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Post by JespSwe Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:27 am

@Robespierre wrote:
@JespSwe wrote:
@rincon wrote:No chance Pioli goes to Juve. He isnt on the radar.

bro ... just a feeling ; dont take this for real   Very Happy

just a allegri like move felt in my head but again dont take this as a statement though Thumbs up


I still don't rate Pioli
for me Milan should change him even after this great streak . We know who is Pioli ,he's an average coach that wins a good number of matches when they're useless ( made same at Inter )but when level gets up ... he melts.
About Ragnick, you've the  benefit of the doubt at least. And he could give you good players

regardless of pioli or not ; i think its important that rangnick steps in - our club have made too much mistakes bringing in wrong players or players staying for too long hiding when they needed to be casted out. i dont believe in pioli that much too ; team started performing after covid and  under ibra and as soon as he leaves we will go back to old shit reality that pioli cant fix because end ot the day current management aren't willing to take ownership to issues.

rangnick would be great i think because latented young players would feel like they feel much safer and trust him if he comes to milan. thats good start ; change is needed, i understand stabiliy concerns on how pioli has been doing great but i won't be fooled by this team how bad this team is to the core and except few players for 3-4 seasons now.

the only positives is that team has no pressure as we got little to nothing much to play for really hence they are playing as if they got nothing to loose. pioli was brough as temp fix by current mangement ; only thing that will make me trust pioli is if rangnick is willing to work closely with him and both work on bringing quality players because we have got a big dilemma in hand on fundamental issues with defence, midfield, and attack.

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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:43 am

Must have missed an episode here scratch a club of this standing, you would expect more ambition

The other day i had to google who is even Rangnick, a guy who builds cute teams on the cheap, coached second tier clubs in Germany and was never related to calcio in any way shape or form. Most prestigious trophy in career is a DFB-Pokal in 2011. But all of a sudden, at 62 years old, we realize he was a hidden diamond and give him the keys to AC Milan ?

Don't hesitate to correct my ignorance if needed, to me it's quite absurd, a roll of the dice
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Post by JespSwe Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:13 am

@Warrior wrote:Must have missed an episode here scratch a club of this standing, you would expect more ambition

The other day i had to google who is even Rangnick, a guy who builds cute teams on the cheap, coached second tier clubs in Germany and was never related to calcio in any way shape or form. Most prestigious trophy in career is a DFB-Pokal in 2011. But all of a sudden, at 62 years old, we realize he was a hidden diamond and give him the keys to AC Milan ?

Don't hesitate to correct my ignorance if needed, to me it's quite absurd, a roll of the dice


then this begs the question the same as who was allegri before he came to milan and what did he achieve ?

rangnick profile is much much better in terms of how he brought the RB football franchise to the frame. no one cared about RB ambitions previously and now they are one of the most talked football club in europe - thanks to rangnick.

now its true, its a huge gamble if i have to choose between trusting the same players (except ibra, theo, donnarumma, and few others) i better prefer someone who can bring most sought footballing talents.

there wont be any excuse for rangnick if he fails miserably, he probably is aware what is at stakes by signing up ; there are lot of fundamental issues to fix with this team and if anyone is better at doing it its rangnick
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:30 am

Allegri had Serie A credentials before Milan hired him

Yes RB Leipzig is encouraging signs, but can he replicate that in the context of a historic club ? Anyway i don't want to kill your enthusiasm, he's not even taken the job yet, everyone deserves a chance. Those countless rebuilds i see them with a touch of cynism, to be polite, but maybe this time it will work

We are to the point i wish Milan comes back to a top tier level. It's become boring to have Lazios and Napolis as challengers. They lack the intrinsic charisma of Milan and may i say Inter. You guys beat us the other day and i wasn't even mad Laughing does not help that Juve plays like bland bs
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Post by JespSwe Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:48 am

@Warrior wrote:Allegri had Serie A credentials before Milan hired him

Yes RB Leipzig is encouraging signs, but can he replicate that in the context of a historic club ? Anyway i don't want to kill your enthusiasm, he's not even taken the job yet, everyone deserves a chance. Those countless rebuilds i see them with a touch of cynism, to be polite, but maybe this time it will work

We are to the point i wish Milan comes back to a top tier level. It's become boring to have Lazios and Napolis as challengers. They lack the intrinsic charisma of Milan and may i say Inter. You guys beat us the other day and i wasn't even mad Laughing does not help that Juve plays like bland bs


yes and w/ allegri we also gambled knowing he came from cagliari. Allegri had lost scudetto in 2011. just look at results just end of first half of 2011. milan was 3rd or something, and falling falling fast, slow midfield was leaking goals, defensive issues and what not and out of desperation galliani brought van bommel which brought much needed steel and our second half season was much better. allegri then was a gamble for us too, then he won then rest is history.

but can he replicate that in the context of a historic club ?
- that's the responsibility he has to take, he has to get that full conscience in himself what he is up against. not just milan, but media, fans, the expectations, everything on foreign soil.


..  wish Milan comes back to a top tier level. It's become boring to have Lazios and Napolis as challengers. They lack the intrinsic charisma of Milan and may i say Inter. You guys beat us the other day and i wasn't even mad Laughing does not help that Juve plays like bland bs

- yes i want milan to come back and come back strong so that we can put healthy challenges on you guys. i m not even actually first sold on rangnick. it hurts to see clubs like lazio being up or atalanta (everyone say this is good for italian football) yes it is but it hurts being milan fan and thinking we should have been that team. but im fed up with same lies our management old or new - they keep on saying oh this milan squad is good enough to finish top 4 next season. CL is possible ..
and im tired of how our team is always rallied and backup-ed by former players, media, reporters even after years and years of same bs and failures of not acknowledging issues - just bunch of softies around ... saying we need patience with this club,  players need time.

even now pro milan media, journalists, former players, coaches saying oh milan are playing well now, they forget that this team can't be trusted and not long ago this was the same team whose asses were handed by atalanta big time and they were having parties with still few minutes to play.
i still don't trust this team to the core for next season, and i am convinced that if management, coach remains the same, the club remains the same the players will remain the same. no offense but its not the first time it has happened.
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:26 pm

Who is the biggest gamble Allegri 2011 or Rangnick 2020 is another debate, i say the latter based on calcio experience. But Allegri i compare as if you guys hired Gasperini tomorrow... yes still a gamble

Apart from that, it seems we agree on the risks of Rangnick, just the stance we take is different. Explained by the clubs supported respectively

The answer to all your problems is as simple as buying proven quality players, no need to be a genius to realize this. Whatever the context a club like Milan has no excuse for lowering the standards. Going the moneyball way but with big budget and no lucidity in player evaluation... quite deluded Laughing
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Post by JespSwe Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:52 pm

@Warrior wrote:Who is the biggest gamble Allegri 2011 or Rangnick 2020 is another debate, i say the latter based on calcio experience. But Allegri i compare as if you guys hired Gasperini tomorrow... yes still a gamble

Apart from that, it seems we agree on the risks of Rangnick, just the stance we take is different. Explained by the clubs supported respectively

The answer to all your problems is as simple as buying proven quality players, no need to be a genius to realize this. Whatever the context a club like Milan has no excuse for lowering the standards. Going the moneyball way but with big budget and no lucidity in player evaluation... quite deluded Laughing


yep, and actually its only right that people would question rangnick with no experience in italy and it would be sweet if rangnick would go out, get down to work and get to show good results.


the thing u mentioned above is what i want above anything else but the opposite is happening and happening for too long. every fans in the corner of the world knows - the problem is lack of quality whether its current players or bringing anyone in.

This club is more drawn to media, agents, former players, gossips more than their own homework with scouting on quality players, and too blind to see all the madness and insanity that is going around. i mean more than half of team doesn't even deserve to be milan - it is as simple as that.

I see Inter, i see them doing what it takes to get the club to upward trend. The way that marotta came in and took absolutely no bs from anyone is what we need in this club really ; and I am begging I am praying to god that Rangnick is that guy.

No matter what happens from now until end of the season, this team can't be trusted for next season even if they were to win all the games.
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:16 pm

One of the most dinosaur thing to do in Football of course involves old successful coaches and players who will push their fellow colleague to succeed further at a club. By this example it could be Allardyce having hypothetical success if he overtake LFC mid season (Art's dream) to in this case Pioli having moderately good results with Milan.


Just because he has steadied the ship now does not mean he will succeed with the far higher expectations of next season, to which isn't just cleaning up after Giampaolo's mess.


Many variables are included such as Zlatan's play and presence to post China virus luck.

Ragnick I like but I simply do not like for what he represents for us but that's been done already.


Pioli is and must be remembered well for us but he while being quite simply a good coach, is just not good enough for Milan and their goals.
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Post by JespSwe Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:54 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:One of the most dinosaur thing to do in Football of course involves old successful coaches and players who will push their fellow colleague to succeed further at a club. By this example it could be Allardyce having hypothetical success if he overtake LFC mid season (Art's dream) to in this case Pioli having moderately good results with Milan.


Just because he has steadied the ship now does not mean he will succeed with the far higher expectations of next season, to which isn't just cleaning up after Giampaolo's mess.


Many variables are included such as Zlatan's play and presence to post China virus luck.

Ragnick I like but I simply do not like for what he represents for us but that's been done already.


Pioli is and must be remembered well for us but he while being quite simply a good coach, is just not good enough for Milan and their goals.


yep Capello just did that saying - Rangnick has won unimportant things in Germany lol - hinting that he backs current management, coach XD

Pioli is giving me like second thoughts atm, I have to say I am not too familiar to depth on his previous work in other teams lol ; i think he did good keeping stability and set foundation for a team, I see feel as if it has more to do with atm we got nothing to loose, nothing important to play for, and w/ Ibra's setting standards in the team its coming good but it feels sort term fix.

I am worried like you said, that just because we have good runs now doesn't mean he or our team has a whole will succeed for next season.

i understand your concern about rangnick - new guy, puts lot of faith in youth to total control to sporting aspects from top to bottom, u must be concerned about level of authority he will in unprecedented level ; its good that these are being questioned.

for me with rangnick is about leap of faith that he is the one that can bring good to the club because i still can't see how the current management can do that. It could go either way it could go well or it could go horribly wrong.

i am still thinking therefore I want to believe that rangnick will be a good addition.

mannn i am in sooo much heat than any milan fans here XD being so pro-rangnick supporter. Imagine if rangnick fails spectacularly, ya all will love to chew my ass until there is nothing left Very Happy
this is going to be very nervous summer for me
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:46 pm

@Warrior wrote:Must have missed an episode here scratch a club of this standing, you would expect more ambition

The other day i had to google who is even Rangnick, a guy who builds cute teams on the cheap, coached second tier clubs in Germany and was never related to calcio in any way shape or form. Most prestigious trophy in career is a DFB-Pokal in 2011. But all of a sudden, at 62 years old, we realize he was a hidden diamond and give him the keys to AC Milan ?

Don't hesitate to correct my ignorance if needed, to me it's quite absurd, a roll of the dice


Well, it does seem as you don't quite know what Rangnick is and does, as describing him as "having coached 2nd tier teams", while technically correct, is missing the point of the projects he was hired to do.

He was easily the most effective manager Schalke have had in the last 20 years (and Schalke ruins every manager, it's an impossible job, right before Rangnick was hired for his first spell, a certain Jupp Heynckes had failed pathetically..), and then he was tasked to oversee big investment projects of building up clubs with billionare money. Basically, he was tasked to do projects of "ambition" (so that, ahem, might be the difference to other coaches Milan have or could hire..)

First he build the club Hoffenheim with the money of billionaire Dietmar Hopp. Hoffenheim is basically a village, Hopp played in the club as a kid and then later decided to become its sugar daddy with the  billions from his SAP software company which is located nearby.

Rangnick led Hoffenheim, which had risen to 3rd tier from lowest village level over 10 years with Hopp's backing, from 3rd tier to Bundesliga to much fanfare, with a tactically coherehnt and astute pressing approach and rigoroously strategic squad building. They caused quite a stir in the old-fashioned BuLi of the 2000s, and they roughed up the competition in their first season, being tied for 1st with us at times (think they beat us too)
The Hoffenheim that everyone knows now (I had not heard the name before 2007), exists basically through Rangnick in terms of sports (Hopp of course in terms of money).

Then, he did the exct same thing again with RB Leipzig.

Austrian company Red Bull, with billionaire Mateschitz at the helm, took over a broke 5th tier Leipzig club and refounded it as RB Leipzig, they hired Rangnick to oversee the project, at times as DoF, at times he took over coaching duties himself, at times he was responsible for the whole RB football franchise.

The result is the same, a CL level club that was strategically built up with coherent tactics based on 4-4-2 pressing (basically Simeone style) and a coherent recruitment strategy (until they'd reached European spots they signed only U21 top talents with a wage cap of 3m).

That is why he is linked with Milan, because he knows how to run a club coherently.
Whether it works at a historic club like Milan, where there's a lot of expectation and old heroes giving their input, instead of a synthetic club from the retort where he's the uncontested boss, is a good question.
Whether he can translate his expertise without too much friction loss into the environment of Italy and the Serie A, is another.
That's also why it all depends on the setup, the timeframe, and the expectations. I'm a bit puzzle d because clearly his focus in last years has been on DoF level, not on the training pitch, and I wonder what kind of manager job he's really supposed to be doing.

As a coach, he is still good apparently. He took over in between Hasenhüttl and Nagelsmann for a year and I thought it would be a recipe for disaster (the long term DoF stepping in, with the players knowing he's just interim, what happens if the results are bad?), but they got CL quali without a problem. And top 4 spots are very contested in BuLi.

Insufferable, annoying person btw.
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Post by Robespierre Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:59 pm

Well, he had won twice against Inter ( in that incredible 2-5, and 2-1 on 2nd leg )
Perhaps he can break the Derby complexes for Milan
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:04 pm

@Robespierre wrote:Well, he had won twice against Inter ( in that incredible 2-5, and 2-1 on 2nd leg )
Perhaps he can break the Derby complexes for Milan


think that might've been Magath? hmm
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:09 pm

Thanks man

Rangnick's profile is more clear now, certainly
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:16 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:Well, he had won twice against Inter ( in that incredible 2-5, and 2-1 on 2nd leg )
Perhaps he can break the Derby complexes for Milan


think that might've been Magath? hmm


Nope you're right Robes, they played Inter in quarters under Rangnick right after they fired Magath who got them there... Schalke...
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:29 pm

I have Schalke jersey, it's one of my favorites

Calcio Saga 19/20 - Page 38 8073e710
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:52 pm

What's the banana for, to throw at Balotelli?
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:10 pm

Because otherwise you'd see the inside of the jersey, the reverse of the back's collar design which is unesthetic. If you try to hide with the front it looks weird.

Thankfully this beautiful banana was the closest object banana
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:11 pm

Wow. What a terrible mistake by the keeper
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Post by rincon Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:01 am

Dont see how the comparison with Allegri is being made.

Allegri was coach of the year in Serie A before Milan. Winning it with Cagliari over Mou's inter.

It is also, most importantly, not Rangnick vs Allegri. Allegri was just the coach. Its Rangnick vs Allegri + Galliani.

I agree with the point of Warrior's first post. Giving that much control of a club like Milan to Gazidis and Rangnick seems I'll advised, Gazidis is so unpopular, and Rangnick with no Serie A experience getting such a large double job at Milan. A downgrade of ambition.

The winning teams in the league have been made by a long term DS ambition, paired with the short term tenure of a good coach. Sabatini, Marotta, Paratici, Tare, Guintoli, etc. better to separate the roles in order to give a stable vision. Rangnick as a DS, coupled with a coach would be more sensible imo.
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Post by JespSwe Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:17 am

@rincon wrote:Dont see how the comparison with Allegri is being made.

Allegri was coach of the year in Serie A before Milan. Winning it with Cagliari over Mou's inter.

It is also, most importantly, not Rangnick vs Allegri. Allegri was just the coach. Its Rangnick vs Allegri + Galliani.

I agree with the point of Warrior's first post. Giving that much control of a club like Milan to Gazidis and Rangnick seems I'll advised, Gazidis is so unpopular, and Rangnick with no Serie A experience getting such a large double job at Milan. A downgrade of ambition.

The winning teams in the league have been made by a long term DS ambition, paired with the short term tenure of a good coach. Sabatini, Marotta, Paratici, Tare, Guintoli, etc. better to separate the roles in order to give a stable vision. Rangnick as a DS, coupled with a coach would be more sensible imo.


allegri was not even popular coach of preference amongst milan fans then. certainly atlesat for me he isn't the best even now.
we will see in time if rangnick arrival is the best decision or not.

there has been lot of mistakes that for me it is a necessary change. i dont care about gazidis, i only care what rangnick brings on the table and i am convinced by his work at RB.
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Post by JespSwe Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:24 am

that was quite a great intel in depth @hans thanks!
i wasn't familiar of his work at Hoffenhiem, Schalke 04 to some degree, we had met them also in CL. RB brand in football is probably the biggest one, and this i tell because i knew that they had RB Salzburg for a really long time but the start wasn't a significant one they did win and used to participate in CL.

i appreciate the input in RB leipzig one cuz I wasn't familiar with it although i am not surprised because Dietrich Mateschitz has done the same in F1 by hiring Helmut Marko and pretty much assigning him to get who he wants what he wants in terms of big name personnel and facilities, technologies. Seems he sort of did similar things by assigning Rangnick at RB. Now they have brought 3-4 teams (RB Salzburg, Leipzig, RB NY, and i think there is another one) to the frame. It is good to know the profile that rangnick has expanded on and I would be pleased to see him in Milan not really make huge change but a important one and i believe he will be the right person to do so.
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Post by JespSwe Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:31 am

Good to see Milan playing well, surprised actually seeing Milan beat Bologona 5-1!
was surprised why Musa Barrow didn't play would have been a big concern at the back but the ball movement, off-ball movement by team was a joy to see, and again kjaer being very calm at the back. Good to see team playing good football and they seem to enjoy this.

Could have been a lot more from our guys, actually their keeper saved quite a lot of em. That goal by Tomiyasu was amazing but again Romagnoli dunno what happened to him this season he used to chase players and do a nesta like slides, this one was like repeats of cheap goals that romagnoli should have easily stopped.

Rebic, Bennacer, Calhanouglu, Theo was killer this game, especially rebic looks so ruthless! love his attitude when it comes to winning or scoring.

Still i dont trust this team for next season Very Happy
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Post by M99 Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:28 pm

Calcio heads will scoff at anyone outside of Serie A unless its Pep or Klopp I guess.

Rangnick is the most legit coach we ever got since Allegri. He is much more qualified for this job and a better manager than Montella, Giampaolo, Pioli or the host of former players we employed. I don't agree with Gazidiss vision for the club, he wants to make us a Roma, buy and develop young players and sell them for profit later. But right now the most most pressing need is to be a Champions League club again and stability. And Rangnick is good enough to provide that. He can create a good team in the long term with his vision and his tactics. What Gazidis will do with the club in the long term is what concerns me.
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Post by rincon Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:34 pm

You misunderstand me if you are referring to me. It's not that he is german, it's that he is both sporting director and coach. Instead of having one role. Coupling this with Gazidis is a problem too.

Like I said, better to decouple the roles so as to have a long term sporting project that is not only tied to your coach. Get Rangnick + the right complementary figure.

So what happens if Rangnick doesnt get the sporting results? Sack him, and lose you DS as well? So you are back to year 0 again, and Gazidis remains the only "stabilizing" figure at the club, which is worrying. It's a big gamble to put Milan in their hands like this.
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Post by M99 Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:49 pm

Its a risk but Rangnick is as qualified for this than any unemployed sporting director or former players right now. Marotta is not leaving Inter for us so we have to be realistic. We should have broke the bank for Conte or Sarri last year but instead we got a provinciale hack. Right now Rangnick is one of the best options for us as a coach, and we desperately need long term stability after the revolving door of managers post Allegri. He is a risk as a director but a guy with a history of building teams and making them successful projects is a good option. Not at all does hiring him is making us less ambitious.
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Calcio Saga 19/20 - Page 38 Empty Re: Calcio Saga 19/20

Post by JespSwe Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:55 pm

@rincon wrote:You misunderstand me if you are referring to me. It's not that he is german, it's that he is both sporting director and coach. Instead of having one role. Coupling this with Gazidis is a problem too.

Like I said, better to decouple the roles so as to have a long term sporting project that is not only tied to your coach. Get Rangnick + the right complementary figure.

So what happens if Rangnick doesnt get the sporting results? Sack him, and lose you DS as well? So you are back to year 0 again, and Gazidis remains the only "stabilizing" figure at the club, which is worrying. It's a big gamble to put Milan in their hands like this.


tbh since we have been same with little to no progress with our current management i am ok with rangnick spearheading something different.
btw nothing is signed and sealed, rangnick for sure if he joins the club will definitely take over director role, as for coach, there has been talk about naglesmann as a coach eyed but i dont think its going to happen that being said - there has been new talks about if pioli - rangnick relationship could or would continue.

So what happens if Rangnick doesnt get the sporting results? Sack him, and lose you DS as well? - thats the risk Gordon Singer is willing to take. I dont think we are going to go anything WORSE than this season or season before really. that being said, risk is worth a take for me, especially with Rangnick's profile I am ok with where it goes.

problem is as m99 rightly said gazidis making calls on buying talents, developing and selling before we could hit a good heights.
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