doing exactly that.

Getting their talking points directly from oil companies is one the earliest instances of me beginning to question the role capitalism plays in government.

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:46 pm

McLewis wrote:Had we a better educational system, Trump would've been laughed out of his own building after he came down that elevator.

Republicans rail against our efforts to defund police departments so they can be rebuilt from scratch, with an eye towards actually protecting us instead of themselves, but they have had absolutely no issues defunding our public education systems for decades. Our education systems are just as important as our policing system, yet one gets billions of dollars in funding every year and the other barely scrapes by, using decades old textbooks, eliminating helpful after school programs and subsisting on sports rather than academics. One union is so powerful, it single-handedly has the ability to override court decisions while the other union routinely has to strike to make its voice heard and to secure the funding it needs for the system it supports to survive.

We are not a nation of critical thinkers specifically because Republicans have made sure we're not. Look at how they derided the intelligentsia, scholars and academics in this country. They feel insulted by and deride intelligence because it lays bear their own lack of it. They value brawn over brains, working harder over working smarter.

And it all comes back to a severe lack of quality in our public educational systems.

Again, I don't really disagree, BUT... education is largely funded at the state and local level. This is one of the items that, for me, is tough to pin down on 'Republicans' if you live in a blue state. The Feds really exercise little control over the quality of the education that a kid gets, although the little influence they do have seems to get in the way more than help.

by McLewis Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:54 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
McLewis wrote:Had we a better educational system, Trump would've been laughed out of his own building after he came down that elevator.

Republicans rail against our efforts to defund police departments so they can be rebuilt from scratch, with an eye towards actually protecting us instead of themselves, but they have had absolutely no issues defunding our public education systems for decades. Our education systems are just as important as our policing system, yet one gets billions of dollars in funding every year and the other barely scrapes by, using decades old textbooks, eliminating helpful after school programs and subsisting on sports rather than academics. One union is so powerful, it single-handedly has the ability to override court decisions while the other union routinely has to strike to make its voice heard and to secure the funding it needs for the system it supports to survive.

We are not a nation of critical thinkers specifically because Republicans have made sure we're not. Look at how they derided the intelligentsia, scholars and academics in this country. They feel insulted by and deride intelligence because it lays bear their own lack of it. They value brawn over brains, working harder over working smarter.

And it all comes back to a severe lack of quality in our public educational systems.

Again, I don't really disagree, BUT... education is largely funded at the state and local level. This is one of the items that, for me, is tough to pin down on 'Republicans' if you live in a blue state. The Feds really exercise little control over the quality of the education that a kid gets, although the little influence they do have seems to get in the way more than help.

You are indeed correct. State and local policies largely account for the funding of our educational system. Which party controls the most state legislatures and governor mansions though? Republicans. And so they get more of my ire. Don't mistake that for me saying Democrats are blameless though. They absolutely aren't. Their weakness has enabled and emboldened the Republicans to this point. At every level.

Take a "blue state" like mine, we have a Dem governor facing off with a GOP legislature. A city like Detroit, with one of the worst-funded public school systems in the country, suffers anyway. Even when Dems had control of both the Governorship and legislature, no progress was made in Detroit because the Republicans, even in the minority, always manage to find a way to make their influence felt and counted. This is why I consider the Democrat Party to be weak. They care too much about how the power they wield is perceived. It makes them ineffective. It makes them useless.

by Freeza Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:36 pm

Aren't republicans notorious for being able to get voters to vote in every single election and therefor making the policies on local levels.

Democrats afaik have been lazy getting stuff done in local politics

by Hapless_Hans Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:12 pm

Freeza wrote:Aren't republicans notorious for being able to get voters to vote in every single election and therefor making the policies on local levels.

Democrats afaik have been lazy getting stuff done in local politics

Yes. It's because Republican voters are old people and old people vote. Old white people, to be precise, who have the opportunity, time and means to go vote.

Democrats always had the problem of gettint the youth to vote who doesn't participate in such large numbers (and then of course that another part of their base, the PoC one, has to overcome all sorts of chicanery to even be able to vote if they want to)

by Myesyats Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:38 pm

McLewis wrote:Yeah I remember seeing this. Thanks for sharing it. It was one of my first exposures to how Republicans view American academia. I always thought it very strange to have politicians lecturing scientists on their own fields of study yet there they were, doing exactly that.

Getting their talking points directly from oil companies is one the earliest instances of me beginning to question the role capitalism plays in government.

so basically Republicans are undercover lobbyists paid for by oil companies and instructed to keep legislation in place which favors them and hurts any potential green deal? If you look at it this way, it's beyond comprehension why ordinary citizens would choose them as their representatives for they represent big companies and not the people themselves, quite clearly, unless you are employed by an oil company, that is.

by McLewis Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:21 am

Myesyats wrote:
McLewis wrote:Yeah I remember seeing this. Thanks for sharing it. It was one of my first exposures to how Republicans view American academia. I always thought it very strange to have politicians lecturing scientists on their own fields of study yet there they were, doing exactly that.

Getting their talking points directly from oil companies is one the earliest instances of me beginning to question the role capitalism plays in government.

so basically Republicans are undercover lobbyists paid for by oil companies and instructed to keep legislation in place which favors them and hurts any potential green deal? If you look at it this way, it's beyond comprehension why ordinary citizens would choose them as their representatives for they represent big companies and not the people themselves, quite clearly, unless you are employed by an oil company, that is.

Yeah pretty much. They're as bad about being in bed with oil companies as Democrats are with being in bed with Big Pharma.

by Babun Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:55 am

Myesyats wrote:
McLewis wrote:Yeah I remember seeing this. Thanks for sharing it. It was one of my first exposures to how Republicans view American academia. I always thought it very strange to have politicians lecturing scientists on their own fields of study yet there they were, doing exactly that.

Getting their talking points directly from oil companies is one the earliest instances of me beginning to question the role capitalism plays in government.

so basically Republicans are undercover lobbyists paid for by oil companies and instructed to keep legislation in place which favors them and hurts any potential green deal? If you look at it this way, it's beyond comprehension why ordinary citizens would choose them as their representatives for they represent big companies and not the people themselves, quite clearly, unless you are employed by an oil company, that is.

The US democracy is a disguised oligarchy in its core:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy
They fit the definition 100%. Their 2 party system and how their campaigns are driven by "donations" have to be reformed. Biden is the lesser evil but not a saint either.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:11 pm

https://www.thechicagocouncil.org/sites/default/files/Views%20of%20registered%20voters.png

Half the Republicans support the storming of the capitol Laughing

I would love to see what this poll looks like again in 4 years when people are (hopefully) not brain washed by Trump

by McLewis Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 pm

That poll goes nicely with what I found below:

My dude literally put out a campaign video on Dec 13 portraying himself as supersoldier in combat gear fighting leftists trying to take over the US government and encouraging everyone to join the fight. pic.twitter.com/qdHrbiULsA
— Mike Duncan (@mikeduncan) January 14, 2021

The GOP want "unity" because they've been defeated and have lost power. They do not want "unity" for any other reason. Tweets like the one above from Crenshaw are bullshit specifically because of how they behaved prior to the tweet.

Madison Cawthorn is another one like this. What did he say to opponents after he won election?:

this was madison cawthorn's tweet on election day but yeah, he's all about bipartisanship pic.twitter.com/cvgJFz3GDl
— Oliver Willis (@owillis) January 13, 2021

They echo the false calls of "unity" that came from the South after they were beaten in the Civil War. It comes from a place not of a genuine want to heal wounds, but as a need to be coddled after losing power. They demand magnanimity from Democrats without ever having shown any of their own when they had power. And so they deserve none. Yet Democrats will be dumb and weak enough to give them what they want....again.

by Myesyats Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:30 pm

McLewis wrote:Yet Democrats will be dumb and weak enough to give them what they want....again.

What can they do realistically though? Can they do anything else other than impeachment which they've already done twice? Republicans still have many strings to pull bts.

by McLewis Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:15 pm

Myesyats wrote:
McLewis wrote:Yet Democrats will be dumb and weak enough to give them what they want....again.

What can they do realistically though? Can they do anything else other than impeachment which they've already done twice? Republicans still have many strings to pull bts.

The best thing Democrats can do is push forward with their agenda (getting control of Covid and easing the economic pain it's causing has to be foremost) and ignore Republicans who tout the "unity" and "compromise" angle, but are using it as a Trojan horse to regain a foothold for a return to power.

As I said, Republicans are pushing this narrative because they are defeated and now powerless. They fear the consequences of such a state and they should. Democrats can show strength by ignoring the GOP on the sidelines and just focusing on what needs to be done. They won't though. It's not what Biden ran on. That gives the GOP their foothold.

And so Republicans will run the same playbook they ran on Obama during his first 2 years: Feign "unity and compromise", derail the agenda at every turn, and then use it to sweep the midterms and retake Congress.

And the Democrats won't see it coming. History always repeats itself.

by McLewis Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:34 am

As the election is over. I'm locking this thread.

Any post-election thoughts can now be discussed in the new US Politics thread.

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